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Where is all the talent we've recruited (or is it something larger)?

Posted on 9/10/23 at 3:23 pm
Posted by bamabonners
Alabama
Member since Nov 2015
4964 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 3:23 pm
We've had all these great recruiting classes. We should be deep... QB room, o line, WR,etc.... Where the hell are they all? Is the center rolling bowling balls the best we have? Is this big slow O line the best we have? The lack of pass rush - is that the best talent we have at edge? OR do we have a larger issue with our coaches/scheme? Or are we trying to play an outdated offense/defense scheme?

This post was edited on 9/10/23 at 3:25 pm
Posted by FairhopeTider
Fairhope, Alabama
Member since May 2012
22406 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 3:27 pm to
Staff turnover finally caught up to Saban. Player development isn’t what it once was.
Posted by CrimsonBuddha
Member since Apr 2023
625 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 3:37 pm to
Here's a theory:

Maybe HS player development has gotten a lot better across the board, and leveled out - in other words - tons of HS players playing at relatively the same level

All I know is that we used to win games because of a MASSIVE talent advantage.

We used to have a RB room with 3-4 future NFL starters, for example.

We just haven't had that sort of MASSIVE talent advantage in a while. The rest of the cfb world has caught up to us in that repsect
Posted by CrimsonCrusade
Member since Jan 2014
5689 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

We just haven't had that sort of MASSIVE talent advantage in a while. The rest of the cfb world has caught up to us in that repsect


If so, it's all about development, because Alabama's edge in recruiting over the average team is actually larger now than it used to be according to the metrics the recruiting services use. This current team has multiple classes on it that were touted as statistically the greatest ever when they signed.
Posted by CrimsonBuddha
Member since Apr 2023
625 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

edge in recruiting over the average team is actually larger now than it used to be according to the metrics the recruiting services use.

Yeah my point is that there's a lot more parity amongst players coming out of HS these days - especially at skill positions

It's not development. We used to have WRs and RBs come in as true freshmen and tear it up. It could be missed evaluations or something else idk
This post was edited on 9/10/23 at 7:37 pm
Posted by UhOhOreo
Los Angeles
Member since Jul 2014
3302 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 8:24 pm to
Texas has just as much talent and a quarterback

We didn't have a quarterback
Posted by bamabonners
Alabama
Member since Nov 2015
4964 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 8:25 pm to
QB didn't play offensive line or DE. There's more going on than just QB...
This post was edited on 9/10/23 at 8:26 pm
Posted by UsingUpAllTheLetters
Member since Jul 2004
Member since Aug 2011
9372 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

QB didn't play offensive line or DE. There's more going on than just QB...
Texas also has a pretty cohesive staff and philosophy on both sides of the ball; there's no confusion as to what sort of player they are targeting in recruiting/portal. That fricking monster 6-7 defensive end ( Burke) they had was a 3 star. I remember when Alabama's recruiting was known not just for getting kids that carried a recruiting service's highest honors, but also finding those kinds of gems.
Posted by UASports23
Basketball School
Member since Nov 2009
26106 posts
Posted on 9/10/23 at 8:40 pm to
We don't have coaches like Bo Davis, Joe Pendry, Kyle Flood, Mario Cristobal, etc.
Posted by DLev45
Member since Aug 2018
731 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 12:19 pm to
quote:


Here's a theory:

Maybe HS player development has gotten a lot better across the board, and leveled out - in other words - tons of HS players playing at relatively the same level

All I know is that we used to win games because of a MASSIVE talent advantage.

We used to have a RB room with 3-4 future NFL starters, for example.

We just haven't had that sort of MASSIVE talent advantage in a while. The rest of the cfb world has caught up to us in that repsect


Transfer Portal and NIL say "hi."

During the first 13 or so years of the Saban dynasty, (1) the only way for a player to get paid big money was to get to the NFL, (2) the best path to the NFL was through Alabama, and (3) once you got here, you couldn't go somewhere else and play immediately.

(1) and (3) are no longer true.

Eddie Lacy isn't going to sit behind Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson for 2 years anymore.

Derrick Henry isn't going to sit behind TJ Yeldon and Kenyan Drake anymore.

Najee Harris isn't going to sit behind Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, and Bo Scarborough anymore.

Jeudy, Smitty, Waddle, and Ruggs aren't going to share 3 WR spots with Tua, Hurts, and Mac as your 3 deep at QB anymore.

Those ships sailed once the NIL checkbooks opened up.

Contrary to what they said, NIL + Transfer Portal DID NOT increase parity between the haves and have-nots. That gulf is as wide as ever.

But it DID increase parity among the HAVES. Look at Tennessee, Texas, Florida State, Southern Cal, Miami, etc. - all big name brands with deep pockets that miraculously reappeared these past 3 years after spending a decade or more mired in mediocrity.

