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re: Interesting, and depressing read from an A&M reporter on UGA's offense

Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:30 pm to
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51417 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

Fromm playing good football as the rule

His dip began with the debacle in Baton Rouge. He´s played one and half years of good football.
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 1:31 pm
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
6045 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

He's likely the best QB in the country from a mental aspect.


That was the label he earned as a true freshman, and it was accurate for a true freshman. I don't think he has progressed well enough to keep that label. Here are some examples of the "mental limitations" that have been noted by me or others.

Jake would rather throw to the sidelines than across the middle, always has, still does. It has to be more than playcalling IMO because it's too noticeable. That's one thing I loved about Murray, he would hit any receiver anywhere on the field and did it frequently. Fromm's preferences are more limited.

Jake likes his pre-snap read, as noted by many commentators, but after a few seasons of footage defenses know where he's going with that and cover it well or lie in wait and stuff the play.

If his first read is covered, Jake seems rushed even if he's not under pressure. He immediately dumps to a short sideline route, misses guys breaking open, throws it away, and lately makes poor throws. Not always, but when he starts looking around the chance of a good outcome drops significantly IMO.

Jakes footwork/mobility in the pocket now seems worse than it was his freshman season. That's my observation and I'm not sure why it would be so.
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 1:49 pm
Posted by DawgHolliday
the 'cloven-land', ga
Member since Sep 2012
5114 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:43 pm to
I actually kind of felt like he played better post LSU last season. I remember us bitching up to that point about why Fields wasn’t getting more of a look because Jake was starting slow just about every game. The problem then was that Fields couldn’t read the defense, but Jake wasn’t impressive in the first half of many games last year that I can remember. I’m not digging up stats, just going off what I remember of the games and game threads last year.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
28530 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

That was the label he earned as a true freshman, and it was accurate for a true freshman. I don't think he has progressed well enough to keep that label


He certainly earned that label last year as well.
Posted by BoozeDawg
ATLANNUH
Member since Sep 2018
1481 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

He certainly earned that label last year as well.


speaking of earned

D'Andre Swift has earned every inch of his 1,130 yards this year. Nothing has seemed easy
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora
Member since Sep 2012
77099 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:53 pm to
Things are never as good as they seem, but things are never as bad as they seem.

Some people glom onto only the good.

Some people glom onto only the bad.

Both groups suck.

The reason some people get shite on for being negative here is because "where were you when fromm was doing great? He has some bad games and now you're here?" People that come out of the wood work to shite on him are losers.

Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
10189 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

We have a new OC and all of our top targets from previous years gone and you wonder why our passing game is off?


It's week 11, man....these excuses no longer fly.
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51417 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:03 pm to
quote:


D'Andre Swift has earned every inch of his 1,130 yards this year. Nothing has seemed easy

and has become a calm and admirable leader (throat slash, get up jawin´ D´Andre is in the past) and a DGD.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
42633 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

You and others here are quick to pin that entirely on Fromm


I am only talking about the times when everything works on the play, and then Fromm throws an inaccurate pass.
Posted by FinleyStreet
Member since Aug 2011
8000 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

The reason some people get shite on for being negative here is because "where were you when fromm was doing great? He has some bad games and now you're here?" People that come out of the wood work to shite on him are losers.


Exactly. Most of the neggo waffles were not even here in 2017. The timing of this Jake Fromm shite fest is awfully convenient.
Posted by lewis and herschel
Member since Nov 2009
17618 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:37 pm to
You sound like Mason Rudolph.
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
27223 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

You and others here are quick to pin that entirely on Fromm.

I don't think that is a common thought at all. James Coley doesn't have many fans at this point, and I am opposed to the hyper conservative philosophy as a rule.

Those things can all be problems at the same time as Jake Fromm struggling personally.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47910 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

His dip began with the debacle in Baton Rouge. He´s played one and half years of good football.
I hope you're not serious. He played some of his best football after that loss. He tore Alabama a new one until our offense got conservative in the SECCG.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
28530 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

D'Andre Swift has earned every inch of his 1,130 yards this year. Nothing has seemed easy


Absolutely.The OL run blocking has been inconsistent at best.

Really starting to worry about our run game next year with Swift gone.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47910 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

That was the label he earned as a true freshman, and it was accurate for a true freshman. I don't think he has progressed well enough to keep that label. Here are some examples of the "mental limitations" that have been noted by me or others.
That was a label he earned the past two years and he still gets praised for those things. Detecting coverages and blitzes, moving players around, moving into the right protections and protecting the ball by not throwing in to a lot of double or triple coverages are some reasons why he gets that praise. He's only thrown on pick this season that was his fault and that was only because the ball didn't go far enough to not be picked when he was throwing it away.

quote:

Jake would rather throw to the sidelines than across the middle, always has, still does. It has to be more than playcalling IMO because it's too noticeable. That's one thing I loved about Murray, he would hit any receiver anywhere on the field and did it frequently. Fromm's preferences are more limited.
The middle of the field is more dangerous. You can generally find the right matchups on the outside easily but the inside is more risky to throw to because there are generally more defenders there to throw around. Fromm's job is to try to move the ball without turning it over. Those outside throws result in fewer opportunities for turnovers. Whether he does that because he's been coached to do that or because he's afraid, the result in a guy who protects the ball, which is great.

