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X and O on how to stop JFF. What would consultants/coach types say
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:33 pm
Hoping for coaching types here that know more than me about xs and os. Serious discussion.
It seems to me you spy a linebacker. You keep from breaking on him too fast from the DL - but this gives more time so win loss. Obviously I feel Saban is thinking of stopping that spinning out of the pocket thing he does. But..
If you bring to much attention to his scramble instead of scooting a 12 yd run at the flag for a first he pulls up because of impact before the first and hits rb or other trailing wr in the gap.
It seems like this is the kind of thing A&M is working on.
Thoughts?
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
If you don't spy and pay special attention to his scramble its trouble also. Plus our Rbs are loaded and Malena is onions catching from backfield.
It seems to me you spy a linebacker. You keep from breaking on him too fast from the DL - but this gives more time so win loss. Obviously I feel Saban is thinking of stopping that spinning out of the pocket thing he does. But..
If you bring to much attention to his scramble instead of scooting a 12 yd run at the flag for a first he pulls up because of impact before the first and hits rb or other trailing wr in the gap.
It seems like this is the kind of thing A&M is working on.
Thoughts?
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
If you don't spy and pay special attention to his scramble its trouble also. Plus our Rbs are loaded and Malena is onions catching from backfield.
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Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:36 pm to WreckingCrue
quote:
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
LSU and UF didn't seem to have that much trouble..
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:37 pm to WreckingCrue
No spies just don't break contain.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:37 pm to WreckingCrue
Problem with spy linebacker is if they are in the middle, they won't be fast enough to keep him from turning the corner.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:39 pm to WreckingCrue
Whatever LSU did last year. Do that.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:39 pm to WreckingCrue
Keep him between the tackles and stay gap sound. Don't rush up the field! Make him a pocket passer as much as possible.
Cover the receivers and tackle them immediately. No missed tackles!
Cover the receivers and tackle them immediately. No missed tackles!
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:53 pm to WreckingCrue
Florida got lucky and caught Manziel before he really had a grasp of what was going on. They play any other week of the season, Texas A&M wins running away, especially Bowl season.
LSU on the other hand used scheme and athleticism. Start with a 4-2-5, but they were too aggressive... they switched to a 3-2-6 with their outside corners playing really shallow zones.
LSU on the other hand used scheme and athleticism. Start with a 4-2-5, but they were too aggressive... they switched to a 3-2-6 with their outside corners playing really shallow zones.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
The defensive limemen have to push the OLine back into Manziel. They have to stay in their lanes, meanign keep the pocket, but make the pocket collapse around Manziel, so he can't duck outsied. MUCH harder to do than it sounds. I would also have a LB spy Manziel and sit and wait on him to break from the pocket, because he will, eventually. But the main thing is muddying up the pocket by pushing his OLine back into him. You really don't care if you sack him so much as keep him in the pocket. most mobile QBs just don't feel as comfortable in the pocket and their accuracy seems to suffer.
Key...you just want to keep him in the pocket without giving him all day. You will get to him, but not as much as you want. You mainly want him to FEEL like he is being pressured.
Key...you just want to keep him in the pocket without giving him all day. You will get to him, but not as much as you want. You mainly want him to FEEL like he is being pressured.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
Don't pressure him with anyone but 4 down linemen. Put your fastest LBs in the game. Play zone with underneath coverage and flats. Play contain on the DL.
That's about it. A&M's response is running the football and play-action pass.
That's about it. A&M's response is running the football and play-action pass.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
i just hope saban hired a consultant.
Now I'm really worried
Now I'm really worried
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:59 pm to WreckingCrue
Pray he can't play because you can't defend a running quarterback who can also pass well and is surrounded by tons of talent.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:08 pm to WreckingCrue
Set up autograph signing booths on both sidelines.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:10 pm to WreckingCrue
It's simple for Bama this year. Spy Mosley. Keep HaHa deep to take away the deep ball. Belue/Fulton have to play tight on WRs and stay disciplined, if the play is lasting forever they can't turn back to Manziel, they gotta watch the WRs.
DL just has to push up the middle and keep contain on the outside. Sunseri will roam.
DL just has to push up the middle and keep contain on the outside. Sunseri will roam.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:15 pm to WreckingCrue
Almost all of the replies seem to be based on the JFF 2012 model (and I'm not sure those ideas would work, either). But he's obviously a better passer this year - mostly staying in the pocket and throwinng perfect 20-40 yard passes. And if that doesn't work: Ben Malena, Tra Carson, Trey Williams, Brandon Williams. I don't think any Aggie is worried about the offense.
It's the other side of the ball with McCarron-to-Cooper and Yeldon running that has us drinking.
It's the other side of the ball with McCarron-to-Cooper and Yeldon running that has us drinking.
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:16 pm to WreckingCrue
helmet to the kneecap, problem solved.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:41 pm to WreckingCrue
Ideally, assuming you could scheme it, you would like to have pressure from the middle and contain on the outside. If you pressure too aggressively from the perimeter, you're going to create seams for him to run through. Secondly, you have to blend your coverage with more zone concepts than usual because the Aggy route tree can run off a lot of defenders in man and John Football can make a defense pay by running in the void that is created.
It is a tough task, but you want to pressure inside out or you want to "run him" toward your contain if you are coming from the perimeter.
It is a tough task, but you want to pressure inside out or you want to "run him" toward your contain if you are coming from the perimeter.
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 5:42 pm to WreckingCrue
Last year, Florida played press man with their corners and used a lot of spyies, blitzes and very shallow zones in the second half. Manziel simply wasn't a good passer yet and we couldn't open up the playbook.
Against LSU, Manziel was an improved passer but was still a freshman making is sixth career start. We moved the ball but LSU going to three down linemen and playing to make Manziel beat them throwing was smart. Even then, most of our miscues were receivers dropping balls, running the wrong routes and kickers missing FGs/XPs. Manziel played well enough to beat LSU even that early on.
Neither strategy would work nearly as well now that he is a very, very good pocket passer. If you make him beat you in the pocket, he can do that now.
Against LSU, Manziel was an improved passer but was still a freshman making is sixth career start. We moved the ball but LSU going to three down linemen and playing to make Manziel beat them throwing was smart. Even then, most of our miscues were receivers dropping balls, running the wrong routes and kickers missing FGs/XPs. Manziel played well enough to beat LSU even that early on.
Neither strategy would work nearly as well now that he is a very, very good pocket passer. If you make him beat you in the pocket, he can do that now.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 6:32 pm to WreckingCrue
quote:
WreckingCrue
Nickel or Dime base D
Bring a safety into the box as a spy
Play single high man defense
Your DE's and DT's play gap control
Most important thing is DO NOT over pursue with the DL
Honestly, there is no way to STOP JFF. What I listed above is how to make him beat you with his arm. Obviously, it takes some good CB's to be able to do that, but not all teams have that luxury.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 6:33 pm to WreckingCrue
Keep contain and pressure up the middle.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 8:04 pm to WreckingCrue
quote:
Hoping for coaching types here that know more than me about xs and os. Serious discussion.
Fox and hound defense. Bring Pressure from one side with intent on flushing JFF into the "hunters." I am sure we will never know but I thought that is what Chavis did last year. Either that or very disciplined mush rush with containment on the ends with tight coverage. He will get impatient and throw into coverage. Not easy to do either way.
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