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What are the downsides of Tenn-style offense?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:38 pm
Everyone is talking about how undefendable it is, they spread you out, they force you to bring safeties up to stop the run, then scalp you over the top. And they do it at a fast pace so you can't sub or catch your breath or get your own defensive plays called and assignments pointed out.
Why doesn't everyone in the country run this offense? If it's so undefendable.
There must be a downside.
The only thing off the top of my head I can think of, is if you make mistakes and go three and out, your defense has no time to rest itself, wearing out your own defense even faster than you are wearing out the opponent's defense.
Other than that, what are the Xs and Os downsides of this style/scheme?
Why doesn't everyone in the country run this offense? If it's so undefendable.
There must be a downside.
The only thing off the top of my head I can think of, is if you make mistakes and go three and out, your defense has no time to rest itself, wearing out your own defense even faster than you are wearing out the opponent's defense.
Other than that, what are the Xs and Os downsides of this style/scheme?
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Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:41 pm to deeprig9
I assume the downside is that ya need an elite QB and elite WRS to pull it off efficiently.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:41 pm to deeprig9
quote:
they force you to bring safeties up to stop the run
What happens if you don’t need to do this?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:41 pm to deeprig9
Personnel.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:42 pm to deeprig9
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:42 pm to deeprig9
The biggest downsides (not discussing needing personnel types, which are a different discussion) are
(a) If you get behind the sticks then on 1st down then it becomes much, much easier to stop. So, if you allow the defense to get you into 2nd and 8+ then you get in a lot of trouble........which leads to........
(b) If you pile up 3 and outs then you are off the field really, really, really fast, and your defense is on the field a whole lot.
That's why Tennessee's run game is so important. They have a solid OL and have managed to get 3-4 yards pretty consistently against everyone they've played and have avoided big sacks on 2nd and 5s. If they stay on schedule they are nearly impossible to stop. If you get them off schedule you have a chance.
But the biggest thing is personnel. Tennessee has a fantastic collection of personnel to run the offense they have:
- QB - smart, tough, physical and quick runner who knows the system well, is accurate and makes good decisions
- WR - a combination of burners and big physical guys who are confident in their route decisions (because the offense is very reliant on the QB and the WR reading the same route adjustment based on coverage)
- RB - small, tough runners who push piles and find small gaps on their quick hitters (not game breakers, but very good at getting 3+ yards 90% of the time)
- OL - a solid, veteran OL that knows the offense and gets decent push
That is why getting them in a bad down and distance is critical. If you can eliminate stuff (runs/screens) due to down and distance situation, then their stuff becomes much simpler to defend because you don't have to worry about the runs. It also disables them from making the quick "count the box" decisions.
However, that is easier said than done.
(a) If you get behind the sticks then on 1st down then it becomes much, much easier to stop. So, if you allow the defense to get you into 2nd and 8+ then you get in a lot of trouble........which leads to........
(b) If you pile up 3 and outs then you are off the field really, really, really fast, and your defense is on the field a whole lot.
That's why Tennessee's run game is so important. They have a solid OL and have managed to get 3-4 yards pretty consistently against everyone they've played and have avoided big sacks on 2nd and 5s. If they stay on schedule they are nearly impossible to stop. If you get them off schedule you have a chance.
But the biggest thing is personnel. Tennessee has a fantastic collection of personnel to run the offense they have:
- QB - smart, tough, physical and quick runner who knows the system well, is accurate and makes good decisions
- WR - a combination of burners and big physical guys who are confident in their route decisions (because the offense is very reliant on the QB and the WR reading the same route adjustment based on coverage)
- RB - small, tough runners who push piles and find small gaps on their quick hitters (not game breakers, but very good at getting 3+ yards 90% of the time)
- OL - a solid, veteran OL that knows the offense and gets decent push
That is why getting them in a bad down and distance is critical. If you can eliminate stuff (runs/screens) due to down and distance situation, then their stuff becomes much simpler to defend because you don't have to worry about the runs. It also disables them from making the quick "count the box" decisions.
However, that is easier said than done.
This post was edited on 11/2/22 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:44 pm to theliontamer
I'll tell you one downside right now ... takes a very confident coach to run it. Because you have to trust the kids to go out there and just execute previously designed stuff.
That right there runs against modern football theory, where everything is based upon a new offensive personnel package every down. Literally, every down.
Heupel has the balls to just put shite in practice, and let the kids run it. Over and over and over again if they get the mismatches they want. Most coaches have too much ego to let that happen. They have to get involved.
That right there runs against modern football theory, where everything is based upon a new offensive personnel package every down. Literally, every down.
Heupel has the balls to just put shite in practice, and let the kids run it. Over and over and over again if they get the mismatches they want. Most coaches have too much ego to let that happen. They have to get involved.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:44 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Why doesn't everyone in the country run this offense? If it's so undefendable
Because not everyone in the country has a Hooker type of QB. That sideline to sideline stuff only works if your QB has the arm strength to use it, you're begging for picks otherwise. Your QB also has to make quick decisions because spreading out that wide opens up more space for pass rushers.
Simply put, Tennessee has the QB to make it work, but any team that doesn't will have a bad time trying to execute such an offense
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:47 pm to deeprig9
quote:
The only thing off the top of my head I can think of, is if you make mistakes and go three and out, your defense has no time to rest itself, wearing out your own defense even faster than you are wearing out the opponent's defense.
This is certainly one of them.
Another problem is if you dont hit a big play the offense seems to need to get off the field in about 8-10 plays, if they dont you lose rythym.
