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re: If you're a DC facing Bama...
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:07 am to The Spleen
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:07 am to The Spleen
If your DL wins against our OL then you have a shot, especially if you have good players in the back 7 and an elite defensive coach. It would still be hard to "shut us down" (nearly impossible, honestly) but you could slow us down and force some punts.
Quite frankly - the most realistic scenario I see in which we get bogged down is against a team who is very athletic and slows us down in the red zone. LSU is the most likely candidate for that. When we get inside the 20 a lot of our threats go away (stretch the field, explosiveness). So, if you can play our O-line to a standstill you can force some FG attempts.
If we get inside the red zone 5 times and you force 3 FG attempts............you could hold us to 20-24 points.
Quite frankly - the most realistic scenario I see in which we get bogged down is against a team who is very athletic and slows us down in the red zone. LSU is the most likely candidate for that. When we get inside the 20 a lot of our threats go away (stretch the field, explosiveness). So, if you can play our O-line to a standstill you can force some FG attempts.
If we get inside the red zone 5 times and you force 3 FG attempts............you could hold us to 20-24 points.
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Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:11 am to TideWarrior
quote:
You hope Tua throws an INT of the return he makes the tackle and is called for targeting and tossed out of the game.
This is a good strategy...
Emailing Kirby just in case. 
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:24 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
If you play the old strategy of "stop the run and make them beat you with the pass" you may find yourself down a whole lot and forced to get one dimensional fast.
So I think the initial strategy has to be something with two high safety's to try and protect from Tua throwing the receivers open deep
I think Bama will just run the rock, and pick up chunks of yards doing it, until you get out of 2 high safeties.
And that's the conundrum. Many here are focusing on stopping Tua and the big pass play, but Bama is still a running football team and happily eat you alive with it.
If a team is in Nickel with 2 high safeties, then they are committing to stopping Bama's run game with 6 in the box. Good luck with that one.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:27 am to prevatt33
Ya but if you try and play man without the db's, you could be down three scores in the blink of an eye and looking to get taken out of your offensive game plan early.
I would start out keeping the safeties high and then try and get creative with some run blitzes on early downs to try and get some negative plays.
I would start out keeping the safeties high and then try and get creative with some run blitzes on early downs to try and get some negative plays.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:31 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
If your DL wins against our OL then you have a shot, especially if you have good players in the back 7 and an elite defensive coach.
This. You have to beat us at the LOS and hope it forces Tua into some mistakes. It helps if you have the DBs to cover our WRs (may not exist in college)
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:42 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Ya but if you try and play man without the db's
Do you mean man with out the double safety help?
I think Bama fans are over-reacting a bit to how successful our passing game has been through 3 games, since we did it against 2 dreadful P5 defenses and a Sunbelt team. When we get to the difficult defenses on our schedule, our offense won't continue to look like a video game through the air. Players will get covered a lot more often, Tua will get pressured sometimes, and the windows for him to throw into will get a lot smaller.
Yes, as a Bama fan, I'm confident in Tua's ability to stay accurate against tight coverage, but the point is that we have seen a defense in the top half of CFB yet. And this over-reaction to Tua's video game numbers through 3 games has made many of you forget that we're still a running team at heart and strive to maintain balance, which means the defense will have to remain balanced as well, or you'll get eaten alive. Selling out to stop the pass in the first Q will mean Bama will average 12 yards per rush on the ground until you get balanced, and getting down 21 early can happen just as easily on the ground as it can through the air.
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 11:45 am
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:51 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Ya but if you try and play man without the db's
I assume you are talking about Nickel with 2 high safeties, and the kryptonite for this is 3 wide. Lining up in 3 wide forces your Star to get out of the box, which mean you will only have 6 in the box. Bama, with 3 wide, still has 8 in the box with which to execute the run game. Any OC in football will fap till raw as long as you line up this way as you'll get absolutely gashed in the run game. Hell, it's auburn's entire offensive philosophy.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:53 am to prevatt33
True, but there's still some hangover from what he did against an elite UGA defense back in January. I certainly don't expect him to continue on the pace he's set for himself through the first 3 games, but he's demonstrated he can perform against an elite defense, albeit a very small sample size.
And we've only touched on the running game in this post. With our OL and stable of RB's, we can easily rely on that if a team is able to slow his passing down.
And we've only touched on the running game in this post. With our OL and stable of RB's, we can easily rely on that if a team is able to slow his passing down.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 11:58 am to prevatt33
quote:
Do you mean man with out the double safety help?
