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Thoughts on the MARTA expansion plans?

Posted on 5/27/18 at 7:12 pm
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 5/27/18 at 7:12 pm
Curbed Atlanta - Atlanta Beltline Light Rail Transit Proposal

quote:

Seven miles of light rail are included in the city and MARTA’s tentative plan for transit expansion. So leaders of advocacy group Beltline Rail Now! are harrumphing that less than a third of their expectations could be realized with this tax cash.


quote:

— The four-mile Clifton Corridor light rail line from MARTA’s Lindbergh station to the Emory University/Centers for Disease Control and Prevention area recently annexed by Atlanta.

— A light rail system stretching from the Clifton Corridor to Campbelltown Road in southwest Atlanta. The network includes the northeast and southwest portions of the proposed Beltline Loop, plus a connecting link through downtown along the existing Atlanta Streetcar route. The streetcar would become part of the light rail network.

— Bus rapid transit lines on Capitol Avenue, North Avenue, and Northside Drive. MARTA also would initially deploy bus rapid transit along Campbellton Road before upgrading the line to light rail. The buses may operate in their own lanes, making the service faster than local bus service.

— Three arterial rapid transit bus lines, which would operate in regular traffic but may get priority at traffic signals and other enhancements to keep them moving.

— New bus transfer centers at Greenbriar Mall in southwest Atlanta and Marietta Boulevard in northwest Atlanta, plus numerous enhancements to existing MARTA rail stations.


AJC - MARTA CEO gives Atlanta Beltline Supporters Some Hope

quote:

Atlanta voters overwhelmingly approved the half-penny sales tax to expand MARTA in the city. Though MARTA showcased a list of potential projects before the 2016 vote, it’s only now whittling the list down to something financially viable.

MARTA and city employees have recommended 21 miles of new light rail lines, 18 miles of bus rapid transit and other transit improvements (you can find more details here). But the project includes only 7 miles of the beltline loop.




AJC - MARTA Transit Plan Includes 21 Miles of Light Rail

Atlanta Magazine - Connecting MARTA's proposed light rail to the ATL Streetcar is a mistake

quote:

Back in November, voters overwhelmingly approved a sales tax increase to fund transit expansion in the City of Atlanta. MARTA just released its ideal expansion plans, which include bus rapid transit crisscrossing the city, late night and weekend bus service, and 21 miles of light rail. The plan calls for light rail on the BeltLine, which was ranked the highest during the public input process after expanded bus service. But there is a fatal flaw: the light rail infrastructure goes through one of the most congested parts of town, the downtown path of the Atlanta Streetcar.

Building a multi-billion-dollar light rail system around a bottleneck will choke the entire network. Trains can only go as fast as the slowest segment of the route. Currently, whenever a bad parking job interferes with the Streetcar tracks, the whole route is paralyzed for hours at time. Routing the new rail line through the Atlanta Streetcar will end up straining passengers on a daily basis. Crawling trains are not only frustrating for passengers, they are also expensive to operate. MARTA would have to run many more $4-million vehicles in order to maintain short headways (or time between vehicles).



quote:

The Atlanta Streetcar was built on the premise of being the first link to an extensive transit network. Three years later, we must recognize that it cannot serve as the foundation for expansion. Let’s call the Atlanta Streetcar a fair price for a lesson learned and build future transit infrastructure with MARTA’s existing heavy rail network as the backbone.




This post was edited on 5/27/18 at 7:16 pm
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 5/27/18 at 7:24 pm to
And, outside of the MARTA plans (which already have approved funding), Gwinnett continues to run full speed ahead towards their own transit lines (that would be part of "ATL" in the future).

Gwinnett Daily Post - Gwinnett Co officials proposing MARTA-style heavy rail line

quote:

Gwinnett Transportation Director Alan Chapman said a heavy rail line from the Doraville MARTA station to a multimodal hub on Jimmy Carter Boulevard is a long-range proposal the county is looking at in its transit development plan.

The project, which would be part of a transit expansion referendum that county officials plan to eventually put to the voters, would be tied to a multimodal hub that Chapman said commuters would use to change between different types of transit, such as bus rapid transit, also known as BRT.

“We think the best way to accomplish that is to bring the heavy rail out of Doraville up into Gwinnett, probably somewhere in the Jimmy Carter Boulevard area,” Chapman said. “That would allow us to establish transfers from local service, possibly from a BRT-type high capacity service and even express service. That’s just not possible at Doraville right now.”


quote:

“I think (heavy rail) is part of the development of the plan,” Chapman said. “One of the things that we decided as we were beginning to put the plan together was that we were going to look at all of the different modes. Heavy rail is very expensive and I think we knew all along that we couldn’t provide it to a significant part of the county.

