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re: About the 3-man front
Posted on 10/10/21 at 5:33 pm to oklahogjr
Posted on 10/10/21 at 5:33 pm to oklahogjr
a 3-4 is a seven man front
a 4-3 is a seven man front
a front is not described in terms of down linemen only, never has been
linebackers are part of the equation because they can walk up a few steps at any time, DE's are part of the equation because they can actually drop in coverage if that's the call (one brainchild of Bill Oliver)
most week to week game plans in those defenses split the difference down to a six man front or a tweener to a 6.5 type front where you're not committing too much to the run or the pass on several down and distance situations
a 4-3 is a seven man front
a front is not described in terms of down linemen only, never has been
linebackers are part of the equation because they can walk up a few steps at any time, DE's are part of the equation because they can actually drop in coverage if that's the call (one brainchild of Bill Oliver)
most week to week game plans in those defenses split the difference down to a six man front or a tweener to a 6.5 type front where you're not committing too much to the run or the pass on several down and distance situations
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Posted on 10/10/21 at 5:39 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
I've never heard anyone say, "we have a 7 man front." No one says a 3-4 defense is a 7 man front.
except in the entire history of modern football?
Posted on 10/10/21 at 5:49 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
Oh FFS. We are getting into a splitting hairs pissing match.
I don't care if we run a 5-3-3 defense. What I care about is that any team with a pulse can run the ball at will on us and we routinely leave WRs wide open on deep passes. It would be nice if we could dial up something to stop those trends from happening.
I don't care if we run a 5-3-3 defense. What I care about is that any team with a pulse can run the ball at will on us and we routinely leave WRs wide open on deep passes. It would be nice if we could dial up something to stop those trends from happening.
Posted on 10/10/21 at 5:49 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Again the front you run is a count of down linemen.
No, it's not. The reason is that the basis of the defense is described in totality by the 7 man front default, and down and distance tendencies from game to game dictate variations from that default
we are basically a 6.5 man front (nickel back with a full secondary)
in prevent, we are going to be a 6 man front if not a 5 man front (dime package)
flip it to other extreme, goal line defense, then any team's goalline D is going to be an 8 man front with man coverage only
we are not abandoning run defense with our philosophy, as this thread suggests - again, linebackers are run-first positions. The exception to that would be a game planned prevent defense where on 3rd and 17 you might actually sub defensive back personnel in for the linebacker personnel
What are most high school defenses nationwide for instance? Most are actually 8 man fronts, like the Wide Tackle 6 or the 5-3
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:01 pm to The Sultan of Swine
quote:
I don't think we're really a cousin to a 3-4. That's very different personnel. Those OLBs are usually big enough to be DEs in a 4-3 scheme
that's why I said we're a cousin to it. Most college teams are not going to have the personnel to run a 3-4, because finding those big fast incredible athletes at outside linebacker is so hard to do - it's easier for NFL teams to do it obviously since the cream of the crop are the only ones who make it onto 32 teams
What we have similar to the 3-4 are tweener secondary guys who are fast on the outside. The old traditional cover 3 strong safety type, only more athletic.
Again, we are basically a 6.5 man front default, and this thread is jumping to conclusions about "a three man front abandoning the run" type of idea, which is ridiculous.
Yall know what a real "3 man front" is? There's one second on the clock and you're up 5 points and the opposing offense is tossing a hail Mary for 50 yards. So yeah, then you have 3 guys rushing to QB and eight DB's dropping into coverage
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:11 pm to The Sultan of Swine
and sure enough, I just checked Hogville and there are dudes running around with their asses on fire yelling about "3 man defensive line!!"
because of the Ole Miss game
so I'm back to my original point on this thread saying that we are bringing Hogville type mentalities to this board by shite like this
We have basically a 6.5 man front (nickel) that is designed to be effective against the run and the pass, period
As of last week, we were number 9 in the nation in total defense with that base defense
But nobody wants to talk about that.
because of the Ole Miss game
so I'm back to my original point on this thread saying that we are bringing Hogville type mentalities to this board by shite like this
We have basically a 6.5 man front (nickel) that is designed to be effective against the run and the pass, period
As of last week, we were number 9 in the nation in total defense with that base defense
But nobody wants to talk about that.
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:15 pm to Arksulli
quote:
any team with a pulse can run the ball at will on us and we routinely leave WRs wide open on deep passes.
After playing Texas and Texas A&M both (who beat Bama btw), we were 9th in the nation last week in total defense
when we let one fricking game dictate our fricking hair being on fire, then we become fricking Hogville
My base point in this thread is, don't be fricking Hogville
Hogville hates actual discussion of real x's and o's, and they LOVE running around with their pussy hair on fire
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:20 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
You're only as good as your last game.
Frank said they "remembah Novembah" meaning your judged by how you finish a season not necessarily how you start, now it's the same on a week to week basis going from to the need for 10mil a year contracts now to should be fired on the tarmac a week later.
