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re: Did Trevor Lawrence progress faster than Justin Fields?
Posted on 9/26/18 at 12:00 am to djsdawg
Posted on 9/26/18 at 12:00 am to djsdawg
Because Fields hasn't played meaningful snaps we can't be certain that he is the real deal. That is a question that begs for an answer.
There is only one way to know--play Fields first half and decide at what point to yank Fields in favor of Fromm..
There is only one way to know--play Fields first half and decide at what point to yank Fields in favor of Fromm..
1
Posted on 9/26/18 at 7:04 am to djsdawg
quote:Agreed
Having 2 strong options at qb is better than limiting yourself to 1
quote:
It lowers the risk of a loss
Unless you find out the QB is not ready at all. Then it increases the chance of a loss. One that ends National Championship chances.
Why do you not trust Kirby Smart's judgement? We have millions of dollars of salaries tied up in coaches to make those type decisions. I'm going to let them evaluate and decide.
Honestly. If Smart/Chaney thought he was the best option, don't you think he would be playing?
Posted on 9/26/18 at 7:07 am to djsdawg
quote:
but you guys are talking like Fields is the real deal and is a proven talent.
quote:
We haven’t seen anything to the contrary.
Apparently the coaches have.
This post was edited on 9/26/18 at 7:08 am
Posted on 9/26/18 at 7:14 am to djsdawg
quote:So, you are not familiar with coach speak? If you don't know stuff like that, then maybe you don't know how coaches work? Seriously? You didn't know that sometimes coaches say things to bui,d a players confidence and keep them happy?
So trust them but not if they say something?
So, if Fields is ready, why do you think Smart is not starting him? If Smart thinks Fields is capable of playing more, why isn't he?
Because he knows Fromm gives the team a better chance to win.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 7:19 am to Whiznot
quote:
Because Fields hasn't played meaningful snaps we can't be certain that he is the real deal. That is a question that begs for an answer.
Did you realize that for every 2 3/4 snaps Fromm has taken, Fields has taken 1?
There is a reason no other contender for the playoffs is playing a freshman QB. Clemson might start one, but we aren't sure about that, and it is because Bryant just isn't very good.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 8:44 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Apparently the coaches have.
I doubt its anything more than they saw with Fromm last year, which wasn't a big deal at all apparently. Kirby just being extra cautious, quite possibly overly so.
quote:
Unless you find out the QB is not ready at all. Then it increases the chance of a loss. One that ends National Championship chances.
If he looks like a terrible QB, then it increases the odds of a loss. We have not seen anything close to a terrible QB when Fields has played.
quote:
If Smart/Chaney thought he was the best option, don't you think he would be playing?
This isn't about if Fields should be starting, so stop acting like it, and no, I dont. Even Saban didnt play Tua much early last year, and I bet he was more than ready just as Fromm was, and Hurts wasn't a good passer. Coaches have an odd thing about returning QBs who are good leaders and helped the team win a lot. They essentially make that guy lose the job by being terrible or getting hurt.
quote:
you are not familiar with coach speak? I
I am, and thats not what it is. Kirby isn't lying about Fields just because he is a coach. He is straight up when discussing players. No BS. We saw the same kind of talk with Fromm last year, so if you trust that, trust this.
This post was edited on 9/26/18 at 8:52 am
Posted on 9/26/18 at 10:30 am to djsdawg
quote:Again, I have to disagree. Putting in true freshmen at QB may be becoming more popular these days with early enrollment and so many QB camps and 7-on-7's but it's still a relative anomaly. Because of that, the safe bet is still to let them develop on the sidelines as long as the current QB is getting the job done.
I think it’s safe to assume the backup true freshman would remain successful.
It's why Jacob Eason didn't start against North Carolina even though it was obvious he was more talented than Greyson Lambert. It's why Jake Fromm didn't start against App State even though it turns out he was the better QB compared to Jacob Eason. And it's why--even though some believe Fields may be the better QB or at least the QB with better physical tools--Jake Fromm is is starting over Justin Fields.
quote:My point has been this: there's no way a competent football coach will start someone like Tua or Fields over someone like Hurts (last year) or Fromm (this year) without their starters actually losing their jobs based on their performance (like Hurts did against us).
