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Serious question for Kentucky folks : When do you start getting truly frustrated re: Cal?
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:22 pm
Now - any mortal program would be ecstatic at the success Cal has had so far. 1 National Title, 3 Final Fours, 5 Elite 8s, 27+ wins 7 of 8 seasons. However, you aren't a mortal program, you are Kentucky.
Cal is now in Year 9 and, unless something extraordinary happens, will not be adding a 2nd national title to the banner in Rupp. This will, probably, be the 3rd straight year that Kentucky will fail to make it to the Final Four. Again, in almost every other program in America this sort of question would be laughably ridiculous, but Kentucky isn't every other program in America. On top of that he has obviously had so much talent, and that talent turns over quickly making your attachment to kids a little bit less "enjoyable", perhaps, than it used to be. And, now Duke seems to ripping off more and more of the Elite of the Elite kids that Kentucky was signing all of in the past.
So, I guess my question after all that rambling is, are you happy with things? Is there any bit of frustration or even grumbling? Are things that Cal used to say/do that were loved starting to get eye rolls and "yea, whatevers" from people in Big Blue Nation? Or, do Kentucky folks realize they are still an elite program with a chance at winning a national title every season and that things are still rolling right along?
Cal is now in Year 9 and, unless something extraordinary happens, will not be adding a 2nd national title to the banner in Rupp. This will, probably, be the 3rd straight year that Kentucky will fail to make it to the Final Four. Again, in almost every other program in America this sort of question would be laughably ridiculous, but Kentucky isn't every other program in America. On top of that he has obviously had so much talent, and that talent turns over quickly making your attachment to kids a little bit less "enjoyable", perhaps, than it used to be. And, now Duke seems to ripping off more and more of the Elite of the Elite kids that Kentucky was signing all of in the past.
So, I guess my question after all that rambling is, are you happy with things? Is there any bit of frustration or even grumbling? Are things that Cal used to say/do that were loved starting to get eye rolls and "yea, whatevers" from people in Big Blue Nation? Or, do Kentucky folks realize they are still an elite program with a chance at winning a national title every season and that things are still rolling right along?
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 12:28 pm
10
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:25 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Kentucky, as the program with the second most NCs in CBB history, only has 8 National Championships through several decades and some fantastic coaches. There are only a handful of active coaches with 2 or more NCs. Cal is fine.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:27 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Currently my only negative view of Cal is the same as that with college basketball as a whole, the one and done. The kids come may or may not do well, go to the NBA and you start over. This leads to inconsitent teams during the season.
If we start to consistently get lower seeds, fail to make it deep into the tournament, aren't winning the SEC regularly, and are no longer a team that is feared in basketball by other schools, Cal needs to be gone.
If we start to consistently get lower seeds, fail to make it deep into the tournament, aren't winning the SEC regularly, and are no longer a team that is feared in basketball by other schools, Cal needs to be gone.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:29 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I have wondered the same. I think a 3 year run of not winning the SEC will do it. Other than that, I don't see where UK would go to improve, so they will stick with Cal.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:48 pm to autodd03
The SEC is exponentially better today (as a whole) than in previous years. I would think UK would be more worried about postseason results rather than winning the SEC ala Bama in football.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 12:53 pm to SummerOfGeorge
It's frustrating with the talent he has had, that he doesn't have at least 2, and more reasonably 4 at this point.
I love Cal overall, but I do think with the talent he has had, he could have done better to this point. No question it's tough to win a title, but no one has had more talent in the last 8 years than Kentucky.
I love Cal overall, but I do think with the talent he has had, he could have done better to this point. No question it's tough to win a title, but no one has had more talent in the last 8 years than Kentucky.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 1:03 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Cal is fine. It's college basketball that sucks right now. I hate the one-and-done era. Cal does, too, but he has to make the most of the situation. I think he's doing a fantastic job.
UK and Duke are harvesting the best of the best one-and-doners and both programs are having good results and bad results. There are more than enough 5* players for them to share.
Duke is having the same problems UK is with them, unpredictability. It's impossible to know how a bunch of 5*s will play together. 2012 was the best team UK has ever put on the floor and 2013 was one the of the worst.
This season's crop of one-and-doners seems just as unpredictable as any before them. They stomped a good Louisville team but let Florida hang around for the whole game in Rupp and lost to them. Louisville is better than Florida.
They may put it together or they may not. If they do they can make a good run in the tourney. If they don't they could be another NIT team that loses to Robert Morris.
UK and Duke are harvesting the best of the best one-and-doners and both programs are having good results and bad results. There are more than enough 5* players for them to share.
Duke is having the same problems UK is with them, unpredictability. It's impossible to know how a bunch of 5*s will play together. 2012 was the best team UK has ever put on the floor and 2013 was one the of the worst.
This season's crop of one-and-doners seems just as unpredictable as any before them. They stomped a good Louisville team but let Florida hang around for the whole game in Rupp and lost to them. Louisville is better than Florida.
They may put it together or they may not. If they do they can make a good run in the tourney. If they don't they could be another NIT team that loses to Robert Morris.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 1:07 pm to Kentucker
What’s interesting is the sticking point right now is “Duke is doing it better” for a lot of detractors but Kyle Tucker over at SEC Country brought up some good points:
The reality is Cal is doing fine.
quote:
However, it is worth noting that Kentucky and Duke have been to the same number of national championship games (two) in Calipari’s eight seasons at UK. Mike Krzyzewski won both, while Calipari won one. But in the six non-title-game years for each program in that span, UK went to four Elite Eights and two Final Fours; Duke to just one Elite Eight and no Final Fours.
