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Robot Santa
SMU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34467 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

The foundation of this country was founded by those in power at the cost of someone else.


The same can be said of every civilization in the entire course of human history.


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
DeKalb
Member since Jul 2013
66655 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
It all comes back to the idea that man is flawed.

If you truly want to hold men accountable for their sins.......good luck finding any of them (other than 1) that you still respect or honor. This is why my general idea on all of this has been honoring the actions/accomplishments of certain men, not the men in totality.

History is filled with individuals who accomplished great things - almost all of them had glaring faults.
This post was edited on 6/22 at 2:25 pm


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TideSaint
Alabama Fan
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
59961 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

Those things must change so people of color don't have to work twice as hard to attain the same recognition of others.


What industry are you referring to here?

It can't be professional athletes. If you don't put in the work you don't succeed no matter your race when it comes to sports.

The same can be said for practically every other profession. For the most part, in my experiences, the person receiving the recognition is the person who put in the most work.

I mean, yeah, there are certainly cases where a white person is selected for a promotion over a Hispanic or black person where they probably weren't the most qualified candidate, but it goes both ways with Affirmative Action.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

What industry are you referring to here?

It can't be professional athletes. If you don't put in the work you don't succeed no matter your race when it comes to sports.

The same can be said for practically every other profession. For the most part, in my experiences, the person receiving the recognition is the person who put in the most work.

I mean, yeah, there are certainly cases where a white person is selected for a promotion over a Hispanic or black person where they probably weren't the most qualified candidate, but it goes both ways with Affirmative Action.


I think it goes more in regards to yes the opportunity is there for anyone of color in this country and that has been the biggest change over the last 50+ years but people of color still for the most part have to work a harder.

The problem is withing the communities of color where the resources are limited and give only a very few the opportunity to succeed. It is one thing to have resources available for everyone to succeed vs having resources available for half to succeed.

Sports has been a blessing in that regards that no matter what community you reside in and the amount of resources available the opportunity to succeed through athletic prowess has increased their chances for those opportunities.


TideSaint
Alabama Fan
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
59961 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

It is one thing to have resources available for everyone to succeed vs having resources available for half to succeed.


My kids go to school in the lowest funded school district in the state, Autauga County.

Hard work is hard work regardless of what resources are given to you. If my kids fail to realize their potential I'm not going to blame it on lack of resources. I'm going to blame them for not working hard enough.

This is 2020. We had a two term black President. We've had black Secretaries of State, black Supreme Court Justices, black billionaires, and so on and so forth.

Personal accountability has taken a back seat in this new "utopia." People don't want to put in the work. They want to be given everything and are prepared to ruin the lives of people who won't give in to their demands.

ETA: Personal accountability goes both ways, too. Hold the cops who committed George Floyd's murder personally accountable for their actions. Don't defund or remove the entire police force of your city over it.

This post was edited on 6/22 at 2:52 pm


TideCPA
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2012
4242 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

I think it goes more in regards to yes the opportunity is there for anyone of color in this country and that has been the biggest change over the last 50+ years but people of color still for the most part have to work a harder.

The problem is withing the communities of color where the resources are limited and give only a very few the opportunity to succeed. It is one thing to have resources available for everyone to succeed vs having resources available for half to succeed.

Can you be specific about what, exactly, someone has to work "harder" to do simply because of their skin color, and what resources, specifically, are unavailable to certain people because of the same?

When you look at household income, Indian Americans have by far the highest median total in the US ($131,746). This is followed by East Asians ($85,349) and then white ($65,865). The list continues with those of Middle Eastern ($56,331), Hawaiian ($50,987), Hispanic ($46,882), American Indian ($39,719) and finally black or AA ($30,555) descent.

If our institutions and resources are inherently discriminatory against people of color, how on earth can people of color with certain ancestry (Indian, East Asian) profit from the system moreso than the people it's supposedly set up to benefit? Additionally, how do these "resources" explain, for example, why Ghanaian Americans have household income of over TWICE what the average black household earns?

As an example, look at per pupil spending in our own state. Greene County's system spending is the third highest in the state, behind only Sheffield City and Mountain Brook. What school "resources" are keeping their students from outperforming Shelby County students, who receive $2,700 dollars less per capita in "resources" per year?


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

Personal accountability has taken a back seat in this new "utopia." People don't want to put in the work. They want to be given everything and are prepared to ruin the lives of people who won't give in to their demands.



I completely agree that personal accountability and accepting responsibility for your own actions is something overlooked nowadays. I teach my children both and to understand how to learn from the decision you make.


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TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

When you look at household income, Indian Americans have by far the highest median total in the US ($131,746)


Without looking at the info I would assume the majority of that comes from their lineage and not something they did or achieved through hard work.

quote:

If our institutions and resources are inherently discriminatory against people of color, how on earth can people of color with certain ancestry (Indian, East Asian) profit from the system moreso than the people it's supposedly set up to benefit? Additionally, how do these "resources" explain, for example, why Ghanaian Americans have household income of over TWICE what the average black household earns?


The problem is the institutions themselves as people want to rely on the federal and even state government to hold their hands. The communities with the most resources that provide the most opportunities are those that get it done at the local level regardless of color.

quote:

As an example, look at per pupil spending in our own state. Greene County's system spending is the third highest in the state, behind only Sheffield City and Mountain Brook. What school "resources" are keeping their students from outperforming Shelby County students, who receive $2,700 dollars less per capita in "resources" per year?


