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re: Question on Holtz for Arkansas fans
Posted on 6/25/26 at 5:55 pm to lewis and herschel
Posted on 6/25/26 at 5:55 pm to lewis and herschel
Arkansas BOT are intellectually corrupt
have been since mid 2000's
have been since mid 2000's
2
Posted on 6/25/26 at 6:09 pm to State Bird
Apparently further back than that..... Nebraska ish arrogance.
Posted on 6/25/26 at 7:06 pm to VFL67
Eddie Sutton said I would crawl to Kentucky.
Posted on 6/25/26 at 8:03 pm to CaptainCrash
quote:
Johnson was barely over .500 (29-25) in four seasons at Okie State in a league that was similar to the SWC…
I don’t believe I said Johnson would have had great success at Arkansas. I don’t believe he would have. I said his hiring would have been an interesting “domino effect” considering his tenures in Miami and Dallas - and Holtz at ND.
There’s a good chance Johnson never would have won shite in college or pro if things hadn’t worked out exactly as they did with him sliding into Schnelllenberger’s seat in 1984.
Posted on 6/25/26 at 8:16 pm to Globetrotter747
I doubt he would have done better than Holtz who in my opinion is a better coach.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 5:28 am to dchog
quote:
I doubt he would have done better than Holtz who in my opinion is a better coach.
Maybe or maybe not. Success at Arkansas wasn’t my point. It was how the coaching carousel and the success of certain teams and coaches might have changed in the ‘80s and ‘90s if Johnson had been hired as HC at Arkansas in 1977.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 6:02 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
Maybe or maybe not. Success at Arkansas wasn’t my point. It was how the coaching carousel and the success of certain teams and coaches might have changed in the ‘80s and ‘90s if Johnson had been hired as HC at Arkansas in 1977.
As someone had mentioned earlier in the thread, Holtz didn't respect Arkansas High School coaches and did not focus on Arkansas high school kids.. IMO, Johnson would have been a much better hire just on recruiting ability alone, especially Arkansas and Texas.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 7:51 am to BroomfieldReb
quote:
As someone had mentioned earlier in the thread, Holtz didn't respect Arkansas High School coaches and did not focus on Arkansas high school kids.. IMO, Johnson would have been a much better hire just on recruiting ability alone, especially Arkansas and Texas.
That doesn’t really relate to my point.
Let’s assume for a moment that the Howard Schnellenberger era at Miami plays out the exact same way with Johnson at Arkansas from 1977-1983 instead of being at Pitt and OSU. There’s no butterfly effect somewhere that causes a change. In that scenario, does Johnson still end up in Miami in 1984 and inherit young standouts like Vinny Testaverde, Alonzo Highsmith, and Jerome Brown? And if that doesn’t happen, does Johnson have the resume for Jones to hire him with the Cowboys in 1989?
In my opinion, if Johnson doesn’t go to Miami in 1984 under the circumstances that he did he probably doesn’t win a national title in his career and almost certainly doesn’t win a Super Bowl.
Some coaches are better than others, but when it comes to “success” in coaching, there’s often a lot of “right place, right time” involved. Circumstances that you can’t just duplicate anywhere at any time.
There are a lot of Hall of Fame coaches and forgettable coaches who may have switched places if the stars had aligned a little differently.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 9:39 am to dchog
quote:
Eddie Sutton said I would crawl to Kentucky.
I think part of the problem with both Sutton and Holtz was that Broyles had a huge ego... and he was one of the few athletic directors out there who was bigger than any coach out there (because of his own success as a coach).
We in Oklahoma heard from people who knew Sutton (he was an Oklahoma State grad) that it was really tough to work for Frank Broyles because of his ego, his shadow, and the fact that he was a bit heavy handed in his dealings with his coaches. Broyles demanded elite levels of success from his coaches no matter what the sport... and he usually got it. But he put a lot of pressure on them.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 12:29 pm to Gunga Din
Eddie Sutton was an alcoholic and it affected his coaching.
Broyles offered to help him but he refused.
Broyles offered to help him but he refused.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 12:32 pm to BroomfieldReb
He was linked to Jesse Helms.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 1:08 pm to VFL67
Yep, a national treasure and a national disgrace.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 2:03 pm to dchog
quote:
One highly recruited player that left was Keith Jackson for Oklahoma.
A few others:
Leslie O'Neil-OK State
Mark Hudson-OU
Joel Porter-Baylor
Bill Smith-Ole Miss
Doug Rice-SMU
Danny Bradley-OU
This post was edited on 6/27/26 at 8:02 am
Posted on 6/26/26 at 3:13 pm to Gunga Din
quote:and look where we are now..
Broyles demanded elite levels of success from his coaches no matter what the sport... and he usually got it. But he put a lot of pressure on them.
I’d sell my left testicle for Broyles to be back in charge
This post was edited on 6/26/26 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 6/26/26 at 3:30 pm to Arksulli
quote:
What sealed the deal, however, was campaigning for Jesse Helms
This was the dealbreaker. It put Frank in a no-win situation.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 3:34 pm to JeffLebowski
As to the Helms thing, why did Arkansas have such a problem with it when Minnesota and Notre Dame didn't?
Posted on 6/26/26 at 4:13 pm to New Money
quote:
As to the Helms thing, why did Arkansas have such a problem with it when Minnesota and Notre Dame didn't?
Because Holtz didn't tape campaign commercials for Helms in his coach's office when he was at Minnesota and Notre Dame.
Both schools, however, did get the lovely parting gift of being hit with sanctions for violating player benefits and recruiting standards after Holtz left due to actions that happened under his watch.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 5:13 pm to dchog
quote:
Eddie Sutton was an alcoholic and it affected his coaching.
Broyles offered to help him but he refused.
Yes, we all knew Eddie was an alcoholic... but so was Bear Bryant... and a whole bunch of other coaches from those days.
He was a functional alcoholic for most of his career... and then he got to Oklahoma State and he became an all day drinker... got caught pissing on a grade school and then had a car wreck... which got him finally fired.
When he was at Arkansas... I doubt think he was that far developed into his disease and probably didn't think he had a problem yet. And at that time rehab and counseling were pretty new.
But being an "alcoholic" back in the 1970s and '80s was still associated with people who couldn't hold a job and were in the gutter and the like.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 6:23 pm to scrybe
Arkansas had a really solid football program at one time.
Posted on 6/26/26 at 6:54 pm to Arksulli
quote:
Because Holtz didn't tape campaign commercials for Helms in his coach's office when he was at Minnesota and Notre Dame.
Yes, but he did make the commercials, and the argument was that it offended black players.
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