Started By
Message
re: And with that, we’re at war (Sul Ross statue vandalized)
Posted on 6/19/20 at 12:23 am to Old Sarge
Posted on 6/19/20 at 12:23 am to Old Sarge
quote:
However, I was not aware of the intimate details of Sully’s Confederate war past. I’m gonna be honest and say I find myself wavering on my conviction that his statue and recognition on campus should remain in the form it is in presently.
Flame away, but I’m finding myself swaying towards removing it.
And that's fair. LSR had some dark shite in his history along with the good he obviously did. My dad taught me all of it growing up. Good and bad. That's what history is: the exploits of flawed humans. Emulate their good qualities, eschew their worst ones, and hopefully generations later will benefit from it.
I'm not emotionally attached to the Sully statue (structure I care about most on campus is the giant Aggie ring where I proposed to Aggiebelle), so I'm not losing sleep either way over whether it stays or goes. But I'm also not kidding myself that there won't be another target down the line. It's a fundamental disconnect between how some folks perceive historical commemorations vs. others.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 10:00 am
2
Posted on 6/19/20 at 8:31 am to TbirdSpur2010
I maintain that judging historical figures by modern social norms and ethnical codes is a pointless and potentially dangerous endeavor. It essentially forces us to regard nearly all humans who came before us as evil, and will force those who come after us to see our generation in the same light.
Find me a white American from the 19th century who was not a racist towards blacks by our modern standards. There was a minimum degree of bigotry that was part of the social norm at the time. Even the best among them would have said things in private about black Americans that today would make our stomachs turn. It’s not defending bigotry to acknowledge human society evolves and we have to view people through the lens of their society, not ours.
Find me a white American from the 19th century who was not a racist towards blacks by our modern standards. There was a minimum degree of bigotry that was part of the social norm at the time. Even the best among them would have said things in private about black Americans that today would make our stomachs turn. It’s not defending bigotry to acknowledge human society evolves and we have to view people through the lens of their society, not ours.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 9:49 am to TbirdSpur2010
i ultimately dont really care about the statue and have no real attachment and thats why i really havent spent too much time discussing the whole thing
but i ultimately dislike how we want to judge everything by our current standards and thats just completely unfair as he grew up in a totally different point in time in human history when stuff like this was acceptable
i just dont understand why people want to remove things instead of just reframing them. instead of removing the statue, why not simply put up a plaque that explains his entire history and we dont glorify him or villainize him. simply say "these are the things he did. this is history. and we obviously feel differently about certain aspects of his life now but he was a man largely built by his time period. that doesnt make him an evil person worthy of being erased. but that also doesnt make him someone we should wash over and act like he didnt do things that we know find reprehensible"
maybe we simple move the statue where the same thing can happen. idk. just feels like taking it down and getting rid of it is ultimately the wrong thing to do
but i ultimately dislike how we want to judge everything by our current standards and thats just completely unfair as he grew up in a totally different point in time in human history when stuff like this was acceptable
i just dont understand why people want to remove things instead of just reframing them. instead of removing the statue, why not simply put up a plaque that explains his entire history and we dont glorify him or villainize him. simply say "these are the things he did. this is history. and we obviously feel differently about certain aspects of his life now but he was a man largely built by his time period. that doesnt make him an evil person worthy of being erased. but that also doesnt make him someone we should wash over and act like he didnt do things that we know find reprehensible"
maybe we simple move the statue where the same thing can happen. idk. just feels like taking it down and getting rid of it is ultimately the wrong thing to do
Posted on 6/19/20 at 10:05 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
judging historical figures by modern social norms and ethnical codes is a pointless and potentially dangerous endeavor. It essentially forces us to regard nearly all humans who came before us as evil, and will force those who come after us to see our generation in the same light.
Find me a white American from the 19th century who was not a racist towards blacks by our modern standards. There was a minimum degree of bigotry that was part of the social norm at the time. Even the best among them would have said things in private about black Americans that today would make our stomachs turn. It’s not defending bigotry to acknowledge human society evolves and we have to view people through the lens of their society, not ours.
All of this is right on the money. Well said. Especially the bolded.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 10:06 am
Posted on 6/19/20 at 10:09 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
dont understand why people want to remove things instead of just reframing them. instead of removing the statue, why not simply put up a plaque that explains his entire history and we dont glorify him or villainize him. simply say "these are the things he did. this is history. and we obviously feel differently about certain aspects of his life now but he was a man largely built by his time period. that doesnt make him an evil person worthy of being erased. but that also doesnt make him someone we should wash over and act like he didnt do things that we know find reprehensible"
Spot on, IMO. I'd have no problem with that. Idk why the thing to do now is to either jump to one extreme or the other with shite like this. There's plenty of scope for reasonable compromise so current sensibilities are acknowledged while not obfuscating the historical significance of past flawed human influencers.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 10:27 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Idk why the thing to do now is to either jump to one extreme or the other with shite like this
You and your brother should know the answer to this based upon the responses to your videos. Politics has become a team sport and, for some, a religion (cult).
