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re: Was Saban truly better than Bear?
Posted on 5/24/26 at 10:29 am to prplhze2000
Posted on 5/24/26 at 10:29 am to prplhze2000
Correction: It was '77 that Bama got screwed. Texas (#1) and Oklahoma (#2) lost their bowl games. Alabama (#3) beats Ohio State decisively in the Sugar Bowl. But, of course, the northern sportswriters hand it to Notre Dame.
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Posted on 5/24/26 at 10:41 am to SlingingSnakeStabler
What you say about Mac is true but he got stale his last few years. LSU was one of the elite programs in the late 50's and 60's. Mac kept going what Dietzel built. However, the program got stale. The recruiting got stale. The offense got stale. Yes, he went 8-3 in his last two years but the bowls were the Sun Bowl and the Tangerine Bowl. Minor bowls at the time.
Gone were the days of New Years Day bowls. We were no longer competing with the Notre Dames and Nebraskas, much less Alabama.
Gone were the days of New Years Day bowls. We were no longer competing with the Notre Dames and Nebraskas, much less Alabama.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 10:58 am to SlingingSnakeStabler
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But McClendon won, as has been said over and over, 8 games during each of his succesive last 2 full seasons.
You have said that over and over, but it's still 8 and 7.
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Not exactly on a horrible downsroke, was he?
Like you said, the damage was already done at that point.
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Red Drew wasn't fired; he stepped down
Incorrect.
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until he was fired the next season midway through after, you guessed it, losing to Bama.
You also keep saying this, yet it's also incorrect.
In our exchange here, you've made at least 5 incorrect statements despite. Perhaps your erroneous beliefs are the root cause of your lack of understanding of the problem.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 11:01 am to prplhze2000
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Was Saban truly better than Bear?
prplhze2000
Or did he enjoy an advantage because of a playoff system not available to Bea
Saban may very well be the better coach, two different times
Saban had to deal with recruiting limits of 25
Bear loaded up recruiting classes when recruiting limits were almost unlimited, teams could sign as many players that they could afford scholarships.
He would gobble up players other SEC schools could have gotten
Both are legends and really should not be compared
I do agree that a playoff system would have brought more National Titles to Alabama for Bear's teams
Posted on 5/24/26 at 11:56 am to dchog
Unfortunately, not the first or last time Arkansas has been on the wrong side of the "helmet test" when referees are involved.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 12:03 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
1950 Kentucky was a great team, for sure. However, none of the polls at the time give that national championship to the Wildcats. Oklahoma was undefeated in the regular season, and national championships were given before the bowls. So, the fact that the Sagarin rating gave Kentucky a championship 40 years after the fact is irrelevant.
Unless you want to start acknowledging some of the completely ridiculous championships Auburn claimed last summer.
(All of which were still better claims than Bama's 1941, so there's that.)
Unless you want to start acknowledging some of the completely ridiculous championships Auburn claimed last summer.
(All of which were still better claims than Bama's 1941, so there's that.)
Posted on 5/24/26 at 1:38 pm to Thorny
Yup. Beat Oklahoma , snapping its 31 game winning streak. But the bowl game did not count. Kentucky had lost one game that year. Parilli couldn't pass in wet freezing weather that one game.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 3:45 pm to captdalton
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I applaud you for taking a common sense approach to this. You are clearly an erudite man, yet you explain things in a way that even most simpletons can digest. Most but not all.
Clearly Cholly was one of LSU’s better coaches. His overall winning percentage, despite being internally sabotaged, is higher than LSU’s all-time winning percentage.
You know what they say. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. If you cherry pick and manipulate statistics you can support any argument in the world.
For example, if you exclude Nick Saban’s 5 best seasons at LSU, he has a winning percentage of 0%. Yes, if you exclude Nick Saban’s 5 best seasons, he had zero wins. And if you exclude his 5 worst seasons at LSU he had zero wins and a .000 winning percentage. So clearly he was LSU’s worst coach. His .000 winning percentage is proof. That is the type of disingenuous and dishonest argument you often find here. But after all, it can be expected as this, as we are often reminded, is a LSU site.
Thanks, CaptDalton. It's good to be complimented. I could not have described the psyche of LSU fans any better than you just have.
By nature, due to their ancestors, they are devious and cunning and lack integral identifiers that can be found in most other groups of people.
They lack honesty, thrive on trickery much like Gypsies, celebrate decadence and debauchery and have always been a sidelined and marginal group because of that.
The various Indian groups and both free people of color and slaves in Louisiana were wary of their ancestors because they viewed them as untrustworthy and lacking civility and honor.