The reality is Cal is doing fine.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 1:35 pm to BluegrassBelle
I'm staunchly pro-Cal and he can stay forever for all I care but past results aside, he's acting like a psycho more and more on the bench and recruiting has started on a trend that's not great.
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 1:37 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Him not having at least 2 titles is a pretty big disgrace. Massive underachieving
Posted on 1/25/18 at 1:41 pm to Pelican fan99
Watching freshman struggle can be frustrating but I also don't really start caring until March. Even the SEC tournament is completely meaningless unless you're a bubble team desperate to get into the NCAA tournament but as the NCAA committee has proved time and again it has little to no bearing on tournament seeding.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 3:55 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Who would they get that could duplicate his success at minimum?
I get Kentucky is a very good historical program. However, I don't think kids are going to Kentucky because of Kentucky. They are going because Coach Cal puts young men into the NBA. I'm sure someone will take that out of context, but that's my opinion.
I get Kentucky is a very good historical program. However, I don't think kids are going to Kentucky because of Kentucky. They are going because Coach Cal puts young men into the NBA. I'm sure someone will take that out of context, but that's my opinion.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 4:03 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
However, it is worth noting that Kentucky and Duke have been to the same number of national championship games (two) in Calipari’s eight seasons at UK. Mike Krzyzewski won both, while Calipari won one. But in the six non-title-game years for each program in that span, UK went to four Elite Eights and two Final Fours; Duke to just one Elite Eight and no Final Fours.
I think that is a fair point. Most of this is getting stirred back up again because Coach K got 1,2,3 in the class, which I'm sure all Kentucky fans know.
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 4:19 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:
Who would they get that could duplicate his success at minimum?
This, to me, is the question...who are you going to hire that you would expect to do a better job? Kentucky's Kentucky, but it's not like you're going to hire away any of the other coaches at absolute blue-bloods like Krizilonski, Self (shudder) or Williams, or that you'd even want to. Maybe if you would have canned him a few years ago and made a run at Brad Stevens, but there are a grand total of zero coaches out there in College Basketball that I would throw money at where I would expect UK to get better results year in and year out.
This isn't like football, where it's pretty much unheard of for the #5-8 team to lose to a #75-ranked team in a playoff scenario like we get when a 2 beats a 15 seed in the tournament; sometimes it's a crapshoot and all it takes is a cold shooting night to wreck your season in March.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 4:22 pm to NEMizzou
Totally agree re: who else would you get and what more can you reasonably expect. And, as has been pointed out, he's been as good as anybody consistently has for the last 10 years.
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 4:53 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Imo, this entire Kentucky/Calipari experiment with all the one-and-dones is a very interesting mentality. It's obviously successful to a degree. It seems to me that the priorities are arranged a little differently under this scenario. First, talent is basically a given, so early season combos need to be looked at to determine what the team's identity should be. Once it's determined what that identity's going to be (3-pt shooting, running, banging it inside the paint, etc.), then the repetition should take over. It always seems to be a race to see if the phenoms can jell and become a coherent unit before tournament time. The one thing you can almost always count on is that Kentucky is gonna be a helluva lot better at the end of the year that a the beginning.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 6:11 pm to SummerOfGeorge
The one and done paradigm does not allow for long term success. Lack of team cohesiveness, established leadership and the new adage of "there is no "I" in team but there's is a "ME" won't bring but the once in every 7 years crown. I do think that with some of the players that Cal has had in the recent past, there a few coaches in the SEC that could have gotten another national championship with the those players. Be frustrated Kentucky fan, at this point you wouldn't seem unreasonable. I'll be in my bunk.
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 6:40 pm to rockiee
quote:K went out and hired better bagmen. This won't stand. Look for Cal to shake up the staff in the offseason.
I think that is a fair point. Most of this is getting stirred back up again because Coach K got 1,2,3 in the class, which I'm sure all Kentucky fans know
This post was edited on 1/25/18 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 1/25/18 at 8:46 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
It's frustrating with the talent he has had, that he doesn't have at least 2, and more reasonably 4 at this point.
:kige:
2012 is more the anomaly than the rule and most of that was having a real team player like Anthony Davis. As to the Pro and Cons of Cal
As a coach:
Pro : pre game prep
Pro : rectruiting
Con : in game corrections
As a program:
Con : focus on individuals over team
Con : crappy home games
Con : best games no longer home and home
Con : moving from average fans to just top 5 to 10 donors
Viewed another way
Rupp
80.00% || 4-1 in NC games
0 NIT's in roughly 20 years (after NIT was replaced by NCAA for champion)
Hall
50.00% || 1-1 in NC games
2 NIT's (tho 1 was champion) in 13 seasons
Sutton
00.00% || 0-0 in NC games
0 NIT's in 4 seasons
Pitino
50.00% || 1-1 in NC games
0 NIT's in 8 seasons (2 of which they were ineligible for postseason)
Smith
100.0% || 1-0 in NC games
0 NIT's in 10 seasons
Gillispie
00.00% || 0-0 in NC games
1 NIT in 2 seasons
Calipari
50.00% || 1-1 in NC games
1 NIT in 9 seasons (and first round loss at that)
If he falls below 50% in NC games
If he makes his 2nd NIT (and does not win it all)
His seat starts to warm up. As someone posted above if you have the #1 or #2 recruiting class every year you really need to have 0 NIT appearances and a Final Four every other year. Bigger issue is playing such a soft home schedule with less holiday games is causing ticket sales to fall sharply. In the end, if you are not bringing in the dollars to pay the top salary without top salary games and results, the money pipeline dries up. College is not the pros and to build fans they need to stay more than a year.
Posted on 1/25/18 at 8:58 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I honestly can’t believe it’s been 9 years already. Man, where has the time gone?
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