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re: NCAA Can't Legally Punish Schools For NIL Deals During Recruiting Process
Posted on 2/9/24 at 7:46 am to Smokeys Howl
Posted on 2/9/24 at 7:46 am to Smokeys Howl
This may be the final nail in Tennessee’s coffin.
2
Posted on 2/9/24 at 8:03 am to Smokeys Howl
quote:
Anything the NCAA does which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
Ignoring that this isn’t a final ruling and there are appeals etc. I have a question for you Smokey: why is this something you are so excited about?
Is it just so Nico can play? He’s really good but that’s no guarantee of team success. Or is it that you think this new paradigm will help Tennessee exclusively, or something else?
The reason I ask is that most sports leagues operate as allowed monopolies, and if we’re are heading to some version of pro CFB, which I think is problematic, the same will likely apply. That means there will be a regulator, ncaa or otherwise, that will have a bunch of rules in place, just like the nfl.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 8:38 am to Smokeys Howl
quote:
NCAA Can't Legally Punish Schools For NIL Deals During Recruiting Process
so you didn't even read the sentence highlighted in your picture?
the case hasn't even happened yet.
that's one judge guessing at the outcome of a case that he's not even involved with.
you may want to wait until the case actually happens and you see a ruling before tearing down the goalposts.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 8:58 am to Smokeys Howl
None of that changes the fact that a UT booster is prohibited from flying a recruit to Knoxville on a private jet for an unofficial visit. You can argue that they flew him down to negotiate his NIL deal, but the purpose of the trip was clearly two fold. Negotiating an NIL deal during the recruiting process as a whole is a separate issue.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 10:38 am to Lucado
quote:
None of that changes the fact that...
Anything the NCAA does which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
Any rule, policy or bylaw that the NCAA has which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
Get that through your thick skull.
quote:
I have a question for you Smokey: why is this something you are so excited about?
For decades we gave seen the 'favorites' of any given year get all the calls, get all the breaks, get all their violations ignored, all so that the powers that be get their 'dream matchup' at the end of the season and rake in 50 million instead of 45.
Most years it's the same few teams, sometimes a program here or there will reach that plateau for a couple of seasons.
But I'm tired of it. I want football to be allowed to play out without some fey from Hunstville putting his finger on the scale, all so they can have the matchup they want in the playoffs, NC game, whatever. I say if Slippery Rock or Northeastern Arizona Poly is pulling off an upset against the #1 team, let them pull it off.
If I have to choose between some Super League (that is a fair and straight up game, mind you) and what we have now with the NCAA (where it's basically the WWF and the big fish never get violations), I choose the Super League.
quote:
Is it just so Nico can play?
I've been excited for NIL to come, and for the NCAA to fkoff, long before we ever signed Nico.
But I am VERY EXCITED to see where Nico can lead us.
quote:
That means there will be a regulator, ncaa or otherwise, that will have a bunch of rules in place, just like the nfl.
True. So yeah, we might eventually have the WWF on the field (like we have with the NFL already) but at least the asshatery with targeted violations to protect the 'protected few' will be a thing of the past, along with the blatant defamation of specific players in order to keep the status quo going strong.
Two out of three ain't bad.
And one last thing:
I realize the new Super League might also play the same silly games that the NCAA plays (on field favoritism, etc.) but at least there's a chance that it won't.
With the NCAA, we already know it will.
Hope springs eternal.
This post was edited on 2/9/24 at 10:44 am
Posted on 2/9/24 at 11:39 am to Smokeys Howl
quote:
quote:
None of that changes the fact that...
Anything the NCAA does which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
Any rule, policy or bylaw that the NCAA has which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
Get that through your thick skull.
The NCAA isn't trying to inhibit Nico from receiving NIL. The NCAA is trying to prohibit UT boosters from providing improper inducements via flying him in for an unofficial visit. That is an improper recruiting inducement which has nothing to do with NIL. You can either get that through your thick skull or keep burying your head in the sand. They are entirely separate issues.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 11:42 am to Smokeys Howl
Fair enough, I don’t like uneven enforcement either and I don’t like playing favorites. But I don’t think what you are cheering on here will be any sort of panacea.
