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re: George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key....
Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:39 am to bamameister
Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:39 am to bamameister
quote:That's my point. The general BLM marches and Confederate statue tractor pulls have been pretty diverse affairs. But the crowds pulling down statues of the founders are mostly white twenty-somethings clad in black. That's who's driving the cancel culture mob.
Wouldn't you think that the diversity of protesters would directly reflect on the diversity of statues being targeted?
If folks continue to describe this phenomenon as a "black lives matter" only, they are going to miss the reason for the season.
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Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:40 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Of all the things with statues going on this one seems by far the least egregious, IMHO.
In this specific case the outrage only makes sense to those who haven't actually seen a photo of the statue.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:41 am to TideCPA
quote:
In this specific case the outrage only makes sense to those who haven't actually seen a photo of the statue.
Agreed - in the general context of "removing a statue of Teddy Rosevelt," it is absurd. The details of the removal, the statue itself and the process of it take most all of that away.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:54 am to bamameister
To that point I think and correct me if I’m wrong other groups are using the current climate in order to use it to make gains in their sector. E.g. Marxist, Socialist agendas. It makes sense.
Something one of my professors told me at ten Hoor in regards to other self destructive cultures and I think it applies beautifully here.
“ the trees although the forest was shrinking kept voting for the axe because its handle was made of wood and they believed it was one of them”
A lot of inner city turmoil is caused by locally elected city officials of the same race. Agenda pushing, 0 morality, do whatever it takes to be elected again.
Something one of my professors told me at ten Hoor in regards to other self destructive cultures and I think it applies beautifully here.
“ the trees although the forest was shrinking kept voting for the axe because its handle was made of wood and they believed it was one of them”
A lot of inner city turmoil is caused by locally elected city officials of the same race. Agenda pushing, 0 morality, do whatever it takes to be elected again.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 10:58 am to TideCPA
quote:
That's my point. The general BLM marches and Confederate statue tractor pulls have been pretty diverse affairs. But the crowds pulling down statues of the founders are mostly white twenty-somethings clad in black. That's who's driving the cancel culture mob.
Someone is unhappy and young people are probably always going to be at the forefront of any invasion. That includes the military type as well. Regardless of what CNN would have us believe, all these folks marching through the streets of America don't vote democrats, they are just voting for change. I honestly don't see how even this presidential election is going to silence these crowds at this point. It doesn't seem to be what's on their mind.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 11:10 am to CrimsonBoz
quote:
To that point I think and correct me if I’m wrong other groups are using the current climate in order to use it to make gains in their sector. E.g. Marxist, Socialist agendas. It makes sense.
It felt weeks ago like George Floyd, Black Lives Matter, and I can't Breathe, are words and symbols to rally the troops. A catchphrase, a flag to unite the cause. How in the world would all these diverse people know what's on the minds and hearts of all their fellow protesters? There are a lot of individuals and proactive groups out there for their own unique reasons. In that sense, the looters and rioters among the masses remains.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:02 pm to TideSaint
quote:
You think the majority of this country wants to tear down statues of former Presidents and Union Generals?
No, I think the silent majority is ok with ones that are controversial (in most people's eyes, ie. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Jeff Davis) being relocated into places more appropriate like a Civil War museum or park or something. Some will still bitch, but you can't please everyone. But having them in public places just isn't acceptable to too many today. I don't 100% agree with it, but I do understand it. IMHO, people should grow thicker skin. To forget history is to pave the road to repeating past tragedies.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:16 pm to stomp
quote:
Yes. History books aren't memorials honoring slavery. They are tools used to educate.
Wrong actually as most books used in the public school system are still selective to fit the narrative of how people want this country to be viewed. Yes they show slavery as an atrocity in this country yet forget to go in depth that our founding fathers for the most part were just as guilty but yet we promote them for committing treason.
No different we celebrate those who hit the shores of this country and settled it but yet ignore in those same books what they did to the Native Americans but later when it does not hurt the narrative they talk about the atrocities committed by Jackson to the Cherokee and still later ignore what we did when our great country expanded west.
So no the books do not educate just create a narrative to promote one version of the events.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:19 pm to Carolina Tide
quote:
I don’t see anyone burning books, do you?
Except some history books to be more politically correct are changing the word slavery to other things like indentured servants.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:21 pm to Carolina Tide
quote:
Facts don’t care about your feelings
What facts were you putting out? I only saw your opinion.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:32 pm to CrimsonBoz
quote:
Where does this shite end?! As a History PhD I don’t even know what to do at this point....
So anyone who ever owned a slave, in a time period where it was a social norm, statue is coming down? Regardless of anything else?
I asked someone yesterday the same thing. I guess all Catholic churches and Jewish synagogues are next. The colonization of the Americas, slave trade, and support of the founding fathers to commit treason and allow slavery to flourish in this country was mainly supported financially by the Catholic church and Jewish bankers in the Denmark and surrounding areas.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:33 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
Except some history books to be more politically correct are changing the word slavery to other things like indentured servants.
I mean, you wouldn't want to commit a microaggression and trigger someone by using such harsh language would you?
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:40 pm to TideWarrior
LOL Now you've done it. Bringing religion into the race and socioeconomic discussion. Here come the fireworks.
