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TCU knew Michigan was sign stealing prior to CFP, used 'dummy signals' to dupe Wolverines

Posted on 10/27/23 at 8:54 am
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23092 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 8:54 am
SIAP:
quote:

During TCU’s game against Michigan in last year’s College Football Playoff semifinal, trickery was afoot.

TCU coaches, having gained information on Michigan’s elaborate sign-stealing scheme, changed many of their play-call signals before kickoff. However, head coach Sonny Dykes and the Horned Frogs staff had grander ideas than just changing signals.

They pulled a fast one on the Wolverines.

They mixed in new play-call signals with old ones, using what one TCU staff member described as “dummy signals” in an effort to trick the UM staff. The dummy signals were old play-calls that had since been changed. Players were told to ignore the dummy signals and run the original play as called with the new signals.

“Sometimes we froze a play before the snap,” said one TCU coach. “We’d call a play and then we’d signal in another play with an old signal but we told players to run the original play.”



TCU, a 7.5-point underdog, beat Michigan 51-45 in that semifinal clash in the Fiesta Bowl, stunning much of the college football world in a victory that propelled Dykes’ team to the national championship game against Georgia.

Not long after the CFP unveiled the 2022 semifinal matchups — Georgia vs. Ohio State and TCU vs. Michigan — the Horned Frogs staff began receiving phone calls from coaches across the country about what was a well-known fact in the Big Ten coaching community: that Michigan had an elaborate sign-stealing system.

“Literally everybody we talked to knew,” said one TCU coach. “They’d say, ‘Just so you know, they steal your signals and they’re going to have everything so you better change them.’”

One coach told the staff that Michigan “has the most elaborate signal-stealing in the history of the world.”

So they purposely used the old signals to trick the Wolverines — a move not-so-surprising given the savvy nature of their head coach. Dykes is a protégé of Mike Leach, a coach known for poking fun at those who steal signals.

Plenty of folks see much of Leach in Dykes. And so why not give the Wolverines some of their own medicine?


Yahoo Sports (Ross Dellenger)

Also, shout-out to Larry Leo for the scoop.
Posted by dstone12
Texan
Member since Jan 2007
30161 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 8:55 am to
It’s been bandied about. I

If you know that someone is cheating, you can stay compliant by giving fake signals.

Glad they did.
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 8:56 am
Posted by Tuscaloosa
11x Award Winning SECRant user
Member since Dec 2011
46604 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 8:57 am to
That is wild. Good for TCU figuring that shite out.

Michigan’s entire history is going to be tarnished by this, rightfully or not.
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23092 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:00 am to
quote:

It’s been bandied about

Nice call.

Yeah, that's genius to not only change your signals, but use it against the other team. I can't even imagine how difficult that must've been to implement in such a short period of time.

Safe to say TCU never would have beaten Michigan if they hadn't done this?
Posted by Hback
Member since Aug 2017
9207 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:02 am to

Posted by RedPants
GA
Member since Jan 2013
5413 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:03 am to
Good on TCU. Still think Michigan is getting too much flak for this. Scouting the other teams signs seems like part of the game. They were just blatant and stupid about it.
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23092 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:08 am to
quote:

Michigan’s entire history is going to be tarnished by this

Has to be additionally painful that this scandal breaks for them in a season that already began with a self-imposed three-game suspension for Harbaugh.

Now this, just months later.
quote:

The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant.
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23092 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:09 am to
quote:

Scouting the other teams signs seems like part of the game
quote:

Signal-stealing is not against NCAA rules. However, the association prohibits coaches or staff members scouting games of upcoming opponents in person — a near 30-year-old rule.
Posted by elposter
Member since Dec 2010
24906 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:11 am to
quote:

TCU knew Michigan was sign stealing prior to CFP, used 'dummy signals' to dupe Wolverines


Good for TCU, but this shite is how you get a 65-7 "NC" game for the rest of us to deal with.
Posted by cattus
Member since Jan 2009
13425 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:14 am to
Should have tOSU done the same?
That game against UGA was the actual National Championship.
Posted by RedPants
GA
Member since Jan 2013
5413 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:15 am to
quote:

Signal-stealing is not against NCAA rules. However, the association prohibits coaches or staff members scouting games of upcoming opponents in person — a near 30-year-old rule.

It's a stupid rule.
Posted by OlGrandad
Member since Oct 2009
3493 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:17 am to
Harbaugh just thought he had great assistant coaches.
quote:

No evidence has emerged either implicating coach Jim Harbaugh directly or showing he had knowledge of Michigan's in-person scouting operation, sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Posted by lowhound
Effie
Member since Aug 2014
7530 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:19 am to
quote:

Plenty of folks see much of Leach in Dykes. And so why not give the Wolverines some of their own medicine?


Reminds me of the story Leach told about the fake play script he left for Texas and he ran the exact opposite plays to counter the fake script.
The Cotton Bowl Caper
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 9:20 am
Posted by Lgrnwd
Member since Jan 2018
5215 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:23 am to
I love it. Stupid rule, let teams scout/spy signs all they want. Makes a for a great cat and mouse game.

Team A: “We got them! We know their signs.”
Team B: “They know our signs? Ok, but they don’t know that we know they know. Got them!”
Team A: “Oh yea? But they don’t know that we know that they know we know. Got them!”
This post was edited on 10/27/23 at 9:28 am
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
23092 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 9:59 am to
Posted by Buckeye06
Member since Dec 2007
23117 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Should have tOSU done the same?
That game against UGA was the actual National Championship


I think there are a few things:

1. From OSU sources, the extent of the sign stuff wasn't known before the game last year. They knew there was stuff going on but not the extent
2. TCU had 15 practices and OSU had like 3-4 in game week
3. OSU gave TCU the information
Posted by MetryMauler
Member since Sep 2016
7132 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:12 am to
I would think Michigan could figure out quickly that the signs it was stealing against TCU were no good. Can't imagine they relied on the signs past the first series or two.
Posted by dstone12
Texan
Member since Jan 2007
30161 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:13 am to
quote:

. I can't even imagine how difficult that must've been to implement in such a short period of time.
it cannot be done with dummies at each position, either. They had tk buy in instantly. That’s coaching. I’d be salivating at faking a signal and having the defense think I was doing so wrong else. That’s how you get buy in.
Posted by Walkthedawg
Dawg Pound
Member since Oct 2012
11466 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:14 am to
Well that blew up in their face but they're used to that:



Posted by Buckeye06
Member since Dec 2007
23117 posts
Posted on 10/27/23 at 10:29 am to
quote:

I would think Michigan could figure out quickly that the signs it was stealing against TCU were no good. Can't imagine they relied on the signs past the first series or two.



If I was TCU, I would have used new signs during some of the game, then when there was a 3rd and short i needed, go to an old sign but have the play different. Then the Michigan coaching staff isn't reading fake signs and seeing it that fast. Mix it in
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