re: OT: Corona Panic 2020

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bullshite.

So you're one of those naive folks who believes when there's an incentive that involves more money for a certain result, that everyone is being honest.

LOL, frickoff.

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And you're one of those that believes ALL docs are going against their Hippocratic oath for money (that they personally never see). It's not an all-or-nothing proposition, but the vast majority are simply not doing this.

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Eat a dick. I have logged into Facebook maybe twice in 3 years, and that was only to sell a trampoline my kids grew out of on some local thing.

Stop being that a-hole that thinks if you say something, it must have come from Fox News or some bullshite meme somewhere.

You lose all credibility when that's your retarded argument.

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You are literally regurgitating about 90% of the Facebook memes and rumors in your posts, but you do you.

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NO, it shouldn't.

There is ZERO WAY of knowing if COVID played a part, but they are saying that definitively it did.

That's the point. They are guessing and assuming something that isn't definitive or fact.

As time goes by and more and more testing and studies are being done, the number of people who had asymptomatic COVID is growing.

How the frick do we know if any of these deaths were asymptomatic and completely unaffected by the virus, but still tested positive for it, and died of other factors?

You don't. So get fricked with your "assumption" method of tallying COVID deaths.

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Medicine, by and large, is guesswork. Simple process of elimination in most cases. And you are wrong on this. The people dying didn't go to the hospital because they were 95, or because they were fat, or because they had liver disease or anything else. The ones presenting to hospitals are coming and being admitted there because of COVID symptoms, typically involving low O2 sats as a result of difficulty breathing. Whatever conditions they had before that are absolutely worsened by the effect of the virus and things they could have lived with for decades with ongoing treatment could kill them in days. This isn't rocket science.

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No, we don't. We "assume" they are COVID-related.

And I've already posted proof of how supposedly flu cases plummeted in NY almost the moment COVID testing rolled out, and flu cases were supposedly at a 100 year high prior to that. How convenient that worked out.

So yes, they are very much related. There are not 80k "additional" deaths above the norm. People who would have previously been cataloged as dying of the flu (or some other ailment or event) are being considered COVID deaths, and anyone with a brain sees this.

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Not how it works. Every one of these people presenting to hospitals are tested for the flu and for COVID. If they are positive for COVID and they die, that's likely what the death will be attributed to. Is there some overlap? I would be surprised if there weren't. But if you test positive for COVID, you test positive for COVID. And all 80k did not ALSO HAVE THE FLU; thus, the vast majority of that number are additional deaths.

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I don't give a shite what your political leanings are. You're a fricking douche for using the "Facebook meme" bullshite as an argument and can go eat a giant bag of dicks.

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Yes, you absolutely do. You're working from an extreme far-right point of view with your arguments (or lack thereof) and seem entirely incapable of examining all angles involved. Your mind is made up. You have no reasonable argument outside of your wild opinions/accusations and this is evidenced by your inability to discuss this without going off the rails with ad hominem attacks.

Good day, sir.

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And you're one of those that believes ALL docs are going against their Hippocratic oath for money (that they personally never see). It's not an all-or-nothing proposition, but the vast majority are simply not doing this.

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My wife has been a nurse for nearly 25 years and is in management at Kennestone Hospital, working there for about 22 years.

The Doctors are awesome, but the administration are corporatist money-grubbing lying and cheating fricks that play politics and care only about profit.

And if you don't think they've told the doctors to declare someone a COVID death if they tested positive for COVID, or else, and those doctors aren't abiding, then like I said, you're a naive buffoon.

And the Hippocratic Oath says to do no harm to anyone. Declaring someone a COVID death that tests positive, even if they had n+1 other ailments that likely caused the death, isn't breaking that oath. So GTFO with that nonsense.

And as explained, there is nothing but ambiguity with this virus. The doctors have no clue if COVID was THE CAUSE in cases of people with underlying circumstances or if it was something else. So for them to make the declaration, they aren't lying, they just aren't making a decision based on 100% certainty.

And that's an indisputable fact. If you're going to sit here and demand to me that some 400 lb fat frick who's already had 2 double bypass surgeries and has 300 cholesterol absolutely positively 100% died from COVID and not from his 3rd heart-attack, just because a doctor said so, then frick you and frick the bullshite horse you road in on, because you're an idiot and suck at life.

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You are literally regurgitating about 90% of the Facebook memes and rumors in your posts, but you do you.