Arkansas is still a top 20 team two seasons removed from back to back 2-10 seasons, so obviously someone isn't doing their job and should be fired for this travesty of a team.
Frank said they "remembah Novembah" meaning your judged by how you finish a season not necessarily how you start, now it's the same on a week to week basis going from to the need for 10mil a year contracts now to should be fired on the tarmac a week later.
Arkansas is still a top 20 team two seasons removed from back to back 2-10 seasons, so obviously someone isn't doing their job and should be fired for this travesty of a team.
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:32 pm to DaleDenton
quote:
Arkansas is still a top 20 team two seasons removed from back to back 2-10 seasons, so obviously someone isn't doing their job and should be fired for this travesty of a team.
sarcasm noted
if anyone can read one thing I'm posting in this particular thread, it's this: the pussy on fire dipshit sky scream for October 10, 2021, is "3 man front"
I mean really? What about a 4-3 defense where the DE uses a 2 point stance? Is that automatically a "3 man front"?
The premise of this thread is Hogville level pussy hair on fire bullshite.
Yes, I see the latest stats. We dropped from 9th in the nation in defense to 39th. We all get that. But what got us to 9th last week? This defensive scheme did.
When you decide who to hire for your DC, you look at guys who bring different philosophies. Are you going to find a guy who brings a base defense that will be easily plugged into all 12 opponents for the next year? Never. If you find a guy who's got a great scheme for 9 of those 12, that's not bad, and you do what you can to tweek the gameplan those other 3 games. Ole Miss was one of those games. It's fricking Lane Kiffin and he's an offensive master.
This post was edited on 10/10/21 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:35 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
I remember freeze lighting bama up and being shut down by a mediocre Arkansas team the same season.
I also remember the key missing piece to Petrino winning a nc at the time was a DC in Memphis who was going to be the next DC at Arkansas according to the insiders by the name of Barry Odem.
I also remember the key missing piece to Petrino winning a nc at the time was a DC in Memphis who was going to be the next DC at Arkansas according to the insiders by the name of Barry Odem.
Posted on 10/10/21 at 6:49 pm to DaleDenton
quote:
I remember freeze lighting bama up and being shut down by a mediocre Arkansas team the same season.
I also remember the key missing piece to Petrino winning a nc at the time was a DC in Memphis who was going to be the next DC at Arkansas according to the insiders by the name of Barry Odem.
Here's another thought, this time about the proverbial high school football team. The cancer in the locker room, is most often about 99% of the time caused by fathers or mothers of the players, because the fathers and mothers are absolute dipshits in regard to knowledge of the game.
The coaches on those teams, when they finally get home and have a good nap, have beautiful dreams of kicking the complete shite out of those fathers and mothers of players. Like UFC arse beatings of little Joey Smith's dad, the dipshit.
Multiply all that times a large number, and you have Hogville.
That is why we on this site are not supposed to be Hogville.
Posted on 10/10/21 at 7:23 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:
Hogville hates actual discussion of real x's and o's, and they LOVE running around with their pussy hair on fire
Posted on 10/11/21 at 5:48 am to Harry Rex Vonner
I think many of us would make the argument that this is not a reaction to just one game. This is the same pattern we saw last year. Teams figured out that they can run the ball straight at us if they have a decent line and hit deep passes almost at will.
In fact, I'd make the argument that is exactly what Texas tried to do but they couldn't get the line play to pull off the running game and their QB froze up.
If it was just one game we would just grimace and say "ah well, one of those shoot outs". Instead it is starting to look awfully like what we did last year when our defense started off hot and then became a liability as the season went on.
People having a nervous breakdown over a failed Malik Hornsby run is over reacting to one play in one game. People pointing out that history is repeating itself when it comes to our defense based on what we've seen for a year and a half from this team isn't panicking.
Yes, we all drank the Kool-Aid at the start of this year, though a lot of us kept saying "man we are going to be in trouble if they start hitting passes to these open WRs." Well, teams are starting to hit those wide open WRs now and teams are getting good enough line play to push us around on the LOS.
I don't think folks are saying burn the program to the ground, but we are saying can we make some sort of adjustment to change this trend?
In fact, I'd make the argument that is exactly what Texas tried to do but they couldn't get the line play to pull off the running game and their QB froze up.
If it was just one game we would just grimace and say "ah well, one of those shoot outs". Instead it is starting to look awfully like what we did last year when our defense started off hot and then became a liability as the season went on.
People having a nervous breakdown over a failed Malik Hornsby run is over reacting to one play in one game. People pointing out that history is repeating itself when it comes to our defense based on what we've seen for a year and a half from this team isn't panicking.
Yes, we all drank the Kool-Aid at the start of this year, though a lot of us kept saying "man we are going to be in trouble if they start hitting passes to these open WRs." Well, teams are starting to hit those wide open WRs now and teams are getting good enough line play to push us around on the LOS.
I don't think folks are saying burn the program to the ground, but we are saying can we make some sort of adjustment to change this trend?
