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re: About the 3-man front
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:43 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:43 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Read my entire post. I explained it all in detail
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 10:44 am
1
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:49 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
It’s used to describe the type of personnel that are out on the field.
A 3-4 alignment does not dictate prototype "3-4 personnel" in our case, or in the case of most other college teams, because we do not have the personnel of NFL teams.
Our "3-3" six man front was never outnumbered all day.
When Ole Miss was on 3rd and short or on the goal line, we had 8 in the box and bump man coverage from the rest
This entire point of blather (by our own talk radio on this very day, of course, because that's how they are) on all this is that we were never outnumbered "in the box"
Posted on 10/11/21 at 10:50 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:01 am to Harry Rex Vonner
You aren’t wrong in theory. And your totally right about most college teams not running a true 3-4. But the point I think some are trying to make is we maybe better with our next best defensive end on the field or Nichols and ridgeway out there at the same time, vs a banged up catalon or Simeon Blair. Nobody is doubting their heart or ability in open field tackling but when a lineman is able to get up on them there’s not much they can do. So if we put another big body down there it’s harder for them to get to the 2nd level and block cat or grant or bumper or Hayden. Odom has always been fundamentally sound like you said even with extra dbs on the field the issue is teams are able to block them through double teaming to 2nd level. You put another big body out there and it makes that harder to do.
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 11:04 am
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:03 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
When people say front they are referencing how many players have their hand in the dirt.
No
They're not
Now what? What else should I read?
We run a 6 man front, and nickel secondary. Our front six play run first. Period. Let that sink in....
Our secondary plays a combination of man/zone (basically man on wide splits), with what is basically an extra free safety inside a 2 deep zone. He is up on the run hard after a quick default read of pass first, if you understand what I'm saying. A wrinkle on that for instance against Ole Miss' bunch trips, was a 3 man matchup zone, often out wide. Sometimes Kiffin did this to literally pull bodies away from the box and run the ball. Smart by him.
And a frickton of Hog fans on this Monday morning are sky screaming that the baby should be thrown out with the bath water because of that.
This odd six man front defense, as of last week, was number 9 in the nation. let that sink in...
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:05 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Yes they are. A 3 man front means 3 down lineman. An odd front means the same thing. 3 or 5 down lineman. Google it if you don’t believe me
Example l: 3-2-6 vs 2-3-6 one has 3 down lineman (3 down Front) is an odd front and has 2 linebackers. The other is an even front (2 down lineman) 3 linebackers and 6 dbs every gap is the accounted for and the same except for one you have less big bodies and more speed and the other you take a linebacker off and out a d lineman on.
Example l: 3-2-6 vs 2-3-6 one has 3 down lineman (3 down Front) is an odd front and has 2 linebackers. The other is an even front (2 down lineman) 3 linebackers and 6 dbs every gap is the accounted for and the same except for one you have less big bodies and more speed and the other you take a linebacker off and out a d lineman on.
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 11:08 am
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:06 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
But the point I think some are trying to make is we maybe better with our next best defensive end on the field or Nichols and ridgeway out there at the same time, vs a banged up catalon or Simeon Blair.
So then you're wanting John Chavis back.
Barry Odom is not John Chavis. An even front is not Barry Odom.
By the way, Alabama fans want to steal Barry Odom from us.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:08 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Ever heard of a 4-2-5? And show me where I said we should get rid of Odom. I never did. I like Odom hell I like the defense we run I just think if we threw a couple wrinkles out there against run heavy teams with either another linebacker or down lineman we might stop the run on early down ls better and get them where we want them and then we can run what we do best. Hell even a true 3-3 with Hayden bumper and grant would solve some problems I think
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 11:10 am
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:12 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
a "front".......are the guys who play run first
butchering terminology on that is just that
but you keep believing it all you want
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:16 am to Harry Rex Vonner
I have read all of these posts... And am now more confused than ever.
I think that I will watch the games just to enjoy the entertainment from now on.
this thread, Geesh!
I think that I will watch the games just to enjoy the entertainment from now on.
this thread, Geesh!
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:18 am to Harry Rex Vonner
No one calls a 4-3 and 3-4 a 7 man front even though both have 7 in the box. I coach high school football and we run a 3 man front but have 8 guys playing run first because we play a 3-5. We don’t call it an 8 man front. It’s an odd 3 man front. Call it what you want im telling you what people think is that we would be better at stopping the run if we put 1 more bigger body on the field
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:21 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
a 8 year old understands 4 guys in a 3 point stance versus 3 guys in a 3 point stance
not many 8 year olds coach football
defensive linemen and linebacker play run first....Not pass first, but run first. Pass second on their latter reads.
Secondary guys play pass first, then run support.
The defensive front are those guys who play run first. If you don't recognize that, you're not doing yourself any favors in regard to being a student of the game. The defensive front, being the guys who play run first, is a chapter one page one fundamental of the game
Lane Kiffin sees our 6 man front. So he knows we are heavy on pass protection. So he runs it quite a bit. If he saw a 7 man front instead, he would eat us alive - like we saw with John Chavis - with the pass game
not many 8 year olds coach football
defensive linemen and linebacker play run first....Not pass first, but run first. Pass second on their latter reads.