“But as we considered the need for the multimodal hub and the idea that we’ve got to have these seamless transfers between transit modes, it I think became apparent to us that it is a needed improvement.”

The inclusion of heavy rail in the plan is also a big development because it would provide a way for MARTA to come into Gwinnett.
This post was edited on 5/27/18 at 7:25 pm
Posted by tylerdurden24
Member since Sep 2009
46395 posts
Posted on 5/27/18 at 9:50 pm to
The missing piece to MARTA will always be Cobb, especially with Suntrust out there now. Expansion up the 400 corridor and some connections deeper into Gwinnett will be nice but Cobb would make it possible to hit a Braves game from anywhere in the city (which wasn't even possible with Turner; n, the struggle bus from Underground Atlanta didn't count)

Would be interesting if a rail line could make it out to Lawrenceville; may re-inspire an eventual connection to Athens.

And am I understanding that the light rail options would be akin to the streetcar or other small people-movers like they just built up in Charlotte? I've always wanted them to do something similar in Athens along the old CSX line that is now all-but abandoned.
Posted by BranchDawg
Flowery Branch
Member since Nov 2013
9828 posts
Posted on 5/27/18 at 10:15 pm to
It'll work well. My grandchildren might just live to see it.
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
29140 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 8:39 am to
quote:

Gwinnett continues to run full speed ahead towards their own transit lines


And 20 years too late.

They voted it down for years to keep out crime. Crime moved in. Dumbasses.
Posted by tylerdurden24
Member since Sep 2009
46395 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 9:15 am to
It’s like... people can purchase and drive these.... au-to-mo-biles to get to where they want to go...
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 9:23 am to
quote:

The missing piece to MARTA will always be Cobb, especially with Suntrust out there now. Expansion up the 400 corridor and some connections deeper into Gwinnett will be nice but Cobb would make it possible to hit a Braves game from anywhere in the city (which wasn't even possible with Turner; n, the struggle bus from Underground Atlanta didn't count)



I fully believe Cobb, or portions of Cobb now with the new piecemeal legislation, will vote for transit in the next 5 years. Especially if Gwinnett does. The fact that individual districts (like Cumberland/Galleria) can basically vote themselves into transit is an enormous shift from the old days of the entire county and having to join MARTA.

However, as noted below, the timeline from approval to the first train running is a decade. So, at best you are looking at 2030 before we really see a full system in Gwinnett and at least Southeastern Cobb. I wouldn't be surprised if Cobb was able to get through some sort of commuter train that only had stops at Galleria/Dobbins/Kennesaw State and generally followed US41/75.

quote:

And am I understanding that the light rail options would be akin to the streetcar or other small people-movers like they just built up in Charlotte? I've always wanted them to do something similar in Athens along the old CSX line that is now all-but abandoned.


Yea - the lite rail will be like Charlotte. When they originally built the Beltline they went ahead and built all the electrical hookups alongside it for transit. People said it was a waste at the time but it's going to save them something like 12-18 months in time and millions of dollars in cost to not have to dig things up (especially now that the area is populated with businesses and buildings).

It will be interesting when and if they agree on commuter train type rail out to Cobb and Gwinnett if they then figure out a way to parlay that into the white whales of trains to Athens/Chattanooga/Macon.
This post was edited on 5/28/18 at 9:29 am
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
29140 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 10:00 am to
quote:

people can purchase and drive these.... au-to-mo-biles to get to where they want to go.


Eventually.

You haven't been here much if you think cars are the solution.
Atlanta is a 24 hour a day shitshow.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27291 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 11:03 am to
quote:

The four-mile Clifton Corridor light rail line from MARTA’s Lindbergh station to the Emory University/Centers for Disease Control and Prevention area recently annexed by Atlanta.



CDC and Emory traffic is horrible and cuts right through my neighborhood but the traffic is almost all headed North (85N and 285W/N) Still won't help this situation IMO.

Light rail has traditionally been a money loser almost anywhere it's been tried and although I like what the beltline has done so far,I really see it being used by more than recreational users.

BTW if you get a chance you should go on the Beltline tour.Starts at the Reynoldstown Station and loops you all the way around up through SW Atlanta up to NW back to Piedmont.
Posted by retooc
Freeport, FL
Member since Sep 2012
7431 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 12:40 pm to
I think if Cobb and Cherokee had voted for expansion in late 80s ATL would be a greatcity.

