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re: AU board OT
Posted on 11/5/20 at 9:04 am to BuckFama334
Posted on 11/5/20 at 9:04 am to BuckFama334
quote:
when meaningful consequences are removed?
Idk about you but I'd consider addiction risk / side effects of heroin use are both pretty meaningful consequences. I wouldn't touch the stuff even if it was 100% legal
quote:
What do those terms matter when meaningful consequences are removed?
Hard to imagine that the population of people who want to do heroin but avoid it exclusively due to criminal penalties is significant.
This post was edited on 11/5/20 at 9:07 am
1
Posted on 11/5/20 at 9:22 am to GenesChin
For anyone questioning why this was done, this article spells out the explanation.
LINK
They're basically not treating addicts as criminals anymore, and now will be treated as people that need help. They'll use revenue from cannabis sales to fund the program. Our prison system is absolutely not set up for rehabilitation of drug addicts.
They're basing it on legalization examples in Europe.
From the article...
Multiple countries in Europe, including Portugal, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, have decriminalized hard drugs without rampant negative effects.
Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001, which did not lead to an increase in drug use, but did result in a dramatic reduction of pathologies associated with drug use, such as sexually transmitted diseases and overdose deaths, according to a 2009 Cato Institue study.
A 2015 European Drug Report also found that Portugal's drug overdose death rate is five times lower than the European Union average.
LINK
They're basically not treating addicts as criminals anymore, and now will be treated as people that need help. They'll use revenue from cannabis sales to fund the program. Our prison system is absolutely not set up for rehabilitation of drug addicts.
They're basing it on legalization examples in Europe.
From the article...
Multiple countries in Europe, including Portugal, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, have decriminalized hard drugs without rampant negative effects.
Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001, which did not lead to an increase in drug use, but did result in a dramatic reduction of pathologies associated with drug use, such as sexually transmitted diseases and overdose deaths, according to a 2009 Cato Institue study.
A 2015 European Drug Report also found that Portugal's drug overdose death rate is five times lower than the European Union average.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 9:25 am to kage
But the did legalize mushrooms 
Time for another trip to Oregon!
Time for another trip to Oregon!
Posted on 11/5/20 at 9:48 am to kage
quote:
They're basically not treating addicts as criminals anymore, and now will be treated as people that need help. They'll use revenue from cannabis sales to fund the program. Our prison system is absolutely not set up for rehabilitation of drug addicts.
Ding ding ding
Posted on 11/5/20 at 10:01 am to BuckFama334
quote:
What do those terms matter when meaningful consequences are removed?
This is the wrong way to look at it, imo. It's not about consequences and punishment. It's about helping these people break the cycle of addiction and again, our prison system is not set up for that. It could be, but it will take a massive change of direction in this country for that to happen.
Should we be putting a military vet in jail because he came back with some mental illness and is now addicted?
This post was edited on 11/5/20 at 10:24 am
Posted on 11/5/20 at 10:23 am to Leto II
quote:
But the did legalize mushrooms
Time for another trip to Oregon!
All of this.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 10:34 am to BuckFama334
The war on drugs hasn't exactly worked. Maybe time to consider differing approaches.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 10:57 am to AUCE05
The MIssissippi bill was for medical mj, not recreational use.
But I'm sure that's just down the road a while.
But I'm sure that's just down the road a while.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 1:02 pm to kage
How do police lean on users to find and arrest dealers with no leverage?
Snitches are more effective when their freedom is at stake.
I guess cops can just promise the junkie that they won't have to go to rehab if they tell them where they got the drugs.
Snitches are more effective when their freedom is at stake.
I guess cops can just promise the junkie that they won't have to go to rehab if they tell them where they got the drugs.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 1:47 pm to BuckFama334
quote:
How do police lean on users to find and arrest dealers with no leverage?
If Oregon is able to reduce the number of users by getting them help & clean, there will be less demand. Less demand means less dealers without paying for incarceration costs.
