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re: Did Trevor Lawrence progress faster than Justin Fields?
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:10 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:10 pm to FooManChoo
When I say experience, I mean experience kicking arse on the field.
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Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:11 pm to djsdawg
quote:There's simply a different context when playing cupcakes at home vs. playing conference games on the road. That's exactly why we switched the QBs out throughout the cupcake games and left Fromm in during the conference games while the games were close. I'm sure both QBs knew going into the cupcakes that they were both going to get significant playing time due to the level of competition they were up against.
Did we “yank” Fromm for fields vs the cupcakes? No,
quote:Yes, both looked good against the cupcakes. I'll grant you that. But again, that's much different than playing a conference game on the road. Fromm's been there and done that and that's why the ball was put in his hands and not Fields'.
but he did play and he looked just as good as Fromm.
quote:I disagree. It's never safe to assume the backup true freshman would remain successful compared to the starter upperclassman.
Safer to assume he would remain successful and uga would be better for it than otherwise.
Again, Fields could be one of the greatest ever to play the game, but we're in no position to make such a gamble in case he isn't with someone like Fromm under center.
We have a great example of this with Alabama from last year. Nearly identical so far, actually. They had a Sophomore QB who led them just short of a national championship the season before and a highly recruited Freshman waiting for snaps to show what he could do. Alabama was winning with Hurts so they let him have the lion's share of the meaningful snaps and let Tua come in during mop-up time.
That's the situation we have now at UGA. If Fromm struggles in an important game like Hurts did against us, CKS will likely roll the dice with Fields and see if he can give us the same spark Tua gave to Bama. But until that time comes, CKS will treat the situation the same way CNS did last year and let the tested upperclassman keep the ball until it's obvious a change is needed.
quote:It depends on who we're playing. 3 scores really isn't that much when you're playing a high-powered offense. It depends on how well our defense is playing, too. Mizzou scored 22 points in the 2nd half compared to our 23 points in that same time with Fromm and the rest of our starters. By the time Fields could have gone in, we wouldn't have wanted to throw it around much anyway and he would have just been handing it off, which wouldn't have done much good for him.
I understand not wanting to play him when it’s 7-7, but When you are up by 3 scores, it’s not close, and we are wasting time.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:16 pm to djsdawg
quote:If you say so. I think my point stands.
When I say experience, I mean experience kicking arse on the field.
It would be foolish for CKS to give Fields non-scripted or non-situational meaningful snaps against a good conference opponent on the road when the game is still in question and when our starting QB hasn't done anything to lose the game for us so far.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:27 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If you say so. I think my point stands. It would be foolish for CKS to give Fields non-scripted or non-situational meaningful snaps against a good conference opponent on the road when the game is still in question and when our starting QB hasn't done anything to lose the game for us so far
If I say so? What other experience do you think folks are talking about? Being terrible?
Anyways, I think Kirby is afraid to put fields in when Fromm is struggling because if fields does well, smart has a tough decision to make.
This post was edited on 9/25/18 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:39 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
It's never safe to assume the backup true freshman would remain successful compared to the starter upperclassman. Again, Fields could be one of the greatest ever to play the game, but we're in no position to make such a gamble in case he isn't with someone like Fromm under center.
It is safe to assume in our situation. Freshmen qbs can do well, especially when your roster is loaded and they are talented. We saw Fromm do it last year. Neither mizzou or sc have strong d’s Either.
33-14 is a reasonable time to give the kid a shot. So it 34-10. If that’s not, you are way too scared.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 2:42 pm to FooManChoo
Any time that a QB is given packages (limitations) he is being setup to fail. Fields knows the whole offense. There aren't any plays that Fromm is capable of running that Fields can"t run.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 3:16 pm to djsdawg
quote:No, but it only takes one really bad mistake in a game that is on the line to knock us out of playoff contention. We made it last year, and we really don't need to knock ourselves out of the playoffs because people are anxious to see what a kid can do. The coaches see him every day. I don't understand the pure mistrust of the coach that took us to the championship game. Suddenly fans are second guessing his judgement in everything.
Point is they didn’t make many.
I get that he is not infallible, but I trust his judgement over random fans. For one, he sees Fields in practice every single day. He knows if he is grasping the playbook, if he is making sound decisions, etc.
quote:And I can name you dozens of QB's that did not look fine as freshmen. Do you honestly want to take a chance on missing the playoffs just to get a look? He is getting reps in practice, and he is getting a decent amount of reps in games. Not in tight games....but game situations.
Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence for Clemson have looked fine as freshmen. Hurts and tua looked fine as freshmen. So did Bentley.
This post was edited on 9/25/18 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 9/25/18 at 3:25 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
And I can name you dozens of QB's that did not look fine as freshmen. Do you honestly want to take a chance on missing the playoffs just to get a look?
And I bet you would notice a much crappier situation for them, much less conducive to success than what a program like uga has.
