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re: Why did Ole Miss football die after the 1960’s?
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:25 am to Fearless and True
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:25 am to Fearless and True
All time records:
USM: 378-312-6
Tulane: 532-649-35
Memphis: 350-356-8
Bowls:
USM: 12-11
Tulane: 7-8
Memphis: 6-8
USM: 378-312-6
Tulane: 532-649-35
Memphis: 350-356-8
Bowls:
USM: 12-11
Tulane: 7-8
Memphis: 6-8
0
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:29 am to Fearless and True
quote:Historically, USM was better than Tulane.
You think S Miss irrelevant football is somehow better than Memphis' program? Or Tulane?
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:52 am to cbree88
quote:
Why did Ole Miss football die after the 1960’s?
Integration and boosters. Integration speaks for itself, but I've always heard that the Kinard brothers got into it with big money boosters from Jackson. So, in the early 70s, both the talent and the money departed. Mix in a couple of mishires, and the program went into nuclear winter.
I can tell you that TV money has done wonders for Ole Miss. Even during the 90s if felt like the program was looking for coupons. The place has come a long way since then.
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 8:25 am
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:53 am to NaturalStateReb
quote:
I can tell you that TV money has done wonders for Ole Miss
You can say this about the whole conference, I feel.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:53 am to cbree88
We all miss Colonel Reb, but a school whose fans waved Confederate flags in the stands and whose fight song was literally "Dixie" was bound to struggle after integration.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 9:01 am to cbree88
1. Crap Coaches. I mean really bad coaches. The boosters were. more concerned with having control than hiring coaches who could win. They didn't hire a decent coach until Tuberville.
2. Recruiting. First dozen in state are as good as anywhere, second dozen is the big drop-off.
3. Rise of Alabama. Bama started winning big under Bear in the 60's. Archie was their last hurrah but even then their records wasn't great. It was not like they were going undefeated or anything.
2. Recruiting. First dozen in state are as good as anywhere, second dozen is the big drop-off.
3. Rise of Alabama. Bama started winning big under Bear in the 60's. Archie was their last hurrah but even then their records wasn't great. It was not like they were going undefeated or anything.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 9:30 am to cbree88
Everybody decided to start playing black players.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 10:13 am to prplhze2000
quote:
1. Crap Coaches. I mean really bad coaches. The boosters were. more concerned with having control than hiring coaches who could win. They didn't hire a decent coach until Tuberville.
This guy gets it.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 10:52 am to cbree88
It has a double whammy! It got dick cancer and AIDS.
RIP
RIP
Posted on 9/27/23 at 11:06 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:I'm pretty certain I recall black players at Ole Miss during the 1980s and on. Can you explain this further, I wasn't deep into other schools' recruiting then or even now.
We all miss Colonel Reb, but a school whose fans waved Confederate flags in the stands and whose fight song was literally "Dixie" was bound to struggle after integration
Posted on 9/27/23 at 11:27 am to Numberwang
quote:
Very Eye-opening
Wonder what his thoughts are on the south side of Chicago... or the lower ninth ward of New Orleans...
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 12:02 am
Posted on 9/27/23 at 11:34 am to pankReb
Quote
“That and nepotism.
Vaught guys kept hiring Vaught guys instead of better qualified people.”
This is the truth about Ole Miss. The Kinard brothers and their ilk destroyed what Vaught built. Vaught wanted Bob Tyler replace himself as HC but the Kinard’s outmaneuvered him to install themselves. Tyler left and a few years later became the HC at State. And everything changed.
Had Tyler been the HC at Ole Miss, they would have dominated State for another 25-30 years and would have won more SEC championships. Instead they have wallowed from good to average to mediocre ever since. In fairness, Ole Miss has had some really good teams here in there over the last fifty years but nothing that has been consistent.
“That and nepotism.
Vaught guys kept hiring Vaught guys instead of better qualified people.”
This is the truth about Ole Miss. The Kinard brothers and their ilk destroyed what Vaught built. Vaught wanted Bob Tyler replace himself as HC but the Kinard’s outmaneuvered him to install themselves. Tyler left and a few years later became the HC at State. And everything changed.
Had Tyler been the HC at Ole Miss, they would have dominated State for another 25-30 years and would have won more SEC championships. Instead they have wallowed from good to average to mediocre ever since. In fairness, Ole Miss has had some really good teams here in there over the last fifty years but nothing that has been consistent.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 11:42 am to cbree88
Johnny Vaught was the HC in the 50’s and 60’s and we never found a replacement. Ole Miss was the winningest program in the SEC behind Tennessee and Alabama in 1969.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 12:38 pm to Godawgs4
quote:
This is the truth about Ole Miss. The Kinard brothers and their ilk destroyed what Vaught built. Vaught wanted Bob Tyler replace himself as HC but the Kinard’s outmaneuvered him to install themselves. Tyler left and a few years later became the HC at State. And everything changed. Had Tyler been the HC at Ole Miss, they would have dominated State for another 25-30 years and would have won more SEC championships. Instead they have wallowed from good to average to mediocre ever since. In fairness, Ole Miss has had some really good teams here in there over the last fifty years but nothing that has been consistent.
Couldn’t remember the coach’s name but this is right. Obviously you could speak to this better than I could but Tyler ended up turning around the MSU program while we started our very steady decline. Archie was our “last hurrah”.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 1:38 pm to pankReb
There is a book called "The Courting of Marcus Dupree" that was written by Willie Morris. Mississippi native son who lived in Oxford and covered Marcus Dupree's senior season as the nation's #1 recruit in 1981-82.
