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re: OT: Corona Panic 2020
Posted on 5/16/20 at 10:55 pm to djsdawg
Posted on 5/16/20 at 10:55 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Trump could have easily handled it good enough to my liking. He didnt.
Give me three bullet points, just three, how he could have handled it better. Please be specific. If you want to do more than three, that's fine too. Thanks in advance.
3
Posted on 5/16/20 at 11:47 pm to deeprig9
Also please try to incorporate this meme into your response, if you can. If you can't, that's ok too.
Posted on 5/17/20 at 12:19 am to deeprig9
quote:
Give me three bullet points
Earlier PPE procurement
Improved messaging throughout
Better testing/tracing system
Posted on 5/17/20 at 8:06 am to djsdawg
quote:
Earlier PPE procurement
Like Chi-nah?
Tell the world that there is no human to human exchange as you are buying up the world supply (including US production)
Posted on 5/17/20 at 8:08 am to djsdawg
quote:
Better testing/tracing system
You blame the federal government for not being better than the free market system?
You understand that this better system still hasn't been implemented anywhere?
Better is a relative term and there isn't a country in the world that isn't working their arse off to get better right now.
Posted on 5/17/20 at 8:33 am to djsdawg
quote:
Earlier PPE procurement
We have not and will not run out of PPE
quote:
Improved messaging throughout
He has been in lock step with WHO and Dr Fauci for the most part, while still trying to give Americans hope
quote:
Better testing/tracing system
For a virus that was suppose to kill 2.2M Americans and being reduced by 95%, seems like we’ve had adequate testing and tracing to the extent anyone could expect....
Posted on 5/17/20 at 4:23 pm to deeprig9
I'll be your huckleberry.
First, he could have not said these things which downplayed the seriousness of the virus:
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. I hope that’s true. But we’re doing great in our country. China, I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s going to all work out fine.”
“In our country, we only have, basically, 12 cases and most of those people are recovering and some cases fully recovered. So it’s actually less.”
The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
“When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
This one is particularly bad. He turned the virus into a political grab.
“Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. … One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over. … And this is their new hoax.”
This was a lie
“Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is.”
This was released on March 10th. Why couldn't he release this statement a month ago?
“My administration is recommending that all Americans, including the young and healthy, work to engage in schooling from home when possible. Avoid gathering in groups of more than 10 people. Avoid discretionary travel. And avoid eating and drinking at bars, restaurants and public food courts. If everyone makes … these critical changes and sacrifices now, we will rally together as one nation and we will defeat the virus. And we’re going to have a big celebration all together. With several weeks of focused action, we can turn the corner and turn it quickly.”
But I digress. We all know Trump says stupid crap. On to bullet point #2:
He could have organized the federal government to supply state with health necessities instead of letting them fight it out amongst themselves.
bullet point #3: He could have had Alex Azar, his appointed covid task force head, to stop pushing anti abortion bills and focus on the pandemic. Dunno man, seems like a dumb use of your time.
bullet point #4: stop publicly disagreeing with Dr Fauci, who's been director of NIAD since 1984, on national TV.
bullet point #5: Release an actual plan to reopen the economy and the states, and then enforce it. Make the companies/corporations responsible for enforcing the guidelines. Have you been out recently? Nothing has changed. No one really cares about social distancing any more. No one is wearing masks. We're setting ourselves up for more failure. The economy HAS to reopen, or it'll get worse for everyone, but the way it has been opened. We didn't learn our lesson.
First, he could have not said these things which downplayed the seriousness of the virus:
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. I hope that’s true. But we’re doing great in our country. China, I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s going to all work out fine.”
“In our country, we only have, basically, 12 cases and most of those people are recovering and some cases fully recovered. So it’s actually less.”
The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
“When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
This one is particularly bad. He turned the virus into a political grab.
“Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. … One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over. … And this is their new hoax.”
This was a lie
“Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is.”
This was released on March 10th. Why couldn't he release this statement a month ago?
