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re: Monken to Baltimore
Posted on 2/14/23 at 12:56 pm to Crowknowsbest
Posted on 2/14/23 at 12:56 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
On offense, he also hired James Coley for much the same reasons as he’s hiring Bobo (continuity, recruiting). I don’t expect this will go that poorly, but don’t ask everyone to think this plan is infallible.
Coley was a fricking disaster and a horrendous hire. Chaney was OKAY but topped out at "yeah he's decent". After that we promoted a career loser for as you said mostly recruiting reasons. So I am fully with you in that kirby has made some very shitty hires offensively.
However, hiring monken shows us a total paradigm shift in that regard. Chaney was still an old school guy and we wanted to run the same offense bama ran in 2008/2009 era. Coley, idk wtf to think about his system if one even exists. But going and getting monken shows that kirby was perfectly fine and ready to move away from historical SEC ball that was prevalent even up until a decade ago and shift towards modern new age offenses. Bobo sitting behind and learning for the last year is an added cherry on top bonus in this whole thing. Yes we have history that shows kirby has made some questionable offensive hires, but the most recent hsitory we have shows that he wants a modern explosive offense and its' likely he will instruct bobo to keep to the script
2
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:22 pm to WG_Dawg
For the record, I agree with a lot of the points made in Bobo’s favor and think he will probably do fine. I just think that this is likely the best non-HC job in college football, and it seems unlikely to me that Bobo is the absolute best person to fill it.
Maybe I’m also just nervous about the amount of alums and Kirby’s friends on staff. I know we’re at the top of the mountain now, but we’ll fall back to the pack quickly if we’re not picking up fresh ideas and good people from outside the program.
Maybe I’m also just nervous about the amount of alums and Kirby’s friends on staff. I know we’re at the top of the mountain now, but we’ll fall back to the pack quickly if we’re not picking up fresh ideas and good people from outside the program.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:22 pm to WG_Dawg
I do laugh when people claim "modern" offense this and that.
There are 32 teams in the NFL.
The definition of "modern" in today's NFL is so broad that it is a joke. Really.
The issue with Todd Monken was the complexity of the offensive system. The offense starts and stops with the wide receivers being smart enough to understand the concepts and how to execute against all of the different backends that they will face.
It is not easy to get new QBs and WRs on the same page with that playbook. It took 2+ years for the playbook to really open up (particularly the full implementation of the motions).
And it appears that the playbook is big enough to adapt to personnel (running so much in 12 personnel is not considered being a part of the modern nfl offenses). 13 personnel. 22 personnel.
What we saw was 1/4 of the playbook tailored to pass catching RBs and elite tight end play.
The playbook is prepared for elite X and Z receivers. We will see a lot of differences in 2023. Not because Monken is gone. But because playing to our strengths will look different.
My only question is if we will see the playcall layering like we had with Monken (and our TE/RB heavy offense). Every play had 2 more actions that could be built off it for when opponents make changes. Will a novice (like me) still be able to see the layers in play designs built off of X and Z targets?
There are 32 teams in the NFL.
The definition of "modern" in today's NFL is so broad that it is a joke. Really.
The issue with Todd Monken was the complexity of the offensive system. The offense starts and stops with the wide receivers being smart enough to understand the concepts and how to execute against all of the different backends that they will face.
It is not easy to get new QBs and WRs on the same page with that playbook. It took 2+ years for the playbook to really open up (particularly the full implementation of the motions).
And it appears that the playbook is big enough to adapt to personnel (running so much in 12 personnel is not considered being a part of the modern nfl offenses). 13 personnel. 22 personnel.
What we saw was 1/4 of the playbook tailored to pass catching RBs and elite tight end play.
The playbook is prepared for elite X and Z receivers. We will see a lot of differences in 2023. Not because Monken is gone. But because playing to our strengths will look different.
My only question is if we will see the playcall layering like we had with Monken (and our TE/RB heavy offense). Every play had 2 more actions that could be built off it for when opponents make changes. Will a novice (like me) still be able to see the layers in play designs built off of X and Z targets?
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:26 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I just think that this is likely the best non-HC job in college football, and it seems unlikely to me that Bobo is the absolute best person to fill it.
I've said the exact same thing many times prior to today. But now that it's happened and this is our reality, it's just perplexing that so many of our fans' default is to shite on the guy and be negative and think about all the ways and reaons he'll fail and it's a bad hire. Nobody did any of that when lanning was promoted from within, or when schu was promoted from within. People have just latched onto decades old memes and 1 or 2 specific playcalls and that's enoguh to completely brick wall their mind on the topic permanently.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:27 pm to WG_Dawg
I can’t stress enough that that is not my intent (to say Bobo is bad). He isn’t bad. He’s the 2nd best UGA OC ever, probably.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:30 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I just think that this is likely the best non-HC job in college football, and it seems unlikely to me that Bobo is the absolute best person to fill it.