He addressed this issue in the book. He basically said that even in the early '80s that the top Black players in the state did not consider Ole Miss due to the stigma associated with the school.
At that time, too many Black people remembered the James Meredith episode and riots. Too many Black people perceived Ole Miss as a shrine to "elite southern planter" culture. Black people weren't totally comfortable with "Rebels", "Col Reb" on the helmets, confederate flags at games, "Dixie". Morris also went on to say that Black players were especially uncomfortable about being thrown into the controversy regarding these southern symbols. Finally, he mentioned Oxford's fishbowl size at the time. Less than 20K population at the time but at the same time being one of the most pretentious places in the south.
It is a fascinating read and is as much about civil rights era in Mississippi as it was about Marcus Dupree.
He addressed this issue in the book. He basically said that even in the early '80s that the top Black players in the state did not consider Ole Miss due to the stigma associated with the school.
At that time, too many Black people remembered the James Meredith episode and riots. Too many Black people perceived Ole Miss as a shrine to "elite southern planter" culture. Black people weren't totally comfortable with "Rebels", "Col Reb" on the helmets, confederate flags at games, "Dixie". Morris also went on to say that Black players were especially uncomfortable about being thrown into the controversy regarding these southern symbols. Finally, he mentioned Oxford's fishbowl size at the time. Less than 20K population at the time but at the same time being one of the most pretentious places in the south.
It is a fascinating read and is as much about civil rights era in Mississippi as it was about Marcus Dupree.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 2:17 pm to Gunga Din
My pops was taught by Willie Morris. Used to drive him home from the bar after he had one too many.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 2:27 pm to Jake88
quote:
I'm pretty certain I recall black players at Ole Miss during the 1980s and on. Can you explain this further, I wasn't deep into other schools' recruiting then or even now.
If you can't figure out on your own why Ole Miss promoting their football team as, effectively, the reincarnation of the Confederate Army might negatively impact their ability to recruit black players, then you are either willfully refusing to see the truth, or you are so stupid that you wouldn't understand even if I tried to explain it to you using very small words.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 2:56 pm to Woodrow Wilson
The real reasons are:
1. Integration
2. Vaught was a generational coach. His tenure is really the ONLY period in which they could be considered a great program. Brewer, Cutcliffe, Freeze, and now Kiffin all had them above average or good, but not great. They stunk before Vaught and have been mediocre since.
3. Until 1965, they dodged the best teams in the SEC, sans LSU. Once they started playing the better teams in the SEC regularly (namely Alabama) and Vaught left, they became mediocre very quickly and have remained there.
1. Integration
2. Vaught was a generational coach. His tenure is really the ONLY period in which they could be considered a great program. Brewer, Cutcliffe, Freeze, and now Kiffin all had them above average or good, but not great. They stunk before Vaught and have been mediocre since.
3. Until 1965, they dodged the best teams in the SEC, sans LSU. Once they started playing the better teams in the SEC regularly (namely Alabama) and Vaught left, they became mediocre very quickly and have remained there.
Posted on 9/27/23 at 3:09 pm to Jeb Busch Lite
It is really too simple to state "Integration" without acknowledging why it impacted Ole Miss disproportionately.
1. They played Dixie into the 2010s at their games. Several southern schools used to play Dixie at football games, including Arkansas. For perspective, the Great Shootout of 1969 was the first game Arkansas didn't play Dixie at a football game, due to black student protests. In 1969... Ole Miss kept it up for another 50+ years.
2. They waved Confederate flags at football games up until almost the 2000s. I can remember in the late 1990s, Ole Miss fans and students waving thousands of rebel flags at their games. It seems weird now, but the only way they got that to stop was by banning sticks being brought into the stadium (and handing out stick-less pompoms).
3. Their students chanted The South Will Rise Again! at their games when they played that chopped-up version of Dixie in the pre-game and post-game. That definitely took place well into the 2010s.
The prevailing culture at Ole Miss is still like that, they've just dropped most of the accoutrements. They call themselves "Ole Miss" for frick's sake. Their school nickname itself is a Confederate dogwhistle.
So yeah...it was Integration at a school that deeply values its Confederate heritage and maintaining it.
1. They played Dixie into the 2010s at their games. Several southern schools used to play Dixie at football games, including Arkansas. For perspective, the Great Shootout of 1969 was the first game Arkansas didn't play Dixie at a football game, due to black student protests. In 1969... Ole Miss kept it up for another 50+ years.
2. They waved Confederate flags at football games up until almost the 2000s. I can remember in the late 1990s, Ole Miss fans and students waving thousands of rebel flags at their games. It seems weird now, but the only way they got that to stop was by banning sticks being brought into the stadium (and handing out stick-less pompoms).
3. Their students chanted The South Will Rise Again! at their games when they played that chopped-up version of Dixie in the pre-game and post-game. That definitely took place well into the 2010s.
The prevailing culture at Ole Miss is still like that, they've just dropped most of the accoutrements. They call themselves "Ole Miss" for frick's sake. Their school nickname itself is a Confederate dogwhistle.
So yeah...it was Integration at a school that deeply values its Confederate heritage and maintaining it.
This post was edited on 9/27/23 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 9/27/23 at 3:16 pm to Hogfan13
You're full of pigshit boy
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