I think Bama fans are over-reacting a bit to how successful our passing game has been through 3 games, since we did it against 2 dreadful P5 defenses and a Sunbelt team. When we get to the difficult defenses on our schedule, our offense won't continue to look like a video game through the air. Players will get covered a lot more often, Tua will get pressured sometimes, and the windows for him to throw into will get a lot smaller.
Yes, as a Bama fan, I'm confident in Tua's ability to stay accurate against tight coverage, but the point is that we have seen a defense in the top half of CFB yet. And this over-reaction to Tua's video game numbers through 3 games has made many of you forget that we're still a running team at heart and strive to maintain balance, which means the defense will have to remain balanced as well, or you'll get eaten alive. Selling out to stop the pass in the first Q will mean Bama will average 12 yards per rush on the ground until you get balanced, and getting down 21 early can happen just as easily on the ground as it can through the air.
No i mean if you try to play man to man and stop the run, without the quality of db play to hang with our skill position this year. Outside of LSU, i'm not sure what team on our schedule has the db's to do that. If you have an elite defense like LSU, you can do different things.
I just mean, have safety help over the top - that doesn't just mean 2 high nickel - you need to mix up coverage, get creative with some zone / man combo coverages, etc. If you don't protect against the deep ball, you will be in trouble.
There is no right answer here. With all the weapons on Bama's offense, no matter what strategy you say, i can say "well bama will just do this to stop it". Its why I keep saying you have to mix it up and confuse them, get a negative play with some run blitzes and then try to get to third and medium / long and then again, get creative and create confusion.
I don't know what strategy would be better? Stop the run and hope Tua / the WRs have an off game?
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:02 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
you have to mix it up and confuse them
I totally agree. Make Tua think as much as humanly possible.
quote:
No i mean if you try to play man to man and stop the run, without the quality of db play to hang with our skill position this year.
Remember though, that in my OP I stipulated that you had a decently talented defense, and used LSU as an example. They've got dude's in the secondary, and many of them will get shots at the NFL. The point is in this hypothetical scenario, you feel confident in your corners' overall ability to play man (unlike the Louisvilles and Ole Misses of the world).
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:03 pm to prevatt33
Ah, i see - LSU is way more than decent IMO and I didn't read close enough to see you use them as an example.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:08 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
LSU is way more than decent IMO
I wasn't meaning to imply LSU's defense was just "decent". I meant to imply that this hypothetical defense was "decently talented", i.e. "sufficiently talented" to play against Bama, and used LSU as my example. I believe LSU's defense to easily be in the top 15 in all of CFB, but I don't know if they are crazy elite at any one position, and so I thought them an apt example for this scenario.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:17 pm to prevatt33
quote:
I think Bama fans are over-reacting a bit to how successful our passing game has been through 3 games, since we did it against 2 dreadful P5 defenses and a Sunbelt team. When we get to the difficult defenses on our schedule, our offense won't continue to look like a video game through the air. Players will get covered a lot more often, Tua will get pressured sometimes, and the windows for him to throw into will get a lot smaller.
Yes, as a Bama fan, I'm confident in Tua's ability to stay accurate against tight coverage, but the point is that we have seen a defense in the top half of CFB yet. And this over-reaction to Tua's video game numbers through 3 games has made many of you forget that we're still a running team at heart and strive to maintain balance, which means the defense will have to remain balanced as well, or you'll get eaten alive. Selling out to stop the pass in the first Q will mean Bama will average 12 yards per rush on the ground until you get balanced, and getting down 21 early can happen just as easily on the ground as it can through the air.
Agree
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:21 pm to prevatt33
Ya, i'm with you - just read the OP too quickly.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:23 pm to prevatt33
quote:
think Bama will just run the rock, and pick up chunks of yards doing it, until you get out of 2 high safeties.
And that's the conundrum. Many here are focusing on stopping Tua and the big pass play, but Bama is still a running football team and happily eat you alive with it.
If a team is in Nickel with 2 high safeties, then they are committing to stopping Bama's run game with 6 in the box. Good luck with that one.
I think that's why a Wide 9 may work against what we show. If (a big if here) you have the personnel, you can eliminate a portion of the run game without having to commit to a blitz and are able to keep better coverage. You can seal up a hard edge wide and take away a lot of the outside runs and sweeps. It's also a defense that allows you to stay really simple on the fronts.
Here's a pretty cool video of Jim Schwartz talking about how the Wide 9 ended up being developed. Basically it was something they came up with in Tennessee to defend against Peyton Manning and the colts run game and the outside zone. If you're into this kind of stuff it's worth the watch.