I think the gist of what you are excited about is that by saying the ncaa can’t regulate nil, it will effectively end the ncaa. From there schools would be able to compete on a level playing field because there would be no one to stop them from attracting the best players effectively via bid and there would be no uneven enforcement, as you see it, because there would be nothing to enforce.
If I am interpreting this wrong let me know. I don’t see this working out that way and really see all this as potentially creating a worse situation.
I think the gist of what you are excited about is that by saying the ncaa can’t regulate nil, it will effectively end the ncaa. From there schools would be able to compete on a level playing field because there would be no one to stop them from attracting the best players effectively via bid and there would be no uneven enforcement, as you see it, because there would be nothing to enforce.
If I am interpreting this wrong let me know. I don’t see this working out that way and really see all this as potentially creating a worse situation.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 11:57 am to Lucado
quote:
The NCAA isn't trying to inhibit Nico from receiving NIL.
lmao
Here, let me help:
inhibit
verb (used with object)
to restrain, hinder, arrest,
or check (an action, impulse, etc.).
quote:
and there would be no uneven enforcement, as you see it, because there would be nothing to enforce.
No, there will be enforcement I hope. Through some kind of collective bargaining, most likely. For example, the portal must be reigned in, without a doubt.
But the odds that the final result will be more palatable (at least to me) are better than if we stayed with the current setup. That's what I believe.
quote:
If I am interpreting this wrong let me know. I don’t see this working out that way and really see all this as potentially creating a worse situation.
No, I think you've pretty much grasped the essence of my argument.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:05 pm to Smokeys Howl
Ya don't say?
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:07 pm to Lucado
What booster flew a recruit to Knoxville?
The argument UT is making is that the collective isn't a booster and wasn't classified as such when the trip happened. The NCAA classifying a collective as a booster was done after the fact and the NCAA is now trying to retroactively apply the rule.
If a collective is now designated as a booster, then every school in the country that uses a collective is guilty. Hell, Bama has opened an NIL center ON CAMPUS next to the stadium. If we are to believe NIL collectives are boosters, why is Bama opening a booster shop next to the stadium with impunity?
LINK
I have to honestly ask, if this NCAA/UT fiasco isn't a vendetta against UT, then what is it and why aren't more schools getting punished for doing the very same thing?
The argument UT is making is that the collective isn't a booster and wasn't classified as such when the trip happened. The NCAA classifying a collective as a booster was done after the fact and the NCAA is now trying to retroactively apply the rule.
If a collective is now designated as a booster, then every school in the country that uses a collective is guilty. Hell, Bama has opened an NIL center ON CAMPUS next to the stadium. If we are to believe NIL collectives are boosters, why is Bama opening a booster shop next to the stadium with impunity?
LINK
I have to honestly ask, if this NCAA/UT fiasco isn't a vendetta against UT, then what is it and why aren't more schools getting punished for doing the very same thing?
This post was edited on 2/9/24 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:12 pm to Clawfense
quote:
What booster flew a recruit to Knoxville?
Some guy named SPYRE. He owns a dairy farm outside of Straw Plains. He's got a beer belly the size of the keg the beer was delivered in, and says GOOO GOLDARNED VAWLS every night before bed in lieu of a prayer.
And yes, there was a group of uneducated numskulls on here last night who did, in fact, think that UT's NIL collective was some guy.
This post was edited on 2/9/24 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:20 pm to Clawfense
Actions are what designated someone a booster, not the NCAA.
The NIL isn’t a “booster” because it’s an NIL, it was participating in activities that make it a “booster”.
The NIL isn’t a “booster” because it’s an NIL, it was participating in activities that make it a “booster”.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:23 pm to Smokeys Howl
Ok so here is my concern. You’ve alluded to it with collective bargaining, but in essence the outcome you are describing is a pro league.