Even though the Cajuns did breed with the Indians and blacks and became who they are today due to that, they were never fully accepted by either group.
It was one of our society's great mistakes. The amalgamate of naturally cowardly, sneaky, unwashed, and ignorant people with American Indians and slaves and free blacks was just not a good mix at all.
It happens. But now there is this group of misfits left behind that can't function properly in a modern society.
LSU fans do, I guess, deserve our pity.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 4:25 pm to SidewalkTiger
I'll leave you this snippet that I will copy and paste here about the demented ravings and Cannon's perhaps CTE brain damaged campaign against one of the best coaches LSU has ever had.
Of course, LSU being LSU, the power brokers of the time ate it up hook, line, and sinker.
It's a true tragedy of epic proportions. It's almost like Cannon believed McClendon was fricking his wife or something.
In conclusion, the erratic, crawdad dick, emotional, and excited men in charge of LSU were persuaded by a felon clown to get rid of one of their best ever.
How sad.
Of course, LSU being LSU, the power brokers of the time ate it up hook, line, and sinker.
It's a true tragedy of epic proportions. It's almost like Cannon believed McClendon was fricking his wife or something.
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Billy Cannon played a pivotal role in the firing of LSU coach Charles McClendon by publicly campaigning for his dismissal and directly influencing the LSU Board of Supervisors.
Although McClendon had coached for 17 years and maintained a 70% win rate, the Board acted on Cannon’s assertions that McClendon was failing to recruit top Louisiana talent, such as Terry Bradshaw, and was too conservative.
Public Criticism: Cannon, a 1959 Heisman Trophy winner and LSU legend, spoke at local organizations like the Kiwanis and Rotary, arguing that McClendon could not create an effective offense or motivate teams consistently.
Direct Lobbying: Cannon personally approached the Board of Supervisors, convincing them that McClendon was incompetent and that firing him was in the best interest of the program.
Board Action: Persuaded by Cannon’s arguments, the Board offered McClendon a choice to resign immediately with a payout or stay for two more years; McClendon chose to stay but was ultimately fired in 1979 after subsequent seasons did not meet the heightened expectations for a national championship.
In conclusion, the erratic, crawdad dick, emotional, and excited men in charge of LSU were persuaded by a felon clown to get rid of one of their best ever.
How sad.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 4:28 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
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the Board acted on Cannon’s assertions that McClendon was failing to recruit top Louisiana talent, such as Terry Bradshaw, and was too conservative.
Considering the sub 60% win percentage over the final third of McClendon's tenure, it would seem that Cannon had a point.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 7:45 pm to SidewalkTiger
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Considering the sub 60% win percentage over the final third of McClendon's tenure, it would seem that Cannon had a point.
But all the next 5 coaches for a long 20 years never combined for a win % of over 60% either. It seems, in hindsight, the feminine overreaction of LSU administrators, influenced by a mush brain, didn't improve anything much at all.
I bet McClendon could have continued to improve on those last 2 full 8 win seasons and dominated SEC football for a very long time.
Afterall, he knew how to win and had a staggering 70% win %, which is outstanding for any program and any coach.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 7:47 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
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But all the next 5 coaches for a long 20 years never combined for a win % of over 60% either. It seems, in hindsight, the feminine overreaction of LSU administrators, influenced by a mush brain, didn't improve anything much at all.
Well, they didn't have the benefit of hindsight. And they didn't know that the replacement would be killed in a plane crash.
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I bet McClendon could have continued to improve on those last 2 full 8 win seasons and dominated SEC football for a very long time
He only won 7 games in his final season.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 7:57 pm to SidewalkTiger
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Well, they didn't have the benefit of hindsight. And they didn't know that the replacement would be killed in a plane crash.
The replacement was not going to be any better than the other 5 coaches who came after McClendon.
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He only won 7 games in his final season.
As stated, Cholly Mac won 8 games in 2 consecutive seasons before he was fired midway through his last.
He only won 5 games his last season because he was fired before it was over.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 7:59 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
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The replacement was not going to be any better than the other 5 coaches who came after McClendon.
That's your opinion.
Several of those coaches won at a higher clip than McClendon was winning at the end.
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As stated, Cholly Mac won 8 games in 2 consecutive seasons before he was fired midway through his last.
He only won 5 games his last season because he was fired before it was over.
He was not fired midway through his final season. Not sure why you keep saying that.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 8:29 pm to SidewalkTiger
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He was not fired midway through his final season. Not sure why you keep saying that.