Jim Schwartz Wide 9
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:32 pm to RolltidePA
Good stuff. Excellent contribution to the discussion. I'll check it out in depth when I get some time this afternoon.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:33 pm to Sneaky__Sally
So, now that you know you've got some dude's on the back end, what's your plan to slow Bama down?
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:42 pm to prevatt33
quote:
Selling out to stop the pass in the first Q will mean Bama will average 12 yards per rush on the ground until you get balanced, and getting down 21 early can happen just as easily on the ground as it can through the air.
Posted on 9/21/18 at 12:43 pm to prevatt33
Pretty much what I said, except you don't HAVE to keep the safeties over the top and can protect the middle of the field, stop the run better with 7 in the box, maybe let a safety cheat down lower on early downs.
I'd still play safeties over the top some, if Tua has lots of shots at man coverage, he is going to hit some deep ones. With a safety over the top maybe you can bait him into taking a shot and get a pick. Some man / zone combo coverage, hit some run blitzes to try and get negative plays on the early downs.
Then on third and medium to long, work with three down lineman, sometimes maybe two, lbs also standing up on the edge, but end up dropping some back to get into the throwing lanes and make him pause. Still only send 4 or 5 rushers most of the time though. Attack early, give him lots of looks, try and get a pick or something and rattle him - hopefully he starts playing slower, thinking too much to give you a chance.
This is all predicated on being able to keep bama's run game in check to some degree. Try not to get gashed in the run or pass, try and get a negative play in the run game, then when the opportunity comes on third and long, get creative with pressure to try and take advantage.
ETA: And all of that is a lot easier said than done, need a good DC and some smart players to avoid break downs.
I'd still play safeties over the top some, if Tua has lots of shots at man coverage, he is going to hit some deep ones. With a safety over the top maybe you can bait him into taking a shot and get a pick. Some man / zone combo coverage, hit some run blitzes to try and get negative plays on the early downs.
Then on third and medium to long, work with three down lineman, sometimes maybe two, lbs also standing up on the edge, but end up dropping some back to get into the throwing lanes and make him pause. Still only send 4 or 5 rushers most of the time though. Attack early, give him lots of looks, try and get a pick or something and rattle him - hopefully he starts playing slower, thinking too much to give you a chance.
This is all predicated on being able to keep bama's run game in check to some degree. Try not to get gashed in the run or pass, try and get a negative play in the run game, then when the opportunity comes on third and long, get creative with pressure to try and take advantage.
ETA: And all of that is a lot easier said than done, need a good DC and some smart players to avoid break downs.
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 9/21/18 at 1:49 pm to prevatt33
quote:
So, now that you know you've got some dude's on the back end, what's your plan to slow Bama down?
I would hope to do a few things.
1. Take away a portion of the run game. If you do use a front like a 9, you are going to push the run game into the middle of the field. If you can effectively do that, you know what specifics you need to practice and what gaps to attack. You can't take away Bama's run game completely, but try and limit it and somewhat dictate where it goes.
2. Keep as many in coverage as possible, pressure without a blitz is essential. Keep guys covered up long enough for the defensive front to get to him. Limit the amount of time that Tua has to analyze whats going on. Here is the tough thing; from what I have seen Tua is a amazing in the pocket, he shifts moves and slides; it's downright magical. So do you get him moving or do you try and close the pocket on him? I honestly don't have the answer to that.
3. Mix the coverages. I haven't seen him get confused yet, but if you are effective with pressure, maybe you can sneak a look that might catch him between a decision. From a general philosophy, I wouldn't go with man to man coverage. Just too much talent in Bama's WR core. There is going to be a matchup to exploit and someone running free on every play and if Tua can get through a progression on you, it's going to be lights out nearly every play.
Maybe base you could run something like Quarters, Quarters and Halves and build from that. That gives you a cover 2 look on the X (typically weak side receiver) and safety help. Also lets the DB get physical with the WR. Strong side of the field gets the Quarters look with a safety and DB keeping thing in front of them . You better have some quality LB's for coverage on this look. Again this isn't a magic bullet, but at least you can dictate the direction of play and keep things in front of you and pray for pressure on Tua forcing a bad throw.
----
Here's the catch; do all that and Bama probably still beats you. Most likey big. Maybe if you execute well you can beat the spread! Just so many weapons, there is almost always a matchup issue. Pressure is the only thing that could be the difference.
This post was edited on 9/21/18 at 1:53 pm
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