“My administration is recommending that all Americans, including the young and healthy, work to engage in schooling from home when possible. Avoid gathering in groups of more than 10 people. Avoid discretionary travel. And avoid eating and drinking at bars, restaurants and public food courts. If everyone makes … these critical changes and sacrifices now, we will rally together as one nation and we will defeat the virus. And we’re going to have a big celebration all together. With several weeks of focused action, we can turn the corner and turn it quickly.”
But I digress. We all know Trump says stupid crap. On to bullet point #2:
He could have organized the federal government to supply state with health necessities instead of letting them fight it out amongst themselves.
bullet point #3: He could have had Alex Azar, his appointed covid task force head, to stop pushing anti abortion bills and focus on the pandemic. Dunno man, seems like a dumb use of your time.
bullet point #4: stop publicly disagreeing with Dr Fauci, who's been director of NIAD since 1984, on national TV.
bullet point #5: Release an actual plan to reopen the economy and the states, and then enforce it. Make the companies/corporations responsible for enforcing the guidelines. Have you been out recently? Nothing has changed. No one really cares about social distancing any more. No one is wearing masks. We're setting ourselves up for more failure. The economy HAS to reopen, or it'll get worse for everyone, but the way it has been opened. We didn't learn our lesson.
Posted on 5/17/20 at 5:42 pm to DubyaDee40
quote:
First, he could have not said these things which downplayed the seriousness of the virus:
I agree. He was talking out of his arse. Who wasn't talking out of their arse with regards to a novel virus that humans are encountering for the first time? That goes for china, the who, the scientific community, repubs and dems alike.
He was wrong. But that puts him with 99.999% of the world on this.
quote:
This one is particularly bad. He turned the virus into a political grab.
He is a counter puncher. I promise you that this was a response. That doesn't make it right or better. But trump doesn't throw the first punch. He's everyone's best friend until they show his thin skin.
quote:
But I digress. We all know Trump says stupid crap. On to bullet point #2:
He could have organized the federal government to supply state with health necessities instead of letting them fight it out amongst themselves.
I don't know that it is the best process for the government to be a single payer. The hospitals and states know their needs better than anyone. They should be procuring themselves for faster access to the front lines. Let the Fed fill in the gaps as needed. That is the best approach to make sure that a hospital doesn't run out (versus getting stuck in a warehouse at direct need or stuck in the wrong state).
I can agree to disagree. The Fed isn't going to take care of 50 states better than the 50 states can for themselves. Regardless of president, they aren't that good.
quote:
bullet point #3: He could have had Alex Azar, his appointed covid task force head, to stop pushing anti abortion bills and focus on the pandemic. Dunno man, seems like a dumb use of your time.
You can share a link with me if you like. So far as I'm aware, the states, counties, and cities are the ones implementing the closure. It isn't in the scope of the federal government to close things. That is what the bill of rights protects for us.
quote:
bullet point #4: stop publicly disagreeing with Dr Fauci, who's been director of NIAD since 1984, on national TV.
I can agree to disagree here. I think Fauci and Birx should be answering questions without Trump there for most of these press conferences. But science and knowledge are evolving. It is absolutely fair and encouraged to question a hypothesis and even aspects to accepted theory.
quote:
bullet point #5: Release an actual plan to reopen the economy and the states, and then enforce it. Make the companies/corporations responsible for enforcing the guidelines. Have you been out recently? Nothing has changed. No one really cares about social distancing any more. No one is wearing masks. We're setting ourselves up for more failure. The economy HAS to reopen, or it'll get worse for everyone, but the way it has been opened. We didn't learn our lesson.
Here is where you are flat out wrong.
The federal government released guidelines. But they are only guidelines. The states, counties, and cities are enforcing and implementing the lockdowns. It is up to them to roll out the opening.
You don't seem to understand what has happened the past 3 months in my opinion.