It’s not a guarantee, but He would likely be another example of a freshmen who can ball out from game 1 with a strong supporting cast. Just like Fromm did, fields came in ready. Accurate arm, high fb iq. Eason didn’t come in like that, nor he have the strong supporting cast.
No matter how starry-eyed fans get about the new guy with the big arm, this game is still about results and coaches get paid to to win games. Coaches are always evaluating players to determine who gives them the best chance to win, and in that sense, they are always looking for the safe bet. It's rarely a safe bet to throw in a true freshman over a seasoned veteran unless the performance dictates that change happen, and Fromm has given no reason for CKS and CJC to replace him with Fields when the game is on the line even if fans are curious (or anxious) to see the backup in the game.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 10:41 am to FooManChoo
quote:
have to disagree. Putting in true freshmen at QB may be becoming more popular these days with early enrollment and so many QB camps and 7-on-7's but it's still a relative anomaly. Because of that, the safe bet is still to let them develop on the sidelines as long as the current QB is getting the job done.
I bet fields stats would be elite if he were starting, just as fromm’s were last year. We have elite supporting cast, an easy schedule, And a run first strategy that protects qbs, especially young ones.
quote:
there's no way a competent football coach will start someone like Tua or Fields over someone like Hurts (last year) or Fromm (this year) without their starters actually losing their jobs based on their performance (like Hurts did against us).
totally agree, I bet we are gonna Lose fields over this because Fromm doesn’t suck like Bryant and hurts, and we are gonna be worse off than both clemson and Bama for it
Posted on 9/26/18 at 10:44 am to djsdawg
quote:You're right. I misread the play-by-play.
No, we forced a punt on their next possession.
Regardless, we handed the ball off 3 times and punted on that possession before Mizzou scored again. It doesn't really change anything if we were going to stick with that game plan regardless of the QB.
quote:From a passing standpoint, yes, those drives were a waste, but the intent of those drives was not to see if Fields could light up their secondary. The goal was to run out the clock on the road against a conference opponent. We did that and Fields showed that he could manage the clock and hand the ball off properly (other good traits of QBs). He even got a pass attempt in there that he completed to convert on 3rd down. It's the little things that matter the most and Fields got a little more experience that day.
Those final drives vs sc were totally wasted from a passing game standpoint, for both of them.
quote:Uh, yeah, because it would be a gamble to put Fields in during a close game, on the road, against a conference opponent with our current starter playing as well as he is just to get Fields some experience. Like I've said, the #1 goal of any coach is to win the games, and you don't win consistently by throwing dice to appease the curiosities of the fans.
People seem to be afraid of fields playing in a close game. The bigger the lead, the safer it is.
Call it being afraid if you want, but I honestly don't want a coach who would play Fields over Fromm in a tight game like that just to see how he does or just to get him some reps if Fromm hasn't completely lost his mind out there. That is considered reckless. Do some reckless actions pay off? Sure, but that doesn't mean they are the right actions to take. A lot of good things happen from poor choices, but that doesn't justify consistently making poor choices.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 10:53 am to djsdawg
quote:Until I see Fields able to make those same pre-snap reads that Fromm made all last year, I woudln't make that bet. There's a lot more to Fromm's success than his support, schedule, and scheme. We know what we've got with Fromm. At this point, what Fields would/could do is just speculation.
I bet fields stats would be elite if he were starting, just as fromm’s were last year. We have elite supporting cast, an easy schedule, And a run first strategy that protects qbs, especially young ones.
quote:I think that is a naive statement and I'm sorry you have pinned all of your hopes on an untested QB like many of us did with Eason two years ago. I've learned from my mistake but it appears you're ready to do it all over again.
totally agree, I bet we are gonna Lose fields over this because Fromm doesn’t suck like Bryant and hurts, and we are gonna be worse off than both clemson and Bama for it
Posted on 9/26/18 at 10:54 am to FooManChoo
My point is that Letting fields pass when up by 20 isn’t wreckless.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Until I see Fields able to make those same pre-snap reads that Fromm made all last year, I woudln't make that bet. There's a lot more to Fromm's success than his support, schedule, and scheme. We know what we've got with Fromm. At this point, what Fields would/could do is just speculation.