They seem to have developed an i formation this year that they didnt have last year but we sucked arse at short yardage and goal line situations before they figured that out.
I think it also requires very strong quarterback play which isnt always an option.
It hasnt been that bad this year but last year the games against Ole Miss and Purdue resulted in 6 hour long games due to constant faking injuries
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:49 pm to themicah85
Go back and watch Tennessee against anybody. They run the ball more than they pass.
Seriously ... its about 55-45 run heavy. What they are doing isn't all magic with the QB and WRs. They run more than they pass.
Seriously ... its about 55-45 run heavy. What they are doing isn't all magic with the QB and WRs. They run more than they pass.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:51 pm to deeprig9
quote:
The only thing off the top of my head I can think of, is if you make mistakes and go three and out, your defense has no time to rest itself, wearing out your own defense even faster than you are wearing out the opponent's defense.
This. It's the main reason why Tenn went 7-6 last year.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:51 pm to deeprig9
The downside is if a team cannot move the ball you use no clock time. That was an issue at Mizzou when Huepel was their OC(?). It’s an O that either works or it doesn’t. No middle ground. You either have the players or you do not.
The way to beat the Vols this year is you need to win the shootout. You need 5 stops more than they stop you. Do it by turnovers or forcing punts but you need 5 more. 5 more keeps you from going for it in unfavorable 4th downs, from playing outside your game, from taking chances you can’t afford to make.
The way to beat the Vols this year is you need to win the shootout. You need 5 stops more than they stop you. Do it by turnovers or forcing punts but you need 5 more. 5 more keeps you from going for it in unfavorable 4th downs, from playing outside your game, from taking chances you can’t afford to make.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:52 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Everyone is talking about how undefendable it is
I haven't seen "everyone" say that, but I do remember a lot of people saying it about Malzahn's offense in 2013
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:53 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Tennessee Pass Splits
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 6 or less
161/221 (72.9%)
11.51 YPA
24 TD/2 INT
3rd and 7+ and 4th down
26/45 (57.8%)
9.88 YPA
3 TD/1 INT
That's still pretty good on 3rd and long, but it's a big drop off - especially in success rate.
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 6 or less
161/221 (72.9%)
11.51 YPA
24 TD/2 INT
3rd and 7+ and 4th down
26/45 (57.8%)
9.88 YPA
3 TD/1 INT
That's still pretty good on 3rd and long, but it's a big drop off - especially in success rate.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:54 pm to Smokeyone
quote:
The downside is if a team cannot move the ball you use no clock time. That was an issue at Mizzou when Huepel was their OC(?). It’s an O that either works or it doesn’t. No middle ground. You either have the players or you do not.
Yep - and that's why his splits vs bad teams/good teams at Mizzou/UCF were so striking. Because there were certain teams that he just didn't have the guys to beat with his system (which he's also tweaked since those days, for the better).
This year - he basically has the players to beat anyone with it. Or, we'll find out in the last test of it Saturday I guess.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:54 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Tennessee Pass Splits
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 6 or less
161/221 (72.9%)
11.51 YPA
24 TD/2 INT
3rd and 7+ and 4th down
26/45 (57.8%)
9.88 YPA
3 TD/1 INT
Is that including last year?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:55 pm to deeprig9
The biggest downside is he is prone to super quick 3 and puts if they miss on first and second down. I do believe now that he is a HC he’s much more mindful of complimentary football than he was as a OC.
They aren’t really schematically that unique. They split their outside WR out past the hash where most teams don’t.
They are just really good right now. They’ve got a bunch of explosive WR and they have a talented QB who is two year into the system and their OL is doing a damn good job.
You beat it just like any other good passing offense. You harass and hit the QB. Hooker makes that harder because he is mobile, but that’s what you have to do.
It’s not a great matchup for Georgia to be honest. You better get into the 40s or close to it if you want to win.
They aren’t really schematically that unique. They split their outside WR out past the hash where most teams don’t.
They are just really good right now. They’ve got a bunch of explosive WR and they have a talented QB who is two year into the system and their OL is doing a damn good job.
You beat it just like any other good passing offense. You harass and hit the QB. Hooker makes that harder because he is mobile, but that’s what you have to do.
It’s not a great matchup for Georgia to be honest. You better get into the 40s or close to it if you want to win.
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:55 pm to theaerialview
quote:
Is that including last year?
No that is just this year - and speaks to how good the offense is that 58% and 9.9 YPA is a step "down"
Posted on 11/2/22 at 4:57 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
No that is just this year - and speaks to how good the offense is that 58% and 9.9 YPA is a step "down"
Impressive stats, and nice find. Hooker only has one INT, however... or am I reading it incorrectly?
Posted on 11/2/22 at 5:00 pm to Smokeyone
quote:
The way to beat the Vols this year is you need to win the shootout. You need 5 stops more than they stop you.
Absolutely not. No way, no how. But that's the kind of thinking where Tenner baits coaches ... like Kentucky's ... into doing dumb shite.
Its all about efficiency. Old school football games went 120 plays. Tenner bumps that up, with their pace, to about 140 to 150. So its the difference between a ten possession and twelve possession game. That's part of the numbers they put up.
The key, on offense, is to do what you do to maximize your chances to score ... on that possession, every possession. Spoiler Alert - most coaches do not approach offense that way. Most of them approach offense as an opportunity to punt. Heupel, however, does not.
Georgia absolutely DOES NOT need "five more stops". They need to use the possessions they have, every time, to score. If that means eight possessions feeding the TEs ? Fine. Do that.
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