And as for enforcing these executive orders and codes... people don't understand what the governments are doing. Every order and code can be enforced by a law enforcement officer beating the tar out of a citizen who resists enforcement. Does that pass the sniff test for a walk in the park? Not wearing a mask? Being on the beach?
I wear a mask. I hardly go out (the occasional hike with my family with masks). But it doesn't feel right for the government to be that intrusive. Not here. Not in America. If you are worried. Stay home. If you cant. Wear a mask. Nobody wants to get sick and die. Nobody wants to infect a family member. But the government shouldn't be so arrogant to assume this level of control. If you cant trust people, how come we commit ourselves to a democratic republic where we have to trust people.
This post was edited on 5/17/20 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 5/17/20 at 7:26 pm to meansonny
I'm on beer 10, and my ability to debate is diminished so forgive my shortness.
There's 0 reason for you to disagree with this. In no work environment is it acceptable to publicly disagree with one of your experts. It's absolutely childish to do this in public. You do this in private.
I lost one of my direct subordinates to it in February. And I'm about to go into work in the next 2 weeks and fire someone because we can't afford them anymore. You don't know jack, jack.
This sounds like anti-vaxxer libertarian crap. It's this line of thinking why measles, whooping cough, and all the other things we've developed a vaccine for, and nearly eradicated, are coming back. I can protect myself to a point, but I can't protect myself from the stupid people. That's where I rely on the local government to force people to fall in line. You think I should stay shut in because a group of people don't "believe" in the virus, and aren't getting punished because of it? Where are my rights at that point?
So what you're saying is that my hospital of 200 employees has the funds and political pull necessary to outbid countries around the world for necessary medical supplies. Ok champ.
Libertarian bull crapery again. Nothing that has been done or proposed has been explicitly prohibited in the bill of rights. The closest argument you have is amendment 10.
quote:
I can agree to disagree here. I think Fauci and Birx should be answering questions without Trump there for most of these press conferences. But science and knowledge are evolving. It is absolutely fair and encouraged to question a hypothesis and even aspects to accepted theory.
There's 0 reason for you to disagree with this. In no work environment is it acceptable to publicly disagree with one of your experts. It's absolutely childish to do this in public. You do this in private.
quote:
You don't seem to understand what has happened the past 3 months in my opinion
I lost one of my direct subordinates to it in February. And I'm about to go into work in the next 2 weeks and fire someone because we can't afford them anymore. You don't know jack, jack.
quote:
If you are worried. Stay home. If you cant. Wear a mask.
This sounds like anti-vaxxer libertarian crap. It's this line of thinking why measles, whooping cough, and all the other things we've developed a vaccine for, and nearly eradicated, are coming back. I can protect myself to a point, but I can't protect myself from the stupid people. That's where I rely on the local government to force people to fall in line. You think I should stay shut in because a group of people don't "believe" in the virus, and aren't getting punished because of it? Where are my rights at that point?
quote:
The hospitals and states know their needs better than anyone.
So what you're saying is that my hospital of 200 employees has the funds and political pull necessary to outbid countries around the world for necessary medical supplies. Ok champ.
quote:
That is what the bill of rights protects for us.
Libertarian bull crapery again. Nothing that has been done or proposed has been explicitly prohibited in the bill of rights. The closest argument you have is amendment 10.
Posted on 5/17/20 at 10:20 pm to DubyaDee40
quote:
There's 0 reason for you to disagree with this. In no work environment is it acceptable to publicly disagree with one of your experts. It's absolutely childish to do this in public. You do this in private.
I strongly disagree.
I understand your sentiment on leadership. But leadership also demands being able to differentiate from the pack on key issues to the country. Too many sheeple bow to this invisible God of science when scientists will readily admit that they are discussing and pushing hypothesis and not facts. Trump isn't debating science. He is debating questionable hypothesis. And kudos to trump for not forcing Fauci or Birx to say things that they do not agree with.
quote:
lost one of my direct subordinates to it in February. And I'm about to go into work in the next 2 weeks and fire someone because we can't afford them anymore. You don't know jack, jack.