Fields was born with the same intangibles Fromm was, Very Cerebral hard working qb, and smart even made comments about it after mtsu game.
quote:
think that is a naive statement and I'm sorry you have pinned all of your hopes on an untested QB like many of us did with Eason two years ago. I've learned from my mistake but it appears you're ready to do it all over again.
We are uga. We can’t have nice things. It essentially takes a certain type of qb to beat Bama, and that was before they had the guts to put their amazing untested freshman on the field.
As for Eason, he was overrated from day 1. Fromm was much better and yet he was destined to be eason’s Backup until the football gods gave us a gift.
This post was edited on 9/26/18 at 11:03 am
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:06 am to djsdawg
quote:Maybe it isn't reckless but it's unnecessary and potentially a game changer. Imagine a pick-six at the beginning of the 4th quarter followed by a successful onside kick that leads to another TD. That decision to let the freshman air it out instead of running out the clock could make for a tight game at the end and even a loss if some more crazy stuff happens.
My point is that Letting fields pass when up by 20 isn’t wreckless.
After so many years of bonehead decisions by the CMR-coached teams (like the pooch kick against GT at the end of the game in 2014 that gave them a FG and an eventual win), I've come to appreciate coaching decisions focused on winning the game with the lowest probability of screwing things up, assuming we also aren't giving the game away by being too conservative.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:18 am to djsdawg
quote:He might be exactly like Fromm except with better physical tools, but again, there's no way a good coach will play Fields (an unknown with high potential) instead of Fromm (a known commodity with a little lower potential) while Fromm continues to do his job well and with good efficiency. It's too much of a gamble.
Fields was born with the same intangibles Fromm was, Very Cerebral hard working qb, and smart even made comments about it after mtsu game.
Like I've said from the beginning, Fields might be the greatest QB ever to play the game but it simply doesn't make sense for CKS and CJC to put him in a close conference game over Fromm outside of some select package or situational plays while Fromm is playing so well.
What this boils down to is emotion vs. reason, and IMO, reason should also win out.
quote:It definitely seems that way
We are uga. We can’t have nice things.
quote:Fromm was doing a great job of beating Bama before Tua came in, and even after Fromm was holding his own in the 2nd half. That TD throw to Hardman was incredible, for example. Fromm didn't lose us that game, and save for a few bad calls and plays in the 2nd half, Fromm would have beat both Bama and Tua. He wasn't perfect, but Fromm did not lose us that game, therefore I think it's rather silly to assume we need a different type of QB to beat them. What we need is for consistent execution for 4 quarters from the talent we already have.
It essentially takes a certain type of qb to beat Bama, and that was before they had the guts to put their amazing untested freshman on the field.
quote:Potentially, but everyone was overwhelmed by his big arm that they weren't focusing so much on his happy feet in the pocket, poor fundamentals, and relatively poor field vision. His cannon arm also didn't work so well for throwing "catchable" balls, especially on the short throws. Everyone assumed he would be the starter and would probably have continued to be the starter if not for his injury.
As for Eason, he was overrated from day 1. Fromm was much better and yet he was destined to be eason’s Backup until the football gods gave us a gift.
IMO, only an Eason or a Hurts situation will allow Fields to overtake Fromm as the starter and primary QB.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:18 am to FooManChoo
quote:
many years of bonehead decisions by the CMR-coached teams (like the pooch kick against GT at the end of the game in 2014 that gave them a FG and an eventual win), I've come to appreciate coaching decisions focused on winning the game with the lowest probability of screwing things up, assuming we also aren't giving the game away by being too conservative.
I am glad richt ain’t here, but it’s gonna take more than that to beat saban and I hope smart starts to realize it before it’s too late.
quote:
isn't reckless but it's unnecessary and potentially a game changer. Imagine a pick-six at the beginning of the 4th quarter followed by a successful onside kick that leads to another TD. That decision to let the freshman air it out instead of running out the clock could make for a tight game at the end and even a loss if some more crazy stuff happens.