Posted on 10/11/21 at 6:07 am to Arksulli
Solid analysis
Posted on 10/11/21 at 9:46 am to Arksulli
you're asking me?
we were 9th in the nation in total defense a week ago
after five games
we were 9th in the nation in total defense a week ago
after five games
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:01 am to Arksulli
we run an odd front, not even, because an odd front is an easier plug into LB's and secondary adjusting to TE shifts, motion by WR's and backs, etc
That was especially needed against a guy who Nick fricking Saban had previously hired to run his offense at Alabama (Kiffin) and it will also be needed in that regard against Bama this year. And Miss State. And basically everyone else we play.
it was a 6-man front (I know the Sky Screamers hate that) against Ole Miss' one-back set. All day. With a secondary based out of cover 2 zone and basically as extra free safety in the middle as a spy, robber, whatever anyone wants to call him. He was up on the run hard per his reads, just like every week, and his shoulder is banged up like hell btw, and that may have contributed to some lesser production this week. He's an All American.
All secondaries get burned. It's part of the game. Sometimes your great three point shooter misses a fricking shot and sometimes your star hitter strikes out. It's part of the game.
Again, the "3 man front!!" screaming is embarrassing. It's literally Hogville, and this thread is some extension of a thread over there with a bunch of dumbasses screaming about 3 down linemen. And now this morning the talk shows are "questioning" whether we should move to 4 down linemen, because the talk shows need dumbass Hogville callers to call in to fill whatever numbers radio people crunch.
That was especially needed against a guy who Nick fricking Saban had previously hired to run his offense at Alabama (Kiffin) and it will also be needed in that regard against Bama this year. And Miss State. And basically everyone else we play.
it was a 6-man front (I know the Sky Screamers hate that) against Ole Miss' one-back set. All day. With a secondary based out of cover 2 zone and basically as extra free safety in the middle as a spy, robber, whatever anyone wants to call him. He was up on the run hard per his reads, just like every week, and his shoulder is banged up like hell btw, and that may have contributed to some lesser production this week. He's an All American.
All secondaries get burned. It's part of the game. Sometimes your great three point shooter misses a fricking shot and sometimes your star hitter strikes out. It's part of the game.
Again, the "3 man front!!" screaming is embarrassing. It's literally Hogville, and this thread is some extension of a thread over there with a bunch of dumbasses screaming about 3 down linemen. And now this morning the talk shows are "questioning" whether we should move to 4 down linemen, because the talk shows need dumbass Hogville callers to call in to fill whatever numbers radio people crunch.
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 10:08 am
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:21 am to Harry Rex Vonner
You're the only one getting their fricking panties in a twist over language. You know what people are saying, regardless of what they call it.
Results speak for themselves.
And your obsession with Hogville? You okay? Maybe it's just a logical fricking concern after giving up over 300 yards rushing to OLE frickING MISS.
Results speak for themselves.
And your obsession with Hogville? You okay? Maybe it's just a logical fricking concern after giving up over 300 yards rushing to OLE frickING MISS.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:31 am to Harry Rex Vonner
An odd front is a 3 man front. When people say front they are referencing how many players have their hand in the dirt. 4-2-5 4 down 2 backers 5 DBs. 3-3-5 3 down 3 backers 5 DBs. 3-4 3 down 4 backs 4 DBs. 4-3 4 down 3 backers 4 DBs. 2-4-5 2 down 4 backers 5 DBs. It’s used to describe the type of personnel that are out on the field. Yes no matter if we run an odd or even front we will have 6 to 7 guys in the box most likely whether it be 3 lineman, 2/3 backers and 2/3 safeties but what people are saying is maybe it would be better that instead of having an extra linebacker or safety on the field we substitute them with another lineman. Now I’m not hating on Odom or calling for his head as you’ve said it’s only been 2 bad games, but anything more than 2 is a trend, so if we’re getting gashed up the middle because our linebackers and safeties that are supposed to be filling holes as you said are getting blocked by lineman getting downfield maybe we should put another 260+ pound man on the field to eat up some of that space. I agree we are banged up and that’s part of what is hurting us but if we know we’re banged up maybe we should make an adjustment at least for a game until we can rest up a little and lick our wounds
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:32 am to ocelot4ark
it's just the opposite - I don't want this place to seem like Hogville, and this week, it certainly fricking does
I don't know why I let people butchering x's and o's get to me so much
I admit I do have a problem with that. When people just make shite up, I have a problem walking away and letting them be stupid by themselves. I need to start walking away from it
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:37 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
An odd front is a 3 man front.
the most prolific odd front is the 3-4, which is a 7 man front, period, whether you like it or not
we are one body removed from a 3-4 alignment (not personnel! alignment only... ) because we take that seventh guy and used him in the nickle instead. We have the ability to move him around wherever we want him, so at any point (being multiple, hope you understand that), we can give a straight 3-4 alignment 7 man front if for instance we are going against a two back offensive formation.
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