I think that would be such a radical change to the status quo that it would result in either an unrecognizable product or a collapse of the system.
The first issue becomes, why do these schools have pro teams they are hosting. I’ve said this before, but the justification right now is that athletics is part of the education, the whole mind, body, spirit thing. The trouble is that a pro team is not an educational endeavor and thus is contrary to the schools’ mission. This is even a bigger issue for state schools as, among other problems, it may hurt their academic freedom shield against state interference.
The other big issue is the economics of the league. D1 sports in total brings in about 18billion in revenue, but that is across like 300 schools and dozens of sports. I’ll need to find it, but an ncaa report showed where that money came from and how it was spent. On the whole it is not encouraging that a separate football league is viable. Let’s assume that the schools have to split off their football programs into a separate league, which is a real possibility. We now have the issue of facilities who owns them and would there be a fee for usage. Same goes for the names and brands of the schools, presumably they will license these to the independent teams.
If that’s not enough change consider the relationship with the nfl. Will CFB only allow 4 years of play in its pro league and then players must move to the nfl? Maybe, but maybe not. Let’s say it doesn’t, now CFB is directly competing with the nfl. The nfl will not like that and may say players can come straight from high school or maybe they set up their own development league. Or maybe the nfl will set up the indecent teams as farm teams, but if that’s the case are you really going to like the team called Tennessee volunteers if all it is is the minors for the titans?
I know this is a bit doom and gloom, but I really don’t see a pro league working out. At least not in a way that we as CFB fans recognize it.
I think that would be such a radical change to the status quo that it would result in either an unrecognizable product or a collapse of the system.
The first issue becomes, why do these schools have pro teams they are hosting. I’ve said this before, but the justification right now is that athletics is part of the education, the whole mind, body, spirit thing. The trouble is that a pro team is not an educational endeavor and thus is contrary to the schools’ mission. This is even a bigger issue for state schools as, among other problems, it may hurt their academic freedom shield against state interference.
The other big issue is the economics of the league. D1 sports in total brings in about 18billion in revenue, but that is across like 300 schools and dozens of sports. I’ll need to find it, but an ncaa report showed where that money came from and how it was spent. On the whole it is not encouraging that a separate football league is viable. Let’s assume that the schools have to split off their football programs into a separate league, which is a real possibility. We now have the issue of facilities who owns them and would there be a fee for usage. Same goes for the names and brands of the schools, presumably they will license these to the independent teams.
If that’s not enough change consider the relationship with the nfl. Will CFB only allow 4 years of play in its pro league and then players must move to the nfl? Maybe, but maybe not. Let’s say it doesn’t, now CFB is directly competing with the nfl. The nfl will not like that and may say players can come straight from high school or maybe they set up their own development league. Or maybe the nfl will set up the indecent teams as farm teams, but if that’s the case are you really going to like the team called Tennessee volunteers if all it is is the minors for the titans?
I know this is a bit doom and gloom, but I really don’t see a pro league working out. At least not in a way that we as CFB fans recognize it.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:25 pm to Smokeys Howl
quote:
And yes, there was a group of uneducated numskulls on here last night who did, in fact, think that UT's NIL collective was some guy.
That was me, and no, I didn't.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:30 pm to Clawfense
quote:
I have to honestly ask, if this NCAA/UT fiasco isn't a vendetta against UT, then what is it and why aren't more schools getting punished for doing the very same thing?
Because other schools weren’t complete fricking idiots like Tennessee. Because other collectives weren’t complete fricking idiots like Spyre, who bragged in a published article that they were going to use NIL funds to recruit players, which was and still is a recruiting violation. Because the two guys that started and run Spyre are Tennessee boosters. Because they, two boosters, paid for a recruit to make an unofficial visit before he had 1) signed an NIL agreement and 2) signed with Tennessee. Because those same boosters, by their own admission; were recruiting for Tennessee, which is against the rules, has been forever, and has nothing to do with NIL. That is why.
Tennessee fans should be mad at Hunter Baddour for running his mouth and publicly admitting that they were purposely flaunting recruiting rules. It reminds me of people that get on social media and brag about committing crimes and then act outraged when the police show up.