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Right, me investigating and finding the NY State Health Department flu report registry, and posting it with a page long analysis is a goddamn Facebook meme.

Damn I can't stand ignorant pricks like you. Seriously, eat shite.

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Medicine, by and large, is guesswork. Simple process of elimination in most cases. And you are wrong on this. The people dying didn't go to the hospital because they were 95, or because they were fat, or because they had liver disease or anything else. The ones presenting to hospitals are coming and being admitted there because of COVID symptoms, typically involving low O2 sats as a result of difficulty breathing. Whatever conditions they had before that are absolutely worsened by the effect of the virus and things they could have lived with for decades with ongoing treatment could kill them in days.

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No shite it's "guesswork".

It's astounding how you just said what I said, that there's nothing definite or fact, that it's guesswork, and then you go on to call me wrong and act like it isn't fricking guesswork.

Again, my wife is a nurse. I have all the stories about who's coming in to her hospital for treatment. Your generalization that ALL of them are the same is simply not true.

And, we're not even talking about just hospitals. I clearly said municipalities, too. People are dying in nursing homes, hospice, on the streets in cardboard boxes, simply found in their homes after some times... and the county/city/state is forced to handle the body. And there absolutely are instances of those people being counted as COVID deaths simply because they test positive posthumously.

You do realize that millions of people die every year and it doesn't happen in a hospital, right?

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This isn't rocket science.

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No shite. And apparently you don't care about the science of it.

If you did, you would easily understand that if millions of people have had COVID, but were completely asymptomatic and unaffected by it, that without question SOME of the people that have died while testing positive were also assuredly asymptomatic and unaffected by it.

There is no fricking way that you can sit here and say it's 100% fact that every one of those 80,000 was a legit COVID death. No way.

And yet, you're demanding that they all are, and insulting and impugning me with generalizations and baseless claims of bias and lack of integrity.

frick... OFF.

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My friend's dad fell and broke his hip and was admitted to a hospital in FL. They auto-tested him for covid. Bingo, he tested positive. He was recently released, but lets say that hip had complications and killed him. Do you think covid would or would not be listed as the cause of death for the purposes of covid reporting and statistics?

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Anecdotal and hypothetical. But let's assume this happened.

As I understand it, if he is TREATED for COVID, then they would likely list it on his death certificate. The whole idea behind them getting more money is their argument that it costs more to treat (which isn't something I can dispute, overpricing of healthcare not withstanding). Given that the average time in the hopsital was soemwhere around 2-3 weeks, that would totally make sense. No idea whether or not it would be listed in conjunction with anything else, but I think that all depends on what actually kills him. People who have died from strokes have been listed with COVID as a COD because COVID has shown to increase the incidence of blood clots for whatever reason. Thus, they can reasonably tie the two things together. The hip would be a longer stretch, I would think. Again, to assume all incidents like this would be treated the same way across the board would be disingenuous. There are many factors at play.

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(hint: Dr. Birx on national TV, live, answered a reporter's question about possible undercounting of covid deaths, and she assured they are counting every single death while covid+ as a covid-caused death, regardless of actual cause of death, to ensure complete counting, and even doing post-mortem covid testing to encompass as many deaths as possible)

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Yeah, listen, I heard it. I was watching it live. I don't know if it's what she intended to say exactly, but I would think that her INTENT was that it would be counted as a death resulting from complications of COVID infection, not necessarily a direct result thereof. And I don't think that's a major stretch. They can't just ignore the fact that the person was positive and died, either, completely dimissing any correlation.

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My wife has been a nurse for nearly 25 years and is in management at Kennestone Hospital, working there for about 22 years.

The Doctors are awesome, but the administration are corporatist money-grubbing lying and cheating fricks that play politics and care only about profit.

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My wife is a nurse as well and has been for 14 years herself. I do not, at all, dispute what you say about the hospital administrators. You are absolutely correct on that point and it's the main reason that so many hospitals found their clinical staff without the necessary PPE early on.

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And if you don't think they've told the doctors to declare someone a COVID death if they tested positive for COVID, or else, and those doctors aren't abiding, then like I said, you're a naive buffoon.

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While I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did, it would be foolish to believe that every doctor just nodded their head and agreed to it. There are many on record that have gone out of their way to dispel this idea.