I addressed this in another thread. It is not the amount of spending it is where the money is coming from. In NC the schools systems in the state that receive the most money from the state and federal government have the lowest progress reports for student achievement. The school systems that get the majority of their money from their local/community have the highest results. For spending to be effective the allocation is the most important. When the micromanagement of those funds come from outside the resources are usually not allocated to provide the best opportunity. When they are managed locally they create more opportunity as they meet the needs by being allocated correctly.

I mean ask yourself this. Would your retirement be financially better prepared for by giving money to Social Security and allowing the government to determine how to best set aside your earnings for the future or would you do better not paying into social security and creating your own plan for the future. Which option would you pick. At least for me that is a simple answer.


TideSaint
Alabama Fan
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
59961 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....


Just give the country back to the Native Americans and send me to an island where it is warm.


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TideCPA
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2012
4242 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

Without looking at the info I would assume the majority of that comes from their lineage and not something they did or achieved through hard work.
Wow, that's quite an assumption. I'm sure you have some statistics to explain how "lineage" comprises the 100%+ variance in household earnings from their white counterparts. Just to be clear, your position is that it has nothing to do with a culture laser focused on STEM education, but simply passive earnings from freeloading trust fund kids?
quote:

The problem is the institutions themselves as people want to rely on the federal and even state government to hold their hands. The communities with the most resources that provide the most opportunities are those that get it done at the local level regardless of color.
That's not racism. That's classism. People will inevitably cluster around others on the same general segment of nature's bell curve. It's a tale as old as time. Again, this isn't evidence that someone is being deprived resources because of their skin color.
quote:

I addressed this in another thread. It is not the amount of spending it is where the money is coming from. In NC the schools systems in the state that receive the most money from the state and federal government have the lowest progress reports for student achievement. The school systems that get the majority of their money from their local/community have the highest results. When the micromanagement of those funds come from outside the resources are usually not allocated to provide the best opportunity. When they are managed locally they create more opportunity as they meet the needs by being allocated correctly.
I certainly recognize that schools that receive most of their funding from outside their community are inherently worse performing than their counterparts. However, I can't accept your conclusion that if we simply cut the strings from the federal and state dollars they receive that it will radically change the performance of the worst schools. Resources aren't just money. Resources are parental involvement in schools. They're PTOs. They're extracurriculars. They're an emphasis on learning instilled at home. The post just above talking about how you emphasize personal responsibility and accountability to your kids? That's a local resource. No amount of federal dollars is going to compensate for that for someone without that resource. And again, it has zero to do with skin color.


Bobby OG Johnson
Member since Apr 2015
5934 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....


Bobby OG Johnson
Member since Apr 2015
5934 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....


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1BamaRTR
New Orleans Saints Fan
In Your Head Blvd
Member since Apr 2015
15832 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....


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CrimsonBoz
Alabama Fan
Member since Sep 2014
9237 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
quote:

Without looking at the info I would assume the majority of that comes from their lineage and not something they did or achieved through hard work.
Wow, that's quite an assumption. I'm sure you have some statistics to explain how "lineage" comprises the 100%+ variance in household earnings from their white counterparts. Just to be clear, your position is that it has nothing to do with a culture laser focused on STEM education, but simply passive earnings from freeloading trust fund kids?


With you CPA, that statement will require a lot of backing up.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
I made an assumption which is not the case for all tribes after researching. But I would love to the links to his numbers.

This is some of what I found:

quote:

It is also important to understand that the lack of available jobs on the reservations fuel joblessness at 35% to 85% (varies by reservation) and that 29% of employed Native Americans live below poverty level.


That is the highest poverty level per race in the country. Not sure how you get they are so well off.

quote:

Today more Native American students hope to attend college, but only 17% start college and only 13% have a college degree.


That is the lowest number attending of any race in the country. Not sure how laser focused their STEM efforts are.

Native Americans in the US have the highest poverty rate and the lowest rate for attending and graduating college of any race but yet you are trying to convince me they are financially better off then any other race. Something is not right in the numbers you are presenting here.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
Are you talking about Native Americans or Indian Americans( families form India)?


TideCPA
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2012
4242 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
I’m talking about Indian Americans (from India). I also posted the household income for American Indians, which is is substantially lower.


TideWarrior
Alabama Fan
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
7652 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
In regards to Indian Americans, especially due to STEM education, that reflects those coming here not born or raised in our education system. They account now for the 2nd highest immigration rate in US only behind Mexico.

Which brings another point in regards to STEM education in this country. The lack of resources has us so far behind so many countries in the world in STEM education.

Every test that is recognized internationally for STEM performance including PISA, TIMSS, and NAEP has the US way behind and in some cases near the bottom compared to the rest of the world.

quote:

In summing up the state of STEM in America, the Trump administration’s “Charting a Course for Success” report puts the best spin it can on the STEM issue. It asserts that “Americans’ basic STEM skills have modestly improved over the past two decades” but also admits that we “continue to lag behind many other countries” and that “recent data from a test commonly taken by college-bound high school students found that only 20% are ready for courses typically required for a STEM major.


Over 50% of college STEM degree programs are students on F1 and M1 visas.

So yes their incomes would be higher because them come from a country that provides the best resources for STEM education which is the market for the highest paying jobs in this country.

This post was edited on 6/22 at 8:56 pm


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TideCPA
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2012
4242 posts

re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
Apparently the 168-year-old statue of Andrew Jackson near the White House is next on the agenda.

Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbKLWrgWAAAAhRT?format=jpg&name=large


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