See, that's why I come to an LSU board to talk to LSU fans. I thought he was actually fired after losing to Bama. Now, thanks to you, I did some research and found out that he was informed his job was over after losing to Bama for the eight straight time but was allowed to lame duck out the remaining games.
Seems kind of reactionary and not thought through very well to fire a wonderful head coach for losing to the best there ever was.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 8:57 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
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See, that's why I come to an LSU board to talk to LSU fans. I thought he was actually fired after losing to Bama. Now, thanks to you, I did some research and found out that he was informed his job was over after losing to Bama for the eight straight time but was allowed to lame duck out the remaining games.
That was in his second to last year, not the actual final season.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 9:22 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
You are full of crap. It was announced before the final season it would be his last. In other words, he was given a farewell tour.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 9:30 pm to prplhze2000
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You are full of crap. It was announced before the final season it would be his last. In other words, he was given a farewell tour.
No, I'm pretty sure the loss to Alabama during the '79 season was when they came to him and said that's finally it, Cannon has got his wish and you are gone.
I mean, I know he knew that he was a dead man walking a year or so before because of the psychotic, voodoo witch hunt and the baby goats and newly hatched chicks the coonasses were sacrificing down in Lafayette to hasten his removal.
I'm going to need confirmation that he was actually told before the season started that he was out. If wrong, that's what I'm here for.
I'm not an LSU fan, btw, so I like to learn what I can about them.
This post was edited on 5/24/26 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 5/24/26 at 9:32 pm to SlingingSnakeStabler
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No, I'm pretty sure the loss to Alabama during the '79 season was when they came to him and said that's finally it, Cannon has got his wish and you are gone.
Nope.
It was after the Bama game in '78.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 10:31 pm to SidewalkTiger
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Nope.
It was after the Bama game in '78.
Do you have any verification that I could confirm on that?
I have learned all of the below from an And The Valley Shook article.
The more I read about his situation, the more pitiful it becomes. Dietzel, his longtime nemesis, was brought back to LSU as the hatchet man to find a way to fire him. I didn't know that.
Here is a snippet from a Washington Post reporter:
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Billy Cannon was the loudest voice calling for McClendon to be fired. Dave Kindred, then of The Washington Post, wrote the definitive take at the time:
After the only two bad years of his career — LSU won nine games, lost 11 and tied one in 1974 and 1975 — McClendon was called in by the LSU Board of Suprvisors and given a choice.
He had four years left on a 10-year contract.
He could quit on the spot and be paid off. Or he could stay two more seasons.
The Board of Supervisors did what it thought best for LSU. It thought firing Charlie McClendon was the thing because an ex-LSU football player told them it was the best thing.
The player was Billy Cannon, who played on LSU’s national championship team in 1958 and won the Heisman Trophy in 1959. The coach then was Paul Dietzel. McClendon was an assistant coach.
Cannon now is a dentist in Baton Rouge who, like thousands of people in in this state, thinks he knows how to run a big-time college football program.
Because Cannon once could run with a football in his hands, the Board of Supervisors believed he knew what he was talking about.
Making speeches around the state, Cannon told whoever asked that McClendon could not recruit, that LSU was losing too many good Louisiana players to other schools. Why, Cannon asked, did Terry Bradshaw, of Shreveport, go to Louisiana Tech and not LSU?
Cannon said McClendon could not create an offense worth the name. Too conservative, McClendon was a nice guy, sure. Cannon gave him that. But Coach Mac was too nice; he would not fire longtime assistants who were incompetent.
Whenever Cannon spoke to the Kiwanis, or the Rotary, people would ask him if McClendon could motivate his teams. The kids get themselves up for big games, Cannon would answer, but in the basic week-to-week games they were not good enough to beat good teams. No recruiting.
Here was Bryant's and McClendon's chat during the handshake after the Bama game in '79:
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The Washington Post game story reads like a slow-motion tragedy:
“We just weren’t good enough,” Charlie McClendon said to Bear Bryant, the pupil to his old teacher, the LSU coach to the Alabama coach, the man fired to the man whose teams got him fired.
“Cholly Mac, I’m so sorry,” said Bryant, who coached McClendon 30 years ago and now has beaten his LSU teams nine straight years, a dominance that was a factor in LSU firing McClendon.
“You’ve done a great job,” Bryant said when the men met at midfield in a chilly, misting rain that fell all night long, lending a touch of melancholy to the coaches’ last such meeting.
“You’re No. 1, Babe,” McClendon said, and Bryant said, “You gave us all we could handle.”
Poor Cholly Mac, only one losing season in 18 years and the idiots turned on him. He just may have been the man that could have changed LSU's trajectory and made them a historically relevant team.
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