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re: At this point, which liberty is more important?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:30 am to JesusQuintana
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:30 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Here we have a man on the federal terror watch list now down 50 people with a LEGALLY OBTAINED assault rifle and these gun zealots flat out refuse to even entertain the possibility that we might have a problem. fricking drives me nuts.
A person intent on killing will kill, doesnt matter the tool. Did the gun force him to kill or did his ideology make him kill.
Instead of focusing on what the cause was, you focus and deflect on something else and want to talk about deflection and zealots
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:32 am to The Spleen
quote:
Well, it's harder to get enough bomb materials to cause as much carnage as the gun did in Orlando
Actually its not and that is pretty scary
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:33 am to JesusQuintana
quote:this exactly.
He was able to, of course, due to intense lobbying by the NRA to block any reasonable gun control laws from being put into place.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:33 am to NYCAuburn
Bad people do bad shite. Radical Islamic terrorist are a massive problem and we must filing a way to stamp them out.
See, it's not that hard.
Your turn...
See, it's not that hard.
Your turn...
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:35 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
Steps to buy a gun in Florida. 1) Get a concealed carry permit, which involves a background check and testing. 2) Go to a gun store, fill out ATF form 4473 and get background checked again.
My question simply is, should he have gotten a ding on a background check if he was on a federal watch list and No Fly list?
And when you say no (because someone will say no because of criteria for the watchlist/lack of transparency), then how do we prevent what happened yesterday when he was a U.S. citizen?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:37 am to BluegrassBelle
Except you do not need a concealed carry permit to simply buy a gun
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:39 am to 3nOut
What about our rights as described by the 4th Ammendment? Do we really unleash the data gathering monsters? If any freedom is a casualty of events like this, our rights under the 4th will be first.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:39 am to The Spleen
quote:
Someone starts buying enough explosives to do what Tim McVeigh did, and the FBI is swooping in on them with a quickness.
Tim McVeigh's bomb was made with ammonium nitrate fertilizer and diesel fuel.
20 pounds of it will blow your house apart and you can drive right down to the feed store and buy a ton of it without having to fill out a single form. Unless you're speaking Arabic and the the guy loading it decides to drop a dime on you, not one single FBI agent is swooping down on anyone.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:41 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Here we have a man on the federal terror watch list now down 50 people with a LEGALLY OBTAINED assault rifle and these gun zealots flat out refuse to even entertain the possibility that we might have a problem. fricking drives me nuts
This dude had weapons authorization above civilian level and worked for a large security firm. He passed two background checks. He would have passed any gun control policies that could ever be passed in the United States. I can't imagine that would be the case (especially him working for a security firm) had his terrorist links been widely known.
IMO, this calls into question just how readily available information on Islamic terror watch lists is from the Feds for the purposes of background checks. That gets into a possible discrimination thing that I'm sure the Obama administration would want no part of.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:44 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
This dude had weapons authorization above civilian level and worked for a large security firm. He passed two background checks. He would have passed any gun control policies that could ever be passed in the United States. I can't imagine that would be the case (especially him working for a security firm) had his terrorist links been widely known.
IMO, this calls into question just how readily available information on Islamic terror watch lists is from the Feds for the purposes of background checks. That gets into a possible discrimination thing that I'm sure the Obama administration would want no part of.
They'll completely those parts of the story. They can't let a fact get in the way of using a tragedy to push an agenda.
His employer is a DHS contractor, he'd been flagged twice, and he still had that job.
That, not the gun, should be what people find terrifying.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:46 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
My question simply is, should he have gotten a ding on a background check if he was on a federal watch list and No Fly list?
And when you say no (because someone will say no because of criteria for the watchlist/lack of transparency), then how do we prevent what happened yesterday when he was a U.S. citizen?
IMO, he absolutely should have been dinged but as Crow pointed out he wasn't just a legal gun buyer, he had an even higher level of approval. Something is very, very wrong with that picture.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:49 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Bad people do bad shite. Radical Islamic terrorist are a massive problem and we must filing a way to stamp them out.
See, it's not that hard.
I agree. See, not that hard to point the finger at the actual cause and not your personal fears/agenda on guns
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:52 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
how do we prevent what happened yesterday when he was a U.S. citizen?
We stop worrying about trying to prevent it and figure out how to let civilians defend themselves when it happens. Publicize the hell out of cases where an armed civilian takes down a shooter and that will help in the prevention.
Yes, that means the dregs of society will kill more of each other every day because of looser gun laws.
I am fine with that trade.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:52 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
I agree. See, not that hard to point the finger at the actual cause and not your personal fears/agenda on guns
i think he'd do better at ruffling feathers on the PoliBoard.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:52 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Except you do not need a concealed carry permit to simply buy a gun
From a private seller, no but he apparently bought his from a dealer so those are the steps he followed.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:54 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
IMO, he absolutely should have been dinged but as Crow pointed out he wasn't just a legal gun buyer, he had an even higher level of approval. Something is very, very wrong with that picture.
Which is crazy. How do I get delayed/dinged every time because of a "fight" I was involved in, while managing a bar in Auburn years ago. I had to kick a customer out and a massive brawl erupted. Yet this guy has no issues.
I have no problem with proper checks and balances, but the all out campaign on the gun itself is mind "bottling"
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:56 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
This dude had weapons authorization above civilian level and worked for a large security firm. He passed two background checks. He would have passed any gun control policies that could ever be passed in the United States. I can't imagine that would be the case (especially him working for a security firm) had his terrorist links been widely known.
IMO, this calls into question just how readily available information on Islamic terror watch lists is from the Feds for the purposes of background checks. That gets into a possible discrimination thing that I'm sure the Obama administration would want no part of
Now, consider this...
The current POTUS told us just a few months ago that we should all feel secure letting Islamic refugees in this country because they would be vetted by the FBI.
We will be safe with all the refugees coming over because we will check their backgrounds!
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:57 am to NYCAuburn
But is hard (impossible) for you to admit that a man on a federal terrorist watch list should not be able to buy guns.
I promise if you do that Odummer will not personally be on your door step to clean out your armory.
I promise if you do that Odummer will not personally be on your door step to clean out your armory.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:57 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
He was able to, of course, due to intense lobbying by the NRA to block any reasonable gun control laws from being put into place.
i assume that you hold all lobbyists to the same standard?
Posted on 6/13/16 at 9:57 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Nothing that should have stopped it?
He was on the federal terrorist watch list and also a no fly list. If that is not grounds for prohibiting from buying an assault rifle then I don't know what could ever be.
Political correctness prevents us from doing the right thing, profiling people who need profiling.
It's time to do away with this disease called political correctness and properly take action when people have associations, make radical comments, or perform acts that require them to be profiled.
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