Bobo still has the highest scoring offense in UGA history.
The passing offense was led by Hutson Mason, Chris Conley, Michael Bennett, and Jeb Blazevich.
The run game had Quayvon Hicks blasting holes and misdirections for a true freshman Chubb/Sony and part timer in Gurley.
(Many don't know this... but 2022 had 2.93 rushing TDs per game. 2014 had 2.92 rushing TDs per game. Both seasons led the conference in rushing TDs).
"Modern" offense is still based around the idea that we can punch the ball into the endzone on the ground.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:31 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I can’t stress enough that that is not my intent (to say Bobo is bad). He isn’t bad. He’s the 2nd best UGA OC ever, probably.
But not good enough for the job.
Got it.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:32 pm to meansonny
I haven’t said anything about his offense not being modern or criticized his time at UGA.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:33 pm to meansonny
quote:
But not good enough for the job. Got it.
The standards at UGA are pretty clearly different now than they ever have been.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:35 pm to Crowknowsbest
I didn't say you did.
I replied to WG and was just poking at the nomenclature for "modern" offense.
12 personnel.
22 personnel.
Running power/counter/pin and pull.
I replied to WG and was just poking at the nomenclature for "modern" offense.
12 personnel.
22 personnel.
Running power/counter/pin and pull.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:35 pm to Crowknowsbest
The standard is to score points.
1 job for an OC.
1 job for an OC.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:39 pm to meansonny
Open question to the forum-
If not Bobo, then who?
If not Bobo, then who?
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:42 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Open question to the forum-
If not Bobo, then who?
it's not really possible to play that game. After coley was fired I doubt many people woudl have said "we shoudl go out and hire todd monken". If it's not bobo it'd probably be someone we aren't even thinking of
And it's worth noting that bama, the best program of the last 15 yeras without the slightest question, got rejected a couple times in their search for an OC.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:50 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
it's not really possible to play that game.
I disagree. If someone is going to shite on a hire, then there should be an obligation to provide an alternative.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:53 pm to deeprig9
I think Ryan Grubb would have been an interesting option. Maybe the Utah OC. There are probably some guys in the pros who I’m not as familiar with, as well.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 2:18 pm to Crowknowsbest
The best business owners are the ones who hire and develop their people. You are going to lose some and thats gonna happen when you hire develop good talent, but the key is to have a talent pool in house that are ready to step up, while continuing to hire and bring in talent when and where needed. Smart learned this from Saban and has done possibly a better job at it in his tenure.
This dovetails with having a culture of hard work, success, achievement and rewards. This stuff can’t be looked at in a vacuum. This is a chess game, not checkers.
This dovetails with having a culture of hard work, success, achievement and rewards. This stuff can’t be looked at in a vacuum. This is a chess game, not checkers.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 2:21 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
The best business owners are the ones who hire and develop their people. You are going to lose some and thats gonna happen when you hire develop good talent, but the key is to have a talent pool in house that are ready to step up, while continuing to hire and bring in talent when and where needed. Smart learned this from Saban and has done possibly a better job at it in his tenure.
Absolutely how Saban started doing it, once he became a destination for high profile assistants.
Kirby does seem to be following the blueprint. Only difference I see is Saban grabs the best damn talent available. Kirby grabbed his buddies. Hopefully it works out the same way.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 2:27 pm to retooc
quote:
Only difference I see is Saban grabs the best damn talent available. Kirby grabbed his buddies. Hopefully it works out the same way.
Muschamp was hciw for a Texas team that just won a national championship.
Just because he failed at 2 stops as a head coach doesn't diminish his ability to recruit, scheme, and coach a defense (he didn't get dumber with experience).
Bobo doesn't have that pedigree. But he was the best UGA OC prior to Monken.
And both Mushchamp and Bobo are known for their ability as recruiters. That can't be overstated enough in this day and age of college football.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 2:49 pm to retooc
I would think a year spent with monk would be a good way for an OC to gain valuable knowledge. He wasn’t the worst OC we ever had so there’s that?. Also the talent level from then to now is significantly different, how many top ten offensive lines did we see during the richt era? Had a few lights out players just not great across the board.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 2/14/23 at 3:52 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I think Ryan Grubb would have been an interesting option. Maybe the Utah OC.
Ludwig couldn't get ND to pay his $2 million buyout in Salt Lake City. I don't think Kirby would have either.
I guarantee y'all one thing- Kirby has been planning for this day for 2 years. The offensive scheme is not changing; Kirby learned the lesson Saban taught him post-Lane Kiffin. All Bama OCs since then have been required to run that scheme and add tweaks to it. Same thing will be in place in Athens.
I'm kind of excited to see what Bobo can do with two big pluses over his first time around- way more offensive talent than he's ever had (especially along the line) and a much better defense.
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