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re: Mullen blew it, too
Posted on 12/13/20 at 10:14 am to MeatCleaverWeaver
Posted on 12/13/20 at 10:14 am to MeatCleaverWeaver
quote:
I’d hate to be in his shoe.
FIFY
0
Posted on 12/13/20 at 11:05 am to meansonny
quote:
Betting that he makes it was probably the correct bet. We will never know, I guess.
Normally. But when the kick is rushed, in a hostile stadium, with thick fog it changes things a bit. I mean, I get your point, but giving the kicker time to get settled in makes a difference. Think about it. A Long snapper and holder having to rush things combined with a kicker having to rush out to the field get set up, step off his position and then kick under enormous pressure in a thick fog?
And remember....Florida has a great kicker too, and he missed a shorter FG.
This post was edited on 12/13/20 at 11:10 am
Posted on 12/13/20 at 11:09 am to DawgCountry
quote:
Mullen can’t make the kicks. It’s his job to get his team in position to win the game. They did not execute
I get it, but my position is that he did not put his team into position to win. He put LSU in position to win and that is what happened.
Granted, I have never been a kicker, but if I were I would much rather have had time to take a deep breath and settle down rather than having to rush out on the field get set up and make a hurried 57 yard kick in a thick fog. All of those compounds the kick significantly...or they would for me.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 11:17 am to DawgsLife
quote:
But when the kick is rushed, in a hostile stadium, with thick fog it changes things a bit.
Well. There was fog and an opponents stadium. He nailed it. Perfect.
As for rushed... they practice it.
Remember UGA 2012 SECCG where we didnt call timeout because we wanted to challenge Bama at the goalline, rushed, in a hostile stadium... and bama executed.
As fans, we overthink things.
When a plan doesnt work, the automated fan response is that the alternative would have been better.
If the LSU kicker nailed the kick without the timeout, the argument is that Mullen didn't have faith in his team to get a chance to tie it (that is a worse narrative if they lose where the coach didnt provide the opportunity for his team that only would have cost a timeout that he had. Is it better to lose with the timeout unused or timeout used? From a logic perspective, you empty all of your assets before you lose.
This post was edited on 12/13/20 at 11:22 am
Posted on 12/13/20 at 11:20 am to DawgsLife
quote:
get it, but my position is that he did not put his team into position to win. He put LSU in position to win and that is what happened.
Big disagreement here.
When LSU makes the kick and there are 10 seconds on the clock, mullen would not have put his team in a chance to tie it.
The general coaching philosophy is to extend the game as long as possible. Dont lose the game early. Keep your team in contention as long as possible.
(This is why teams still punt the ball down 2 scores early in the 4th quarter. Dont blow your wad unnecessarily. Keep your team in it as long as possible.)
Posted on 12/13/20 at 11:27 am to meansonny
quote:
As for rushed... they practice it.
Totally different under real game conditions. Most on here have played at least on the high school level, so I am going to assume you have, too. practice is great and helps, but in no way is practice anywhere close to game type situation.
quote:Yep...and the team trying to score did not because they rushed?
Remember UGA 2012 SECCG where we didnt call timeout because we wanted to challenge Bama at the goalline, rushed, in a hostile stadium... and bama executed.
quote:Because quite often it is better. For instance...which is better? Punting the ball in the SECCG, or trying a fake punt? Is it overthinking things to assume a punt would have been better?
When a plan doesnt work, the automated fan response is that the alternative would have been better.
I have been in pressure situations in a game in which being able to calm our nerves and get settled because of a TO definitely helped win a game.
Hey...it's all speculation because Mullen did call a TO and the kicker nailed it. Had the kicker missed the 57 yard FG I would be right there on your side saying Mullen did the right thing.
quote:If you lose either way, I am not sure either is better.
Is it better to lose with the timeout unused or timeout used?
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:03 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Totally different under real game conditions. Most on here have played at least on the high school level, so I am going to assume you have, too. practice is great and helps, but in no way is practice anywhere close to game type situation.
You and I have a different impression of what the kickers job is.