But you're spot on BTW. Propaganda from everywhere. Truth is based on the perspective of the source. And some sources fail (many times willingly) to see all the fact; especially if they don't support their "truth".
But you're spot on BTW. Propaganda from everywhere. Truth is based on the perspective of the source. And some sources fail (many times willingly) to see all the fact; especially if they don't support their "truth".
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:40 pm to phil4bama
quote:
No, I think the silent majority is ok with ones that are controversial (in most people's eyes, ie. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Jeff Davis) being relocated into places more appropriate like a Civil War museum or park or something. Some will still bitch, but you can't please everyone. But having them in public places just isn't acceptable to too many today. I don't 100% agree with it, but I do understand it. IMHO, people should grow thicker skin. To forget history is to pave the road to repeating past tragedies.
This thread isn't about those statues though. It's about George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant and Francis Scott Key.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 12:53 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
I asked someone yesterday the same thing. I guess all Catholic churches and Jewish synagogues are next. The colonization of the Americas, slave trade, and support of the founding fathers to commit treason and allow slavery to flourish in this country was mainly supported financially by the Catholic church and Jewish bankers in the Denmark and surrounding areas.
So you're saying that religion has a dark and seedy history in allowing social injustice and promoting their own forms of class distinctions?
Speaking of the Catholics of the dark ages who were so oppressive with their Spanish and Holy Inquisitions and attack on anyone, anywhere, who dare to read the bible in their own language it started a worldwide phenomenon called the Reformation. And what came of it? A bunch of people who still today call themselves Protestants, from the term "PROTEST." It could happen again.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 1:20 pm to bamameister
quote:What's striking and somewhat ironic is the religious nature of these protests. The whole movement is complete with its own series of idols, martyrs, clerics, apostates, and non-believers. Anyone who publicly commits sins against the critical theory orthodoxy must be punished and made to apologize for their thoughtcrime. Any symbols deemed incompatible must be removed, and continued non-belief met by force if necessary.
So you're saying that religion has a dark and seedy history in allowing social injustice and promoting their own forms of class distinctions?
Speaking of the Catholics of the dark ages who were so oppressive with their Spanish and Holy Inquisitions and attack on anyone, anywhere, who dare to read the bible in their own language it started a worldwide phenomenon called the Reformation. And what came of it? A bunch of people who still today call themselves Protestants, from the term "PROTEST." It could happen again.
What's wild is the whole thing is endorsed (if not explicitly then tacitly) by the vast majority of our media apparatuses. Which makes you wonder: are they frightened of the mob or are they part of it?
Posted on 6/22/20 at 1:24 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
I asked someone yesterday the same thing. I guess all Catholic churches and Jewish synagogues are next. The colonization of the Americas, slave trade, and support of the founding fathers to commit treason and allow slavery to flourish in this country was mainly supported financially by the Catholic church and Jewish bankers in the Denmark and surrounding areas.
Careful Warrior, that kind of talk could be construed as Facist, neo-Nazi dogma.
See how easy it is to find reason to be offended if one so chooses? I'm not condoning the history you describe, but if I choose to be offended, I am living in the past and am held prisoner by it. It becomes a crutch that explains every failing in my life so I don't have to accept my responsibility for my circumstances.
I am also not making light of the systemic racial inequities that are no doubt present and prevalent. Those things must change so people of color don't have to work twice as hard to attain the same recognition of others. I simply use the above to illustrate how it has been taken and continues to be taken to the extreme.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 1:56 pm to CrimsonBoz
All of you morons who thought this was about Confederate monuments: this is your fault.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 2:03 pm to bamameister
quote:
So you're saying that religion has a dark and seedy history in allowing social injustice and promoting their own forms of class distinctions?
Yes but if people really wanted to blame someone they should know the real history that contributed to the atrocities they feel so strongly against.
The statues are more about a point of reference or something tangible that they can point to for everyone to see and pass blame. The foundation of this country was founded by those in power at the cost of someone else. It was the same protestants that came to this country that committed treason against the crown, took the land of the indigenous people who they later slaughtered or forced them from their homes, and the Mexicans who they decided needed to either leave or come under their control in Texas and out west. Those protestants who protested to practice religion freely landing on the shores of the new world and later protested no taxation without representation.
Posted on 6/22/20 at 2:09 pm to phil4bama
quote:
Careful Warrior, that kind of talk could be construed as Facist, neo-Nazi dogma.
quote:
See how easy it is to find reason to be offended if one so chooses? I'm not condoning the history you describe, but if I choose to be offended, I am living in the past and am held prisoner by it. It becomes a crutch that explains every failing in my life so I don't have to accept my responsibility for my circumstances.
I am not offended by any means just find it interesting the blame is so easily placed but yet it is no where close to the mark. I mean at statue placed on the university grounds that represents a student who died is now the blame of slavery in this country.
quote:
I am also not making light of the systemic racial inequities that are no doubt present and prevalent. Those things must change so people of color don't have to work twice as hard to attain the same recognition of others. I simply use the above to illustrate how it has been taken and continues to be taken to the extreme.
Exactly. You can take down every statue, symbol, or whatever and it will not change what has happened or create change. Right now it is an outlet for those angry and nothing more. Nothing that some hope it will accomplish will happen on the current course it is going. We need real change long term.
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