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And the Hippocratic Oath says to do no harm to anyone. Declaring someone a COVID death that tests positive, even if they had n+1 other ailments that likely caused the death, isn't breaking that oath. So GTFO with that nonsense.

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So you see no harm in lying to patients or the general public and creating mass hysteria if there's genuinely nothing to be concerned about?

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And as explained, there is nothing but ambiguity with this virus. The doctors have no clue if COVID was THE CAUSE in cases of people with underlying circumstances or if it was something else. So for them to make the declaration, they aren't lying, they just aren't making a decision based on 100% certainty.

And that's an indisputable fact. If you're going to sit here and demand to me that some 400 lb fat frick who's already had 2 double bypass surgeries and has 300 cholesterol absolutely positively 100% died from COVID and not from his 3rd heart-attack, just because a doctor said so, then frick you and frick the bullshite horse you road in on, because you're an idiot and suck at life

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You're splitting hairs. No doctor makes decisions on 100% certainty and I have to think you know this. If a person with a heart condition contracts COVID and passes from a heart attack that is brought on by the combination of high fever and breathing difficulty DIRECTLY CAUSED by COVID infection, you see no need for COVID to be included as a contributing factor in their death? You are WAY oversimplifying.

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Right, me investigating and finding the NY State Health Department flu report registry, and posting it with a page long analysis is a goddamn Facebook meme.

Damn I can't stand ignorant pricks like you. Seriously, eat shite.

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I haven't seen your post as I have no intention of sifting through pages upon pages of mostly useless drivel to find it. If you want to link it, I'm happy to oblige you.

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No shite it's "guesswork".

It's astounding how you just said what I said, that there's nothing definite or fact, that it's guesswork, and then you go on to call me wrong and act like it isn't fricking guesswork.

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You need to stay on-point. I never said anything wasn't guesswork. In fact, again, I literally said much of medicine is exactly that. And connecting COVID to these deaths is an educated guess made by the doctors involved in patient care. You have no way to definitively prove them right or wrong, but you are attempting to definitely say that they are lying to increase the count. So make up your mind.

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Again, my wife is a nurse. I have all the stories about who's coming in to her hospital for treatment. Your generalization that ALL of them are the same is simply not true.

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I have the same line in to what's going on that you do, so you can take that nonsense elsewhere. I have never said that any case was the same as another. It goes without saying that they are not. You're generalizing that pretty much every death is happening as a result of something else and being classified as COVID. Are you even listening to yourself? What does a person have to die of for YOU to be convinced that COVID was the culprit? Enlighten me. Or ask your wife.

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And, we're not even talking about just hospitals. I clearly said municipalities, too. People are dying in nursing homes, hospice, on the streets in cardboard boxes, simply found in their homes after some times... and the county/city/state is forced to handle the body. And there absolutely are instances of those people being counted as COVID deaths simply because they test positive posthumously.

You do realize that millions of people die every year and it doesn't happen in a hospital, right?

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Sure there are. Are they the bulk of 80k dead? Is it completely unreasonable, again, to determine that COVID played a role in their death? Should it just be ignored and swept under the rug? How would YOU handle it.

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No shite. And apparently you don't care about the science of it.

If you did, you would easily understand that if millions of people have had COVID, but were completely asymptomatic and unaffected by it, that without question SOME of the people that have died while testing positive were also assuredly asymptomatic and unaffected by it.

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No one ever said that SOME don't die of other causes.
You've simply implied that it's happening on some astronomical scale and that we should not believe the 80k number is even close to accurate. Asymptomatic individuals typically do present symptoms, eventually. They are often only asymptomatic at the time of testing. Consider people in the same household of a COVID-positive family member. They all get tested, too, many before they have any symptoms. They may be positive, but will be listed as asymptomatic. That doesn't mean they stay that way.

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There is no fricking way that you can sit here and say it's 100% fact that every one of those 80,000 was a legit COVID death. No way.

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I haven't. I've said that if they had COVID and passed, it isn't unreasonable to count them based on what we know about its impact on various systems of the body. Nor can you say that most of them should not be counted. Again, this isn't all-or-nothing. There are exceptions and examples that go against the norm and that is to be expected.

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And yet, you're demanding that they all are, and insulting and impugning me with generalizations and baseless claims of bias and lack of integrity.

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I have demanded nothing. And how have I insulted you, exactly? Compare our posts and then let me know who's doing the insulting. You certainly do have a bias. I'm not sure how you can argue against that.