Running onto the field in 40 seconds to kick the ball isnt as difficult in my opinion as you make it seem.
40 seconds. The same amount of time as any kick without a timeout. This wasnt a special circumstance. Hell. After the timeout, the playclock is only 25 seconds.
Agree to disagree.
quote:
Yep...and the team trying to score did not because they rushed
You either missed the point or just like to argue. You rush the opponent. Playing hurry up on offense is usually considered a good thing. Playing hurry up on offense is usually considered a tool in the tool box or a weapon that can be deployed against a good defense to make them uncomfortable. Maybe you have never heard of that before. It is a thing.
quote:
quote:
When a plan doesnt work, the automated fan response is that the alternative would have been better.
Because quite often it is better.
That is an extremely simplistic look at football.
Did mizzou lose by 5 scores to UGA because the mizzou coaches made poor playcalls? Or did Mizzou lose to UGA because UGA is better? A lot of times, choice A and choice B wont get the job done when the other team just executes better.
quote:
Punting the ball in the SECCG, or trying a fake punt? Is it overthinking things to assume a punt would have been better?
Let's over think it.
If you punt to Bama and they have a 90% chance at scoring 3 points... is that better odds than going for it on 4th down where we have a 30% chance of getting the first down and not giving them the ball.
That is 100% of the mindset into going for it on 4th down. With a mobile QB like Hurts and our linebacker play in 2018 (murdered by mobile QBs), they probably werent wrong.
quote:
quote:
Is it better to lose with the timeout unused or timeout used?
If you lose either way, I am not sure either is better.
As a coach, Mullen is the bigger fool to lose as time runs out without calling the timeout to give his offense a chance. Coaching is about putting your team in position. Mullen did that with the timeout. Lsu still had to make a 57 yarder. Florida still had to make a shorter fg. The special teams at LSU won out. But florida wouldn't have even had the opportunity if it hadnt of been for the timeout.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:10 pm to meansonny
quote:
When LSU makes the kick and there are 10 seconds on the clock, mullen would not have put his team in a chance to tie it.
You are assuming that the kicker makes it under those circumstances. Again. Looking at a 57 yard FG, would you rather be rushed and hurrying to kick in a thick fog, or have plenty of time to get set up properly?
Everything has to go almost perfectly to make a 57 yard FG as to snap, hold and kick. You eliminate a hurried rushed kick and you leave one condition that is not ideal left...the fog. Every other negative condition was taken away with the timeout.
To fully understand you would have to be involved in a similar situation to understand the logistics of getting a kicking unit on the field under duress and the confusion that is going on on the field. It's just a tough, tough situation.
Hey. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us can prove our point one way or the other. It's almost a shame that there isn't an alternative universe in which we could see how things would have turned out if he had not called timeout.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:12 pm to meansonny
quote:Dude. there was 27 seconds left on the clock, not 40. HUGE difference. Teams get delay of game penalties all the time when they have a 40 play clock.
You and I have a different impression of what the kickers job is.
Running onto the field in 40 seconds to kick the ball isnt as difficult in my opinion as you make it seem.
40 seconds.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:18 pm to meansonny
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there was about 15 seconds left on the clock (the play clock, not the game clock) when the kicker was lined up and ready for the snap. So it was not exactly a rushed kick. It was the longest FG in LSU football history, though.
This post was edited on 12/13/20 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:25 pm to DawgsLife
They were set up with plenty of time left to get it right.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:43 pm to DawgsLife
It’s the right call if the kick is inside 50 yards or so in good conditions and you’re pretty sure he’ll make it.
But, forcing a rushed 57 yarder to win the game in that fog is probably the better move there.
Edit: but I remember there only being 27 seconds left after the tackle of the previous play.
But, forcing a rushed 57 yarder to win the game in that fog is probably the better move there.
Edit: but I remember there only being 27 seconds left after the tackle of the previous play.
This post was edited on 12/13/20 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:50 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
They were set up with plenty of time left to get it right.
Could be right. I am looking for the full game to check everything. I was thinking players were rushing around trying to get on the field when the to was called. I know when the kick was eventually kicked there was 27 seconds left.