It’s okay to Put some trust in our team and the coaching we have. There is such a thing as being overly cautious.
This post was edited on 9/26/18 at 11:21 am
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:28 am to FooManChoo
Everyone brings up Tua, but why does no one ever bring up Chris Leak/Tim Tebow.
Tebow threw around 30 passes his 1st season at UF, and then went on to being one of the best collegiate players of all time. Cam Newton would have followed suit if he didn't get caught stealing a laptop. There are plenty of talented QBs who have redshirted or sat a lot during their Freshman year.
Tebow threw around 30 passes his 1st season at UF, and then went on to being one of the best collegiate players of all time. Cam Newton would have followed suit if he didn't get caught stealing a laptop. There are plenty of talented QBs who have redshirted or sat a lot during their Freshman year.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Fromm was doing a great job of beating Bama before Tua came in, and even after Fromm was holding his own in the 2nd half. That TD throw to Hardman was incredible, for example. Fromm didn't lose us that game, and save for a few bad calls and plays in the 2nd half, Fromm would have beat both Bama and Tua. He wasn't perfect, but Fromm did not lose us that game, therefore I think it's rather silly to assume we need a different type of QB to beat them. What we need is for consistent execution for 4 quarters from the talent we already have.
Fromm didn’t lose it but he didn’t win it either. That’s because tua outplayed him. Once tua arrived, Bama outscored uga 26-10, including the amazing Fromm td pass. I hate to admit it, but with what we now know, Game was only close because hurts was bad.
Like Clemson, and most teams who beat Bama, We probably need a dual threat qb to win us a game vs Bama, and that was before they had the best the best qb in the nation.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:29 am to Dawgsontop34
quote:
Tebow threw around 30 passes his 1st season at UF, and then went on to being one of the best collegiate players of all time. Cam Newton would have followed suit if he didn't get caught stealing a laptop. There are plenty of talented QBs who have redshirted or sat a lot during their Freshman year.
Tebow was used in critical plays in close games in 2006. Urban was smart to utilize his skill set.
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:32 am to FooManChoo
quote:
only an Eason or a Hurts situation will allow Fields to overtake Fromm as the starter and primary QB.
Which is why I think he will play somewhere else one day
Posted on 9/26/18 at 11:52 am to djsdawg
quote:We could have beat Saban last year with the players and coaching we had. A few things didn't go our way which eventually led to us losing in overtime. You make it sound like we needed to overhaul our entire team (or at least the QB) to beat Saban, including getting a different type of QB.
I am glad richt ain’t here, but it’s gonna take more than that to beat saban and I hope smart starts to realize it before it’s too late.
Here's the truth of the matter: every QB and QB-scheme has their strengths and weaknesses. We weren't beat because Fromm wasn't ready for the big show or because he lacked the tools and talent to beat Alabama. We were beat because Saban made the right adjustments to take advantage of our weaknesses while limiting our strengths all the while limiting his teams weaknesses and enhancing their strengths. He got a few calls go his way and took advantage of mistakes that we made.
He had arguably a superior team from a talent and depth perspective but we still almost beat him regardless. It sucks, but changing out our QB is not necessarily the answer to it. It's a team game and we lost as a team.
quote:There is such a thing as being overly cautious but I don't think that applies to running out the clock versus getting your backups more significant "garbage time" reps. And it's not really a matter of trust so much as a matter of good and prudent coaching. CKS might trust that Fields won't throw an interception but why would he still risk it? Trust doesn't mean something bad won't happen, it just means you don't expect it to happen.
It’s okay to Put some trust in our team and the coaching we have. There is such a thing as being overly cautious.
In coaching, you're always judged on whether you win or lose the games. If CKS took a gamble to get some extra reps for Fields and it somehow led to us losing, it would could have ended our season and he would have been criticized for losing while doing something completely unnecessary.
There's no reason why he needed to let Fields throw the ball around against either SC or Mizz.
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