Gee, wonder how that happened?
This post was edited on 9/11/23 at 12:29 pm
Posted by JIB
Member since Sep 2013
2496 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 12:37 pm to
Bama's top recruits from 2021 (juniors this year)

JC Latham - doing great
Tommy Brockermeyer - transferred
Dallas Turner - had as many solo tackles on Saturday as Jalen Milroe
Kool Aid - He has been as good as advertised
Terrion Arnold - Uh, not great
Deonte Lawson - Eh
Damon Payne - Who?
Keanu Koht - Who?
Agiye Hall - Gone
Camar Wheaton - Gone
JoJo Early - Gone
Terrance Ferguson - MIA
Jalen Milroe - we know
Monkelll Goodwine - Sounds like a map up name honestly
Devonta Smith - Not contributing much at all


Yada Yada Yada. And so on. 3-4 guys contributing, but that's about it.

If you look at the 2020 class that would be seniors there were several All American types, but they're gone now. The guys that are not seniors are by and large guys that aren't good enough to be in the NFL after 3 years. The only senior we have that's a solid player is Malachi Moore.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
69805 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 12:40 pm to
The talent is there. The issue has to do with its utilization and with scheme.
Posted by Tupelo
Member since Aug 2022
1733 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:03 pm to
People that are good enough to go to the NFL after 3 years do it. That's just the reality of it. Kirby going to Georgia has hurt us a lot in recruiting, some of our can't miss prospects have signed there the last few years. Not the majority, but enough to make a difference. Deonte Lawson has been playing great this year. He was hurt much of last year. Terrion Arnold had a bad game against Texas penalty wise, but has had some big plays in the two games so far. Devonta Smith had good spring and fall camps, but is hurt, it happens. Some of the transfers were for the better (Agiye Hall), some were due to NIL (probably Aaron Anderson, JoJo Earle). Proctor, the LT, is a true freshman, and should probably lose about 30 pounds, as should our RT, Latham. It was disappointing for me to see them not come in at lower weights. Hard to believe they added that much good weight.
Posted by CrimsonBuddha
Member since Apr 2023
625 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

Dallas Turner - had as many solo tackles on Saturday as Jalen Milroe

I'm starting to think that choosing him over Drew Sanders was the wrong call...
This post was edited on 9/11/23 at 1:04 pm
Posted by JIB
Member since Sep 2013
2496 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:19 pm to
Drew Sanders was the year before Dallas Turner. Sanders was from the same class as Will Anderson.
Posted by phil4bama
Emerald Coast of PCB
Member since Jul 2011
11806 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

quote:
Dallas Turner - had as many solo tackles on Saturday as Jalen Milroe

I'm starting to think that choosing him over Drew Sanders was the wrong call...




It was.
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Bayou Chico
Member since Feb 2009
55987 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

I'm starting to think that choosing him over Drew Sanders was the wrong call...



We have all seen what Turner is capable of. Its inexplicable that he did so little last Saturday, but he's a dude, and is a top 10-15 pick on NFL mock drafts. Saturday was more of the same as last year. Dudes who are obviously talented not producing in big games. idk what the deal is. I thought Steele's approach to defense would change a lot of that.
This post was edited on 9/11/23 at 1:36 pm
Posted by JIB
Member since Sep 2013
2496 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

We have all seen what Turner is capable of. Its inexplicable that he did so little last Saturday, but he's a dude, and is a top 10-15 pick on NFL mock drafts. Saturday was more of the same as last year. Dudes who are obviously talented not producing in big games. idk what the deal is. I thought Steele's approach to defense would change a lot of that.



Maybe he was feeling "anxiety" about the game which is why he and the defense played so poorly.
Posted by phil4bama
Emerald Coast of PCB
Member since Jul 2011
11806 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 1:51 pm to
The OLB position coach has been here 2 years. In those 2 years our best defensive edge rushers have vanished in big games. EVERY. TIME. I really think the guy was brought on for his special teams credentials. He has some nice defensive stats on his bio but they seem sporadic and not as constant as the special teams ones.

Nick has run out of assistants that are in his inner circle. They have either retired or moved on to bigger jobs like head coach. He's making reach hires now based on others recommendations, not personal knowledge and it shows. It's not his fault and there's not much he can do about it but keep trying. He didn't fare so well this last time on coordinators. His top choices for both spots reportedly turned him down. It's not working nearly as well as it once was. But what's the answer?
Posted by JIB
Member since Sep 2013
2496 posts
Posted on 9/11/23 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

The OLB position coach has been here 2 years. In those 2 years our best defensive edge rushers have vanished in big games. EVERY. TIME


Will Anderson's stats in the 4 losses he had while at Bama (which, you know, is pretty impressive to only have 4 losses in 3 years)

Tackles - 15
Solo tackles - 5
Tackles for loss - 1.5
Sacks - 1
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