You would think that Tennessee would have been overly cautious after the Pruitt fiasco. But obviously they decided to take a different strategy and say “frick you NCAA, we will do whatever we want.”
It will be interesting to see how that works out for them.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 12:51 pm to Lucado
Smokey refuses to recognize the Nico investigation has nothing to do with NIL. It has to do with a booster committing recruiting violations.
From NCAA.com.
Boosters can not recruit. Period. Has nothing to do with NIL. Nico did not have an NIL in place when Baddour provided him impermissible benefits. This is all about boosters throwing cash at players to get them to come to Tennessee. The same thing that has repeatedly gotten schools leveled. After the McDonald bags of cash that Tennessee is still on probation for, it will likely be ugly.
From NCAA.com.
quote:
Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:
Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.
Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever. Only institutional staff members are permitted to recruit prospective student-athletes. Generally, NCAA rules prohibit anyone else from contacting (calling, writing or in-person contact) prospects or the prospect’s relatives or guardian for recruiting purposes.
Students are still considered prospects even if they have signed a National Letter of Intent or any other financial aid agreement with a university. Boosters are not precluded from continuing established friendships with families who have prospective student-athletes. However, boosters may not encourage a prospect’s participation in university athletics or provide benefits to prospects that were not previously provided.
If a violation occurs, it may jeopardize a student-athlete’s eligibility for intercollegiate competition, jeopardize a school’s membership status with the NCAA or cause a booster to lose access to all booster benefits.
Boosters can not recruit. Period. Has nothing to do with NIL. Nico did not have an NIL in place when Baddour provided him impermissible benefits. This is all about boosters throwing cash at players to get them to come to Tennessee. The same thing that has repeatedly gotten schools leveled. After the McDonald bags of cash that Tennessee is still on probation for, it will likely be ugly.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 1:00 pm to MondayNightPavs
quote:
the outcome you are describing is a pro league.
That's a foregone conclusion. NIL is here to stay. USSC has already ruled on it.
Nothing any of us are for or against is going to change that.
quote:
The first issue becomes, why do these schools have pro teams they are hosting. I’ve said this before, but the justification right now is that athletics is part of the education, the whole mind, body, spirit thing. The trouble is that a pro team is not an educational endeavor and thus is contrary to the schools’ mission.
Yep. A lot of the smaller schools may mothball their football programs. But the big schools won't. The mighty dollar will keep them in the game.
quote:
The nfl will not like that and may say players can come straight from high school or maybe they set up their own development league.
There ya go, look at the bright side!
quote:
That was me
hahaha yeah this is one of them
quote:
Boosters can not recruit
Anything the NCAA does which inhibits a player from getting paid runs afoul of the Sherman Act.
You need to memorize that line. Print it out, tape it over your computer monitor. Let it guide you, so you don't keep making yourself look stupid and uneducated. I mean, you ARE stupid and uneducated, but at least not as many people will realize it.
This post was edited on 2/9/24 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 2/9/24 at 1:05 pm to Smokeys Howl
If I were a Tennessee fan I would probably be rooting for the complete destruction of college football too.
What will happen to this message board if college football ceases to exist? I can’t imagine it will be good for it as college football is the main driver here.
What will happen to this message board if college football ceases to exist? I can’t imagine it will be good for it as college football is the main driver here.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 1:11 pm to captdalton
They’re done. It’s over.
Posted on 2/9/24 at 1:13 pm to Clawfense
quote:.
What booster flew a recruit to Knoxville?
The collective is owned and operated, at least in part, by a group of UT boosters. No different than Phil Knight flying a recruit to Oregon on a Nike plane for an unofficial under the pretense of an NIL meeting. You don’t get to hide behind the corporate veil when it comes to NCAA infractions. If Nico had only come in for an NIL meeting without attending a pre planned unofficial visit there wouldn’t be an issue. But he didn’t.
This post was edited on 2/9/24 at 1:15 pm
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