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Why doesn’t transitive property work?

Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:42 am
Posted by themetalreb
Mississippi
Member since Sep 2018
4005 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:42 am
Asking for Themetalreb…

ETA: Looking at the first few responses, I need to clarify. I totally get that it doesn’t work. I’m not saying it does. It’s just strange that it doesn’t.
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 7:50 am
Posted by Tornado Alley
Member since Mar 2012
26510 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:44 am to
2014 Ole Miss beat Bama by 6.

2014 Bama beat Arkansas by 1.

Transitive property said Rebs should beat Arkansas by more than 1 because they beat Bama who beat Arkansas.

Hogs beat the Rebs 30-0.
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 7:45 am
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
44874 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:45 am to
Humans have this weird thing about not being super consistent.

Also some strengths of teams don’t necessarily bear out against certain teams.
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 7:46 am
Posted by KajunGator
Lake Arthur, LA
Member since May 2011
7284 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:47 am to
Florida beat Tennessee
Kentucky beat Florida
Tennessee beat Kentucky
Posted by SidewalkTiger
Midwest, USA
Member since Dec 2019
52485 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:51 am to
quote:

Humans have this weird thing about not being super consistent.


Especially males that are 18-23
Posted by AGGIES
Member since Jul 2021
5500 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:53 am to
Why doesn’t it work?

Because there are a thousand variables that do not remain consistent week to week
Posted by themetalreb
Mississippi
Member since Sep 2018
4005 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:56 am to
But the most important variables are ALL the same
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
11165 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:56 am to
Because football is sometimes about individual matchups rather than overall record, etc.

Team A might be incredible against the run but be a mess against the pass.

If they play team B who is a run based offense that can’t throw the ball they will look great.

If they play team C who can’t run but throws the ball effectively team C will probably have a huge day even if their record is the same as team B.

It’s why any effective algorithm to predict scores has to take into account relative performance down to the run/pass level on both offense and defense to perform well.
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 7:11 pm
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23095 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:04 am to
quote:

individual matchups

Posted by AGGIES
Member since Jul 2021
5500 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:05 am to
quote:

But the most important variables are ALL the same


I disagree. All of these variables vary week to week.

Individual skill matchups (at each position)
Injuries
Location
Weather
Mental state
Posted by TouchdownTony
Central Alabama
Member since Apr 2016
9682 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:07 am to
Each day is different. If you accomplished x number of tasks today then tomorrow you should be able to do the same but we don’t.

Joe Pendry used to say every game he coached was like the opening game of the season. You don’t know how players will respond this week.
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
11903 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:07 am to
Posted by Che Boludo
Member since May 2009
18182 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:24 am to
quote:

Why doesn’t transitive property work?

The context of each game, variables from weather to player energy/prep/mistakes/successes, and matchups all matter. It is literally called a game of inches for a reason. A few plays made or missed here or there could have major impacts to the outcome and momentum.

Even two talented, evenly-matched teams can have drastically different outcomes from one game to the next against each other. Just look at the history of CFB matches in the same season or to the NFL.

The outcomes against common opponents have even less bearing as a predictor of a future match between the teams that played that common opponent.

There is a complexity and level of dynamism inherent in all human activity that makes it uncertain. While the %s may show a favorite, the teams still get a vote, so it's why they play the games.
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 8:27 am
Posted by mwade91383
Washington DC
Member since Mar 2010
5637 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:27 am to
You're talking about amateur athletes, not robots.
Posted by Che Boludo
Member since May 2009
18182 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:28 am to
quote:

All of these variables vary week to week.

Most vary half to half, quarter to quarter, series to series, and play to play.
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
44874 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:30 am to
quote:

But the most important variables are ALL the same

Posted by geauxnavybeatbama
Member since Jul 2013
25134 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:35 am to
I asked this before and got laughed at. You will too
Posted by koreandawg
South Korea
Member since Sep 2015
9000 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:37 am to
- matchups
- turnovers
- home field
- game plans (coaches are human and have their good and bad games)
- game play (players are human and have their good and bad games)
- kicking game
This post was edited on 11/3/23 at 8:50 am
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84839 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:40 am to
quote:

It’s just strange that it doesn’t.


It’s really not
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Why doesn’t transitive property work?
Because any given Saturday/Sunday…
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