That has nothing to do with the fact that the federal government isn't shutting the country down (and your apparent lack of understanding of what the states, counties, and cities role in this is).
Is this a strawman of yours? A distraction? Or some weak grasp at internet social justice oppression? That you know someone who died? It doesn't prove that you comprehend a damn thing. If anything, it insinuates that you are snow flaking over your feelings.
quote:
This sounds like anti-vaxxer libertarian crap. It's this line of thinking why measles, whooping cough, and all the other things we've developed a vaccine for, and nearly eradicated, are coming back.
Your reading comprehension is failing you. My kids are vaccinated. Again. I don't need a police officer and a gun to tell me to act with caution.
Are you one of those who deny that we don't know the long term effects of vaccinations? That our thousands of years of evolution don't quite give us a road map to what side effects there may be to the millionth percentage? I vaccinate because I feel it is worth the downside risk. But I'm not an idiot who thinks science understands what happens to the human body when you inject a ton of crap into it for the possible 100 year lifespan. There are risks and we live with those risks. Just like living in a world with coronavirus, car accidents, and layoffs.
quote:
Libertarian bull crapery again. Nothing that has been done or proposed has been explicitly prohibited in the bill of rights. The closest argument you have is amendment 10.
You almost had 1 decent response. Yes. I'm a proud libertarian. The federal government isn't violating the bill of rights (it is local government enacting the crappy measures).
Your confusion is apparent when you think there is some violation in amendment 10. What the hell are you talking about? Amendment 10 is federalism and that's exactly what is being done.
You're drunk. Sleep it off and try again tomorrow. Maybe read up on the world first.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 4:30 pm to meansonny
quote:
Too many sheeple bow to this invisible God of science when scientists will readily admit that they are discussing and pushing hypothesis and not facts. Trump isn't debating science. He is debating questionable hypothesis. And kudos to trump for not forcing Fauci or Birx to say things that they do not agree with.
Imagine calling someone who devotes themselves to knowledge and testing of that knowledge a sheep. Trump basis his "knowledge" on "feelings" if you want a snowflake. It's people like this. They don't want to be proven wrong. They just want to be right. I'll gladly accept the day I'm wrong, and change my opinion. That's what science is about. Trump, and the people that worship and make excuses for Trump, are those that base their opinions on how they feel. It's what most closely correlates with their own self deterministic basis. Facts? Science? Testing? That doesn't matter to people like Trump. It's how they feel about it. Why do you think Trump surrounds himself with boot lickers? Because they make him feel good about himself.
quote:
I don't need a police officer and a gun to tell me to act with caution.
YOU don't, but you're a reasonable human being with decent morals as proven by previous comments. But I get what you're trying to say. Here's the thing. Bad people exist. Bad people will take advantage of those who are unable to take care of themselves.
Take for example the price gougers. Since you're a Libertarian, you think those price gougers were completely in the right to take advantage of the situation correct?
As a Libertarian, who do you side with when it comes to theft? Do you say that you're on the side of the rich man and his right to accumulate wealth an their pursuit of luxurious wealth? Or do you agree with the poor man and his right to take from the rich man's wealth to fulfill his basic of needs?
All philosophical of course, and it's outside what we're talking about. I'll never pretend I can change a person's core beliefs on an online forum. I just want to point out your hypocrisy when you thump your chest and proudly shout you're a Libertarian.
quote:
You almost had 1 decent response. Yes. I'm a proud libertarian
Yeah, I could tell from the way you respond. You think America is about being free regardless of the cost of human life. Selfish at best. Sociopath at worst.
quote:
Your confusion is apparent when you think there is some violation in amendment 10. What the hell are you talking about? Amendment 10 is federalism and that's exactly what is being done
You're right. I was confused, because I couldn't figure out why you'd drop the bill of rights out of the blue when it has nothing to do with anything, anyone, anywhere was talking about. I tried to connect the dots, and that's where amendment 10 came in. I guess I was pretty close considering your response.