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 10:28 am
Posted on 6/19/20 at 10:47 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Politics has become a team sport and, for some, a religion (cult).
It's true. Scary how much religious fervor surrounds it. For me, I don't mind being challenged on my beliefs--I welcome the discussion. For a lot of folks, though, it's as if questioning their political ideology is negatively judging the core of who they are as a person, and they react accordingly. That's wild to me.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 11:21 am to TbirdSpur2010
Great comments and thoughts everyone. (And thanks for not roasting me) 
Posted on 6/19/20 at 11:23 am to Old Sarge
quote:
Great comments and thoughts everyone. (And thanks for not roasting me)
There's a difference between "I'm leaning towards removal but admit that I don't know much about the man" and "RACIST, REEEEEEEEE!"
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:27 pm to Old Sarge
At this point it getting removed seems inevitable even though I personally don’t like it. I’ll admit I didn’t know the intimate details of what he did while in the military. It changed my view somewhat but I still would rather keep it with something acknowledging his faults. But that’s usually not acceptable these days.
If it’s just going to remain a point of controversy and get defaced I’d rather move it somewhere that won’t happen. I rag on the Corps on here as others have but the defunding suggestion is idiotic and I assume a total nonstarter for the university
If it’s just going to remain a point of controversy and get defaced I’d rather move it somewhere that won’t happen. I rag on the Corps on here as others have but the defunding suggestion is idiotic and I assume a total nonstarter for the university
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 6/19/20 at 3:36 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
If any statue needs to be removed and replaced with something else it's the Hollingsworth statue.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you look at his career, he wasn't exactly the type of officer that we want to see out of our leadership nowadays. In addition, at the dedication of his statue, he looked one of my fish buddies in the eye and told her that she had no business wearing an Aggie Cadet uniform simply because she was a woman.
I understand that he (Hollingsworth) is the most highly decorated Aggie Officer, but Bernard Schriever '31 had such a monumental impact on American Military History that the fact that he doesn't have a statue on the A&M campus and Hollingsworth does is a crime.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you look at his career, he wasn't exactly the type of officer that we want to see out of our leadership nowadays. In addition, at the dedication of his statue, he looked one of my fish buddies in the eye and told her that she had no business wearing an Aggie Cadet uniform simply because she was a woman.
I understand that he (Hollingsworth) is the most highly decorated Aggie Officer, but Bernard Schriever '31 had such a monumental impact on American Military History that the fact that he doesn't have a statue on the A&M campus and Hollingsworth does is a crime.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 6/19/20 at 4:11 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
at the dedication of his statue, he looked one of my fish buddies in the eye and told her that she had no business wearing an Aggie Cadet uniform simply because she was a woman.
Yikes.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 4:14 pm to TbirdSpur2010
CS Lewis called it “chronological snobbery.” It’s a complete rejection and contempt for anything in the past, combined with unbridled hubris.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 4:45 pm to International_Aggie
quote:
“chronological snobbery.”
Apt.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 5:16 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Looks like the Matthew Gaines Initiative has surpassed their fundraising goal to build a statue of him on campus. Wonder if they'll leave Sully in place and put Gaines' statue next to him or something.
Link
Link
Posted on 6/19/20 at 5:33 pm to shiner17
That would be awkward.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 6:34 pm to Farmer1906
I'm fascinated by this whole thing.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 6:54 pm to shiner17
quote:
Looks like the Matthew Gaines Initiative has surpassed their fundraising goal to build a statue of him on campus. Wonder if they'll leave Sully in place and put Gaines' statue next to him or something.
Have him and Sully stand back to back. That way you see one when you enter the Academic Building and one when you leave and, if you approach it from any direction other than Simpson Field you see both.
Posted on 6/19/20 at 6:58 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Who will get the pennies?
Posted on 6/19/20 at 7:08 pm to Texas Weazel
quote:
Who will get the pennies?
I hope that is up to the discretion of the individual student. Frankly if I'm so superstitious that I need to put pennies by the base of a statue for luck, I'd put them with both.
This post was edited on 6/19/20 at 7:09 pm
Page 3 of 4
Latest Texas A&M News
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News