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frick... OFF.

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You just can't help yourself.

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So no doctors or hospitals over-prescribe drugs or send people to get MRI's and CT scans and procedures they don't need, simply because it pays them more money?

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Exception or rule?


You need some help, dude. You've got legit anger issues.

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While I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did, it would be foolish to believe that every doctor just nodded their head and agreed to it. There are many on record that have gone out of their way to dispel this idea.

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Where did I say "every doctor" or "every case"?

You backed yourself in a corner and are now putting words in my mouth that I never said just to try and get yourself out.


I said that the 80,000 number wasn't really accurate, and you said it was.

No numbers came from me. I didn't say a percentage because my argument is based on nobody definitely knowing, and that was always my point.

They are undoubtedly classifying some of those 80,000 as COVID deaths wrongly, and your replies flat out claimed I was wrong. Which means your claim is that the 80,000 is accurate. You even said verbatim, it's accurate.

But NOW look at you. Suddenly you're saying it's not definite, and being hyperbolic and acting like I said some huge number when I never did.

You're being an a-hole here, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

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I haven't seen your post as I have no intention of sifting through pages upon pages of mostly useless drivel to find it. If you want to link it, I'm happy to oblige you.

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Well isn't that convenient.

You don't know what I've posted in this thread, but you didn't have a problem claiming all I've posted in this thread is far-right Facebook meme bullshite.

Again... you... a-hole.

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You need to stay on-point. I never said anything wasn't guesswork. In fact, again, I literally said much of medicine is exactly that. And connecting COVID to these deaths is an educated guess made by the doctors involved in patient care. You have no way to definitively prove them right or wrong, but you are attempting to definitely say that they are lying to increase the count. So make up your mind.

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LOLWTF?

I say the 80,000 number is merely inaccurate because doctors and hospitals and municipalities can't be 100% certain.

YOU claim it's accurate and I'm wrong.

But now you're saying doctors and hospitals can't be 100% certain.

And I'm supposedly the one off point?

WTF, man....

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Sure there are. Are they the bulk of 80k dead? Is it completely unreasonable, again, to determine that COVID played a role in their death? Should it just be ignored and swept under the rug? How would YOU handle it.

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Why do I have to know how to handle it?

All I know is there's a lot of bullshite politics going on with this thing, and those numbers getting thrown around are being used in political arguments by government officials who actually make decisions that effect our lives.

And I'm just one of the many MANY folks that's pissed off about it because our government, BOTH SIDES, along with corporatists and unscrupulous profiteers, have ZERO credibility and are most assuredly exploiting this thing one way or another for an agenda that will likely hurt people somehow.

I'm not just being cynical about it, either. Politicians, their cronies, and money-grubbing fricks have proven time and time again that they are liars, thieves, and cheats, and they will do and say anything to sustain their status or political power.

The Democrats and Doomers want so bad for that 80,000 number to sound bad and even be worse. They'd never admit it, and in fact would surely deny it, but they can't help but prove post after post that they are using it as an excuse to demean and hate on Trump and anyone that isn't "on their side".

These are the same fricking people who just spent 3+ years propagating lies and spinning bullshite to try and oust a duly elected President. They aren't honest and they have no integrity or credibility.

There freaking fraud and dishonesty everywhere all around us at all times. Droves of it as far as the eye can see. Year after year. Lie after lie. Our tax dollars essentially being stolen by lawmakers on a goddamn daily basis.

And yet, in this one case, you want to believe it's all accurate and legit?

*sigh* SMH

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I have demanded nothing. And how have I insulted you, exactly?

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You said the number was accurate. You said I was wrong. You said I'm such a dolt that I'm just parroting rightwing Facebook memes. And now you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

And you don't think you've insulted me? And you wonder why I'm a pejorative spitting fool at you?

Dude, you need some serious introspection.

I know I'm an a-hole, but only to other assholes.

You brought up Medicare fraud. I was just sharing information.

I thought we were in the trust tree - in the nest. Are we not?

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No it's not. You can act like you did smoking cessation with a patient when all you really did was say so smoking. Fraudulent as hell and pretty common practice.

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Thanks, I'll make a note to look out for this scenario on my next audit.

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No it's not.

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My old college roommate got nailed for it.
Avoided jail by giving up his partner but
his atty fees put em in a huge hole.