Also, I didn't realize heroin addicts/users had such loyalty to their distribution. Must be a real tight knit community they got there, I wouldn't know about that life.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 2:06 pm to GenesChin
It’s still illegal to be publicly intoxicated just like with alcohol. Changing the law isn’t going to lead to more junkies laying around the streets, lol.
Law enforcement has become babysitters for these people. Let mental health, DHS deal with some of these issues while police officers deal with real crimes we actually care about.
Law enforcement has become babysitters for these people. Let mental health, DHS deal with some of these issues while police officers deal with real crimes we actually care about.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 2:25 pm to GenesChin
quote:
How do police lean on users to find and arrest dealers with no leverage?
If Oregon is able to reduce the number of users by getting them help & clean, there will be less demand. Less demand means less dealers without paying for incarceration costs.
Exactly.
You're never going to stop the supply. We've been doing this for decades and it's clearly not working. All we have is jails filled with people that tax dollars are paying for that aren't getting the help they need to cut the cycle of their addiction.
Will it work for everyone? Probably not unfortunately, but if you can start to chip away at the demand, that supply will slowly go away. I realize it takes a different mindset to see it this way, but the war on drugs in the US has not worked. It's time for a different approach.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 2:34 pm to kage
quote:
This is the wrong way to look at it, imo. It's not about consequences and punishment. It's about helping these people break the cycle of addiction
So by fining someone $100 in stead of $500 is going to help someone break addiction?
I’m sorry people but I can’t agree with that. Less penalty means less worry and more money fir crank
Maybe I am reading this wrong.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 3:14 pm to LanierSpots
quote:
So by fining someone $100 in stead of $500 is going to help someone break addiction?
I’m sorry people but I can’t agree with that. Less penalty means less worry and more money fir crank
Maybe I am reading this wrong.
"People suffering from addiction are more effectively treated with health care services than with criminal punishments," the bill reads. "A health care approach includes a health assessment to figure out the needs of people who are suffering from addiction, and it includes connecting them to the services they need."
They're not just going to hand them a ticket for $100 and let them go on their way. There's an outreach element of this where instead of saying...you're going to jail, they're saying...let's get you some help.
Again, it's not going to work for everyone, but studies on decriminalization efforts in Europe, specifically Portugal show it's worked.
From the article below from a large rehab center,
In the late 1980s and early ’90s, Portugal faced a crippling opioid epidemic where one out of every 10 people were addicted to heroin.
10 years after the law was changed there:
Portugal has the second lowest fatal overdose rate in the European Union, at 3 drug deaths per 1 million people
Rates of HIV and hepatitis infection decreased dramatically
The number of drug related crimes and incarceration rates also saw significant decrease
LINK
Posted on 11/5/20 at 3:22 pm to kage
It's treating the symptoms vs treating the disease.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 3:27 pm to kage
So are there going to be large, state-run mandatory rehab facilities that many of these people have to go to?
Posted on 11/5/20 at 4:00 pm to kage
Legalize everything.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 4:24 pm to The Nino
quote:
So are there going to be large, state-run mandatory rehab facilities that many of these people have to go to?
Well the current ones are, you know, prisons.
Posted on 11/5/20 at 5:49 pm to kage
I get you Kage. I really do man. And I appreciate the effort they have made but I have to look at this from a logic stand point
The state that is loosening the reins on drug use by making weed legal for years, now adding mushrooms, is going out of its way to rehab addicted to said drugs
The entire thing sounds like some kind of money grab or some kind of hidden agenda.
We are going to make it easier for you to do these drugs then when you get hooked on them, we are going to help you get off them
The state that is loosening the reins on drug use by making weed legal for years, now adding mushrooms, is going out of its way to rehab addicted to said drugs
The entire thing sounds like some kind of money grab or some kind of hidden agenda.
We are going to make it easier for you to do these drugs then when you get hooked on them, we are going to help you get off them
Posted on 11/5/20 at 6:22 pm to LanierSpots
quote:
We are going to make it easier for you to do these drugs
How does it make it easier to do drugs? Punishment is a reactionary measure after use, not before
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