I think what you're saying is that you are diametrically opposed to granting the federal government any more power to handle this situation. You believe that the states should be the ones to self govern, and open or close businesses. Is that what you're getting at? Just trying to get a clearer picture.
Posted on 5/18/20 at 6:13 pm to DubyaDee40
What in tarnation is going on in this thread
Posted on 5/19/20 at 8:54 am to olddawg26
quote:
What in tarnation is going on in this thread
A microcosm of our divided nation.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:19 am to Whiznot
quote:
On 2-27-2020 my guess of US coronavirus deaths this year was 1,000,000 people. Now I think that more than that will die.
quote:
Whiznot
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:53 am to olddawg26
quote:
What in tarnation is going on in this thread
I think he just accused libertarians of being selfish and possible sociopaths.
There is always a change of tone when someone accuses an opposing opinion of having ill-intent. I wasn't expecting such a SJW response.
I thought of replying with regards to his mis-understanding of who qualifies as sheeple. But there is no point in discussing thoughts and ideas with SJW. Those threads end in accusations of being racist, sexist, nazis. When people who hold opposing opinions to his are evil or insane, why not punch a nazi. That is the inevitable SJW way.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 11:56 am to DawgCountry
Whiznutjob:
Me:
Looks like your million is off and looks like Vegas is reopening June 1....
You and DJS should think about coming up out of your butt-bunker and get some fresh air
quote:
Vegas is a ghost town and will be for a good while
Me:
quote:
Once again, Whiznutjob with his generalizations that he can spin later on. “Ghost town” and “good while.” Really clear there. At least you stuck your big foot in your mouth a couple weeks ago claiming 1M people would die this year even with restrictions.
Obviously large conventions won’t be back soon, but as far as being a “ghost town” for a “good while,” is incorrect...unless you simply mean no open casinos for a couple weeks. City will be opening Casinos by end of May, which will bring hundreds of thousands of people to Vegas. That’s not a “ghost town” and certainly a few weeks off is not “a good while.”
I assume based on you thinking we won’t be playing football this year, a “good while” in your standards is 2021.
Looks like your million is off and looks like Vegas is reopening June 1....
You and DJS should think about coming up out of your butt-bunker and get some fresh air
Posted on 5/19/20 at 1:41 pm to IT_Dawg
I was honestly expecting all of their prediction posts to be edited like the cowards they are
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:23 pm to DubyaDee40
quote:
bullet point #5: Release an actual plan to reopen the economy and the states, and then enforce it. Make the companies/corporations responsible for enforcing the guidelines. Have you been out recently? Nothing has changed. No one really cares about social distancing any more. No one is wearing masks. We're setting ourselves up for more failure. The economy HAS to reopen, or it'll get worse for everyone, but the way it has been opened. We didn't learn our lesson.
The only way for the federal government to do this would be to declare martial law and put troops in every city in the United States. These rules can only be enforced at the local level and it is up to the governors of each state to see that it is enforced everywhere. But when a governor opens things because he/she wants to get votes in the next election, things will not work well.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 5:24 pm to IT_Dawg
tDecline looks really good so far. I’m really hopeful that everything stays this way.
Obviously 100,000 people dying is a tragedy, but overall would be a huge win for the country keeping the numbers down that low is awesome.
Obviously 100,000 people dying is a tragedy, but overall would be a huge win for the country keeping the numbers down that low is awesome.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 5:30 pm to Dawgsontop34
quote:
Obviously 100,000 people dying is a tragedy, but overall would be a huge win for the country keeping the numbers down that low is awesome.
Yep. Knowing that flu deaths among elderly go largely unrecorded, and the flu season two years ago killed 79,000, for us to get through Rona with only 100,000 in an overreported method, that would be magnificent. [let the bait soak]
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