That said, Fromm does throw to the middle when it's necessary. The 2-minute drills result in a lot of throws to the middle of the field. It's the nature of the hurry up and matchups that allow us to spread the field a little more, putting the defense on their heels and making it easier to hit the middle. When we run the ball so much, we have to have formations that allow us to run and throw from in order to try to confuse the defense. If it's a formation we can run from, the defense will try to put more defenders in the middle of the field to stop the run, which makes it harder/riskier to throw to the middle. Fromm's also really good at those outside throws, so he sticks with what works best, assuming his receivers can also get good leverage.

quote:

Jake likes his pre-snap read, as noted by many commentators, but after a few seasons of footage defenses know where he's going with that and cover it well or lie in wait and stuff the play.
Not exactly. His reads aren't simply to see which outside guy is going to be covered. He's looking at the defensive formation overall to see if they are in zone vs. man vs. combo, whether they are going to blitz and how many guys they may try to bring. He winds up throwing to the outside because that's where the matchups are. Our receivers haven't done a great job at contested balls and catching in coverage this season, so it makes sense that he would shy away from throwing where the matchups aren't favorable.

We've also played some good defenses this season with backs who aren't shaken by our receivers. They aren't "l[ying] and wait[ing]" so much as being able to make breaks on the ball where our receivers aren't getting leverage to box them out. It's not like our receivers are open with 5-10 yards of grass around them and Fromm is looking at them but refusing to throw it.

quote:

If his first read is covered, Jake seems rushed even if he's not under pressure. He immediately dumps to a short sideline route, misses guys breaking open, throws it away, and lately makes poor throws. Not always, but when he starts looking around the chance of a good outcome drops significantly IMO.
The reason why we've had so few sacks is because Fromm gets the ball out pretty quickly. He quickly goes through his progressions and if he doesn't see an opening, he checks it down or throws it away. That's protecting the ball by not forcing it where he shouldn't. I've noticed a lot of our plays take a long time to develop, especially with our receivers not getting leverage and separation. He can't sit back and hope someone gets open. He's got time to go through his progression one time and make his decision based on the target that has the best shot based on the coverage. Often times the safe play is the check down. He could force the ball into coverage and maybe get a few more good-yard plays out of it, but he'll also likely get more interceptions, which would just make the boo birds chirp even more.

He could also focus on one receiver each play, waiting on them to break open and then throw it, but then he'd miss the other several targets on the field. Given that a QB cannot see the whole field at the exact same time, there's going to be a trade off somewhere. It's my opinion that he's doing the right thing with his progressions but that our receivers just aren't getting open in time for him to see them get open and deliver the ball to them.

quote:

Jakes footwork/mobility in the pocket now seems worse than it was his freshman season. That's my observation and I'm not sure why it would be so.
This is actually something I can agree with. I don't think his mobility in the pocket is bad so much as he seems to have been throwing off his back foot more than I've noticed in previous seasons.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47910 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

It's week 11, man....these excuses no longer fly.
Receivers generally still aren't getting separation and leverage. It's gotten a little better with Pickens the past few weeks but Fromm's also taken advantage of that. The rest of the crew are still having trouble. We dropped an easy slant early in the game on Saturday. Zeus moved to the wrong side of Fromm and caused a busted play. Stupid mistakes at week 11.

And yes, I blame a lot of it on coaching. I don't think our offense has been progressing as much as our defense has throughout the season. CKS is directly involved in the defense but not in the offense, as far as I'm aware. That could have a bit to do with it, but the offense hasn't been getting better and it's not all on the QB simply playing bad football.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47910 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

I am only talking about the times when everything works on the play, and then Fromm throws an inaccurate pass.
That doesn't happen nearly as much as when everything doesn't work on the play and Fromm throws an accurate pass but we still don't get much if anything out of it. He had a rough first half on Saturday in wet conditions but his season hasn't looked that way by any stretch. There's a lot more to our offensive dysfunction than errant throws, yet those are what are getting the focus of folks like yourself.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
47910 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

The reason some people get shite on for being negative here is because "where were you when fromm was doing great? He has some bad games and now you're here?" People that come out of the wood work to shite on him are losers.
This is exactly what's happening, except that a few of the most vocal detractors have been around for over a year saying these things because Fields wasn't getting enough playing time in their estimation.

If this board were a little more rational, I wouldn't be as active in these threads.

Fromm makes mistakes. Sometimes bad mistakes. The issue I see is that with our offense so off kilter, he's taking the brunt of the negativity even if it's not entirely deserved.
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
6045 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

where were you when fromm was doing great? He has some bad games and now you're here?


After watching a few games in 2017, I was singing his praises for the rest of the season, thought he played very well for a freshman. In 2018, I didn't see much improvement so didn't have as much to say other than I'd give Fields a shot after the LSU game because he had more upside.
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
6045 posts
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:30 pm to
quote:

If this board were a little more rational, I wouldn't be as active in these threads.


There aren't many people walking around thinking, "Everyone else is so rational and I'm being irrational." One thing I've noticed about myself and others is that degree of confidence on an opinion (aka fact) correlates poorly with degree of accuracy.
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 4:35 pm
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