Based on everything we have seen, and the supporting cast we have, Fields would likely end up on the list of good ones. I don’t think it’s taking a chance to miss the playoffs. If anything, it’s to increase our odds of making the playoffs.
quote:
The coaches see him every day. I don't understand the pure mistrust of the coach that took us to the championship game.
I trust everything smart said about fields after the 3rd game. He made a statement about how good Fields preps and practices so he deserved to play. I imagine he does that on a weekly basis. I truly think he fears what would happen if Fields looks better than Fromm.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 3:35 pm to djsdawg
I also believe that Kirby worries about what could happen if Fields looks better than Fromm. Fromm is the conservative choice who might not have the highest ceiling. The team is behind Fromm but if Fields come in and electrifies the potential exists for controversy.
Fromm is the man but Fields needs to play in more than mop up situations. In the unlikely event that Fields gets us in a hole, Fromm is capable of bailing us out.
Fromm is the man but Fields needs to play in more than mop up situations. In the unlikely event that Fields gets us in a hole, Fromm is capable of bailing us out.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 3:43 pm to djsdawg
Agreed- good post.
In limited play, Fields is 14-18(78%) with no turnovers and one TD. I can only think of one play where Fields truly messed up - a quick screen to his left that was clearly covered.
Kirby will likely continue to find more and more opportunities to get Fields in - as she should. UGA fans want to run away from a QB controversy but at some point it’s likely to happen. At the end of the day, the sooner the UGA coaches know what they have in FIELDS in battle-tested conditions the better.
In limited play, Fields is 14-18(78%) with no turnovers and one TD. I can only think of one play where Fields truly messed up - a quick screen to his left that was clearly covered.
Kirby will likely continue to find more and more opportunities to get Fields in - as she should. UGA fans want to run away from a QB controversy but at some point it’s likely to happen. At the end of the day, the sooner the UGA coaches know what they have in FIELDS in battle-tested conditions the better.
This post was edited on 9/25/18 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:05 pm to djsdawg
quote:And he got extensive playing time in two games, and some in the other games. You can say it isn't a risk to play a freshman, but it is. Especially at QB.
It is my contention that it’s not a risk to play him.
I'm with the other guys. It is no use arguing. You won't ever agree with me on this point, and I won't ever agree with you on this point.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:09 pm to djsdawg
quote:
And I bet you would notice a much crappier situation for them, much less conducive to success than what a program like uga has.
Not really. USC, Texas, ND, Miami....I mean almost every major power in football has struggled because they have had a young inexperienced QB at some point in time.
Seems funny that people were screaming that UGA was struggling because we had inexperienced QBs just a short time ago, and now we have people arguing experience does not matter.
Not sure why everybody believes they know better than almost every major football coach in the country....but it is what it is. Monday morning quarterbacking is alive and well.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:11 pm to Whiznot
quote:
Fields knows the whole offense. There aren't any plays that Fromm is capable of running that Fields can"t run.
And you know this how? The coaches admitted they only gave Fromm a limited playbook last season, but you think going into game #5 Fields has the entire playbook down pat?
This post was edited on 9/25/18 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:31 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
And he got extensive playing time in two games, and some in the other games. You can say it isn't a risk to play a freshman, but it is. Especially at QB.
He essentially got zero meaningful pt in 2 games. Games we were in control of in the 3rd q.
The risk of playing him is outweighed by the benefit of playing him. Freshman qbs are far more advanced and ready in this day and age.
This kind of Risk aversive attitude you display is what kept us with richt for so long.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:33 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Fields knows the whole offense. There aren't any plays that Fromm is capable of running that Fields can"t run.
This is what you’re up against. There are a number of people so invested in Fields that they have convinced themself he is better as a freshman right now than Fromm is despite our success last year.
I went back and watched the games with Fields and noticed two things.
One ...he has gotten a lot of playing time due to our margin of victory.
And two...he is quick to pull the ball and run. He’s made some good throws but as expected doesn’t seem to be comfortable calling in and out of plays or getting the ball to somebody else if his target isn’t open.
If you look at Tua’s stats from last year, Saban got him into 8 games and it obviously helped get him ready....until this year when he took the job from Hurts. If I was Fields - I’d be looking at that as my game plan but know that it’s going to take beating Fromm in practice and on the field.
He shouldn’t expect to get the job just by showing up based on his HS stats and composite ranking.
All that said...against Mizzou we should have kept him in down on the goal line during that one series...jerking him and Fromm in and out there probably didn’t help either of them.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:40 pm to djsdawg
quote:I thought the point here was that people want Fields to get more experience during games. Experience is experience. It can produce both good and bad results during the game but hopefully it helps the player learn and grow.
If I say so? What other experience do you think folks are talking about? Being terrible?
I'm not sure what you even mean if you mean something other than playing time.
quote:That might be true, but even Fromm "struggling" hasn't been a big deal so far this year. After reviewing all Fromm's throws against Missouri (the first half being arguably his worst performance so far), he wasn't having as bad of a 1st half as it seemed at the time. He had a couple of passes that weren't on target (mostly the deep throws) but the rest of his incompletions were either on the receivers or the defenders were making good plays.