2018? Too late baws
Posted by The Nino
Member since Jan 2010
21519 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 12:52 pm to
I'm all for the expansion of the rail lines, but I just don't see how it's feasible. Even with elevated railways, I don't know how they have enough land to make these paths. I assume theyll be built above existing roads, but it'll be a clusterfrick for months/years while those roads are shut down for construction.

A Cobb county extension seems inevitable now with Suntrust park, but people have been saying that for years
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27291 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

think if Cobb and Cherokee had voted for expansion in late 80s ATL would be a greatcity


You actually think Atlanta was a greater city in the 80's?

BTW people are still moving here in droves along with fortune 500 companies.Mercedes and Porche are the latest.

Can't think of a big or growing city that doesn't have traffic issues of some kind.
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
29140 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

if Cobb and Cherokee had voted for expansion in late 80s ATL would be a greatcity


And Gwinnett

quote:

Can't think of a big or growing city that doesn't have traffic issues of some kind.


I've been in Houston and Dallas in rush hour. Atlanta is worse. They are far far better in off times. Only place I have ever been that is as bad as Atlanta is L.A.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27291 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

've been in Houston and Dallas in rush hour. Atlanta is worse


Not worse than Houston and here's a top 10.Included BTW
is a DFW suburb (Arlington)

Heres another link for ya that has Houston and Dallas #3 and #4 LINK Atlanta isn't ahead of em BTW.

quote:

Only place I have ever been that is as bad as Atlanta is L.A.


Go to DC,Boston,chicago and NYC and get back to me.
This post was edited on 5/28/18 at 1:40 pm
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
29140 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 1:54 pm to
All I know is that I was in Houston 2 weekends ago and I looked at the distance from IAH to Magnolia. I calculated that it would be 2 hours on Thursday at 530. Took 45 minutes.

Leaving on Sunday afternoon, the roads were wide open. Atlanta is a borderline disaster almost all the time.

quote:

DC,Boston,chicago and NYC


Good thing about DC, Chicago and NYC is that there are good alternatives to driving. Don't know about Boston.

And when I say Atlanta, I mean the 6 million people Atlanta, not the 400,000 people Atlanta proper. This is not trying to make my case, such as it is, just letting you know my perspective. Inside 285 is actually not as bad as outside.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27291 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

Atlanta is a borderline disaster almost all the time.


On Sundays? Cannot think of a bad Sunday interstate drive I've had (non construction/holiday/huge event)


quote:

Good thing about DC, Chicago and NYC is that there are good alternatives to driving.


But it obviously doesn't work for everybody because commutes are still awful.Point is,its not taking people
where the need to go.

quote:

mean the 6 million people Atlanta, not the 400,000 people Atlanta proper. T


Obviously aND a solution had to encompass people coming in from the suburbs.

I really wish the state had gone ahead with an outer perimeter that was proposed about 20 years ago.It was locaTed primarily 20 miles outside in N Metro and at the very minimum it would've relieved all those trucKers coming down 75 and 85N and exiting on to 285...it creates a huge bottleneck daily.

Out of all the cities mentioned it looks like DFW has the best ideas and vision in regards to traffic relief.
Posted by VinegarStrokes
Georgia
Member since Oct 2015
13279 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

All I know is that I was in Houston 2 weekends ago and I looked at the distance from IAH to Magnolia. I calculated that it would be 2 hours on Thursday at 530. Took 45 minutes


So you judge both cities based on one drive you made two weeks ago? Gotcha.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

I've been in Houston and Dallas in rush hour. Atlanta is worse. They are far far better in off times.


I guess it just depends where you are. I live in Brookhaven, work at the Galleria and have clients all over ITP/OTP. I very rarely deal with miserable traffic. I always deal with general traffic, because there are 6.5M people here, but I can't remember the last time I was even frustrated by traffic outside of a few Friday afternoons trying to get West.

Maybe that means I'm just used to it, but personally I think the "Northern Suburbs into town" commute is applied to every trip in the metro area.
Posted by Wally Sparks
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2013
29099 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 5:00 pm to
Get rid of the Campbellton Road LRT Line.
Posted by tylerdurden24
Member since Sep 2009
46395 posts
Posted on 5/28/18 at 5:18 pm to
Lived here all my life. I was referring to the asinine notion that the north metro counties had regarding Marta being the harbinger of crime. I was saying that crime finds a way to get to where it wants to go
This post was edited on 5/28/18 at 5:18 pm
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