ETA
I don't see it. Too early maybe?
I
'll be happy to admit if they were already set up for the try with 27 seconds left. I'll try to check the play clock, too.
This post was edited on 12/13/20 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:57 pm to DawgsLife
It still would have been rushed but they were setting up with around 20 seconds. Plenty of time for a good kick
Posted on 12/13/20 at 12:59 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
It’s the right call if the kick is inside 50 yards or so in good conditions and you’re pretty sure he’ll make it.
But, forcing a rushed 57 yarder to win the game in that fog is probably the better move there.
That's my thought.
quote:Was just looking at highlights and there is definitely 27 seconds on clock when the actual field goal is snapped and kicked. My thinking, though is that players were rushing around on the field and if Florida takes their time getting subs in (LSU has to give them time since they substituted) the clock would probably be down to 6 or 7 seconds when they get the go ahead for the play.)
Edit: but I remember there only being 27 seconds left after the tackle of the previous play.
People don't realize how long it takes to get players on and off the field, then the holder has to get into place, and the kicker to line up for the kick.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 1:03 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
It still would have been rushed but they were setting up with around 20 seconds. Plenty of time for a good kick
All right....now you've got me doubting myself!
I am really anxious to see the actual footage to see what all was going on on the field. The clock (I am positive) was stopped at 27 seconds with the timeout. I just looked at the highlights. But I am thinking they were still trying to get on and off the field.
It's funny how we all watched the same game and came away with different thoughts of what was happening. When you are on the field it is much more confusing. That's why there are so many calls of "Too many/few players on the field"...delay of game etc. Fog of war.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 1:20 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
I see a thread about the clete throw, and it was spot on. A total lack of self control. (I'm just glad it happened to them and not us)
However, a lot of people gloss over the fact that that Mullen called timeout with the clock ticking and only 27 seconds left in the game. LSU was going to have to get their FG team on the field, set up and take a shot of the go ahead FG with time continuing to tick slowly away. They might have gotten the kick away, but the confusion and rush would have made the kick much more difficult to make. With the time out it gave LSU time to gather their thoughts and the kicker time to settle down and get ready for the kick.
Don't underestimate how big that was
Thought it was a big mistake when it happened. Announcers questioned it. He’s not the genius he thinks.
Posted on 12/13/20 at 1:44 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
You are assuming that the kicker makes it under those circumstances. Again. Looking at a 57 yard FG, would you rather be rushed and hurrying to kick in a thick fog, or have plenty of time to get set up properly?
Everything has to go almost perfectly to make a 57 yard FG as to snap, hold and kick. You eliminate a hurried rushed kick and you leave one condition that is not ideal left...the fog. Every other negative condition was taken away with the timeout.
To fully understand you would have to be involved in a similar situation to understand the logistics of getting a kicking unit on the field under duress and the confusion that is going on on the field. It's just a tough, tough situation.
Hey. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us can prove our point one way or the other. It's almost a shame that there isn't an alternative universe in which we could see how things would have turned out if he had not called timeout.
Assume LSU misses the kick.
You dont think fans would complain about Mullen sitting on the timeout to give his offense a chance to get into FG range for the win (instead of the tie)?
Mullen is going to be 2nd guessed regardless.
The smart coach uses the timeout because then his offense has a chance to do something positive (either to tie or to win)
Posted on 12/13/20 at 2:53 pm to DawgsLife
I was camping. What did I miss? Any gifs?
Posted on 12/13/20 at 3:18 pm to meansonny
quote:
Assume LSU misses the kick.
Okay. That would make it a tie game.
quote:Some would sure. No matter what you do you will always have fans question what you did. Hopefully none of the coaches base their decisions upon what fans think or say. But, you would then have a tie at home going into OT.
You dont think fans would complain about Mullen sitting on the timeout to give his offense a chance to get into FG range for the win (instead of the tie)?
quote:Agreed.
Mullen is going to be 2nd guessed regardless.
quote:I would disagree....but I am not a coach, either.
The smart coach uses the timeout because then his offense has a chance to do something positive (either to tie or to win)
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