Anyways, I think Kirby is afraid to put fields in when Fromm is struggling because if fields does well, smart has a tough decision to make.
I think the real issue is that Fields isn't on Fromm's level in terms of seeing the field and reading the defenses and therefore Fromm is the "safe" bet right now. Fromm has really good accuracy and a good enough arm to make the throws we need and can even move a bit on his feet. Fields might have more physical tools to work with but he isn't ready for prime time. So, until he's ready and/or until Fromm starts losing games for us, Fields is going to keep getting select snaps.
I don't see that as a matter of CKS being afraid as much as him being prudent. Remember that Saban didn't start Tua because it wasn't the safe thing to do. He only let Tua take over when his back was up against the wall. CKS is likely be the same way and that isn't a criticism.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 4:44 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
really. USC, Texas, ND, Miami....I mean almost every major power in football has struggled because they have had a young inexperienced QB at some point in time.
Those are simply team names. I am talking about supporting casts and I bet many of those teams had some deficiencies there. Problems we don’t have. A freshmen qb is gonna struggle a lot more if their supporting cast isn’t good, but so is any other Qb. Uga didn’t struggle with inexperience at qb in 2017 because of our supporting cast and a very good qb.
quote:
screaming that UGA was struggling because we had inexperienced QBs just a short time ago, and now we have people arguing experience does not matter.
No one said experience isn’t beneficial. Fields would be better off with it, just as Fromm has been. Can’t gain experience on a bench or if handing off all day.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 5:01 pm to djsdawg
quote:
It is safe to assume in our situation.
No it isn't. If it were a safe bet, CKS and CJC would have already let Fields take over. They see things in practice that we don't. Fromm has command of the offense and it shows. He makes good decisions and accurate throws. He knows what the defense is doing and has shown that he can adjust plays to increase our likelihood of success. Fields hasn't shown that he can do that stuff (aside from some decent high-percentage throws).
quote:Yes, some freshmen can do well. Most don't, even some highly recruited ones.
Freshmen qbs can do well,
quote:A loaded roster and talent behind center doesn't equal success. It can, but it doesn't guarantee it. It depends on the players and how well they can execute the scheme and playbook.
especially when your roster is loaded and they are talented.
quote:Fromm is an anomaly and it's almost sad that people can look at him and think that's what freshman should be able to do. Fromm has an extremely high football IQ and knows what he's doing out there. That is very uncommon for true freshmen, even talented ones. To think Fields can or should do the same thing Fromm did is just unrealistic. I'd expect Fields to be more like Eason was the year before, but with more success with his legs.
We saw Fromm do it last year.
quote:It's not just about their defense. They still have SEC defenses and they can punish a newbie who makes mental mistakes. A mishandled snap, a ball thrown up for grabs, or throwing into double coverage could spell bad news for us even with their defenses. And especially against Mizzou, if we turned the ball over, their offense could definitely capitalize.
Neither mizzou or sc have strong d’s Either.
quote:Except Mizzou scored on their next possession to make it 33-22. A turnover by our offense at that point would have likely made it a 1-score game (33-30, likely).
33-14 is a reasonable time to give the kid a shot.
quote:Yeah, and Fromm played one more series with that score where he threw the ball one time. I doubt that would've done much for Fields but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. He probably could've been put in there with that score, half way through the 3rd. Instead, Fields came in on the following series.
So it 34-10.
quote:I don't get this. Why do you think it's about being afraid? You sound like the idiots (not calling you one, btw) who goad their friends into doing stupid things by calling them "chicken". CKS is doing the wise and safe thing and if he started losing us games by throwing dice every series, most of Bulldawg nation would be begging him to be canned.
If that’s not, you are way too scared.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 5:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Remember that Saban didn't start Tua because it wasn't the safe thing to do. He only let Tua take over when his back was up against the wall. CKS is likely be the same way and that isn't a criticism.
Saban should have cost Bama a shot at a national title by making that mistake. Tua was always bama’s best bet and saban was finally proven wrong in our game.
Posted on 9/25/18 at 5:08 pm to Whiznot
quote:What is your justification for saying this? Most inexperienced QBs are given half the field to play with, which is sort of like that. Make one or two reads and throw the ball away. That's what Fields is doing right now. Undoubtedly Fields has a few plays that he's likely to see action with (mostly goalline or red zone scenarios) where he makes one read and takes off running. He's probably learned a trick play or two, as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see both Fields and Fromm in the game at the same time some time this season.
Any time that a QB is given packages (limitations) he is being setup to fail.
quote:
Fields knows the whole offense. There aren't any plays that Fromm is capable of running that Fields can"t run.
Do you mind if I ask where you got that knowledge from? I find it very unlikely that Fromm--who seems to be rather gifted with a high football IQ--didn't have the whole playbook last year but Fields does this year.
But even if you're right, there's a difference between knowing the plays and being able to execute the plays based on what the defense gives you. Are you saying Fields is on the same level mentally (with the playbook, reads, etc.) that Fromm is and that the coaches are holding him back?
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