Secondary guys play pass first, then run support.
The defensive front are those guys who play run first. If you don't recognize that, you're not doing yourself any favors in regard to being a student of the game. The defensive front, being the guys who play run first, is a chapter one page one fundamental of the game
Lane Kiffin sees our 6 man front. So he knows we are heavy on pass protection. So he runs it quite a bit. If he saw a 7 man front instead, he would eat us alive - like we saw with John Chavis - with the pass game
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:22 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Ever heard of a 4-2-5
Yes. I played in it.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:32 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Yes they are. A 3 man front means 3 down lineman. An odd front means the same thing. 3 or 5 down lineman. Google it if you don’t believe me
Example l: 3-2-6 vs 2-3-6 one has 3 down lineman (3 down Front) is an odd front and has 2 linebackers. The other is an even front (2 down lineman) 3 linebackers and 6 dbs every gap is the accounted for and the same except for one you have less big bodies and more speed and the other you take a linebacker off and out a d lineman on.
Lord have mercy dude. I see that you know how to count to 11. Good job on that. No one run 2 down linemen and no one has run 5 down linemen (except in high school) since 1981 or something. maybe that's what Lou Tepper did at LSU
"Google it"?
How many guys play run first? That's your front. If you butcher that, then stop trying to understand the game.
If you're an offensive coordinator, you read your opponent's defense every play. Do you give a rats arse who has a hand on the ground? No. You do care however who you know or suspect is playing run first (that's why blitzes are a wrench thrown in at a split second notice)? Yes, Yes you do.
Offensive checks are based off numbers they see from the defense. They don't give a shite if some guy has his hand on the ground.
Get it yet? Probably not?
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 11:34 am
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:41 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
No one calls a 4-3 and 3-4 a 7 man front even though both have 7 in the box
Yes they do. And they have for decades
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:45 am to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:k
When people just make shite up, I have a problem walking away and letting them be stupid by themselves. I need to start walking away from it
No one's making anything up. You're just being an a-hole.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:48 am to Razorback Reverend
quote:
I have read all of these posts... And am now more confused than ever.
I think that I will watch the games just to enjoy the entertainment from now on.
this thread, Geesh!
How about this Rev...
Against Ole Miss' one back set, we had 3 down linemen and 3 linebackers most of the game (except in short yardage)
That's our six guys up front playing the run first.
in birth55's 4-2-5, he's got 4 down lineman and 2 linebackers, his six guys up front playing the run first
in his 4 and 2, he's got more muscle up front with the 4, but only two linebackers running longer distances to make plays
in Barry Odom's 3 and 3, he's got less muscle up front with the 3, but 3 linebackers running shorter distances to make plays
Pittboss hired Barry Odom to decide which philosophy is better. Odom would rather have 3 linebackers being able to run shorter distances to make plays
that's it!
and at the same time, he's not hamstrung with the old John Chavis four guys in the secondary getting their asses burned so much, because he's got five back there.
That's the tradeoff.
Hog fans hate it this week, and radio call in shows are playing dumb for radio ratings, or maybe they're just dumb to begin with (probably more accurate)
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:54 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
I coach high school football and we run a 3 man front but have 8 guys playing run first because we play a 3-5. We don’t call it an 8 man front. It’s an odd 3 man front. Call it what you want im telling you what people think is that we would be better at stopping the run if we put 1 more bigger body on the field
a bunch of people coach high school and a bunch of people in college. So your head coach at the high school thinks Barry Odom should just waltz another defensive lineman out there and completely gut his philosophy.
Maybe we should ask the defensive coordinator at UA Monticello too. How about the head coach at West Georgia College? Let's see what he thinks too.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 11:55 am to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:wait you seriously have never hear of a dollar defense? Yes a 2-3-6 is something people run. Not every down but people run it
No one run 2 down linemen
Posted on 10/11/21 at 12:00 pm to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:I’m not saying I’m a better coach than Barry Odom. I like Odom. I would be pissed if Odom left us for someone else. This is the best defense we’ve had in a long time imo. But we have issues stopping the run in between the tackles. Some people believe we could be better at stopping the run in between the tackles if we we went with another DOWN LINEMAN. Down meaning hand in dirt. IE. 4 man front. I’m not going to argue semantics all day. Believe what you want. We run a a 3-2-6 base meaning 3 defensive lineman 2 linebackers 6 defensive backs. Maybe if we went either 4 defensive lineman 2 linebackers 5 defensive backs or 3 defensive lineman 3 linebackers 5 defensive backs we could stop the runs up the middle a little better. That’s the entire premise of this thread. We’ve Argued over a page now on fricking semantics. Even if you have 7 guys committed to stopping the run not everyone is built the same. A 270 pound kid is going to take on a block way better than a 225 pound kid. Vice versa a 270 pound kid has no chance in coverage whereas the 225 kid can probably hold his own. There are strengths and weaknesses to everything we do, no one is doubting that. But maybe if we mixed the looks up in early downs we could stop the runs up the gut. That is the only thing I’m getting at
Maybe we should ask the defensive coordinator at UA Monticello too. How about the head coach at West Georgia College? Let's see what he thinks too.
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