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re: I’ve always wondered why Malzahn lost his offense after 2013
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:27 pm to ALhunter
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:27 pm to ALhunter
The defensive sub rule change was 100% the single biggest thing that slowed Gus down. In the early days he had sets of plays design to take advantage of subbing. For example:
1st down run play towards his side line, WR on near side runs deep forcing CB to run with him. After play WR steps out of bounds and new WR subs in at line of scrimmage. CB has to run back gassed.
Repeat same play on 2nd down.
3rd down pass play against CB that was picked up, WR us 15 yards open for the bomb.
Watch the film, he did this over and over again and no defense could stop it. With the sub rule change it shut down this aspect of his offensive.
If you study his old offensive, he used these kinds of gimmicks non stop and no defense could keep up.
1st down run play towards his side line, WR on near side runs deep forcing CB to run with him. After play WR steps out of bounds and new WR subs in at line of scrimmage. CB has to run back gassed.
Repeat same play on 2nd down.
3rd down pass play against CB that was picked up, WR us 15 yards open for the bomb.
Watch the film, he did this over and over again and no defense could stop it. With the sub rule change it shut down this aspect of his offensive.
If you study his old offensive, he used these kinds of gimmicks non stop and no defense could keep up.
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Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:28 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
n other words, a Mickey mouse gimmick offense like we said all along.
that wore saban out to the extent that he was a loud proponent of the rule change.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:30 pm to MrAUTigers
He didn't change the rule personally. It got exposed for being the cheap exploit that it was. And then you morons still paid him a pile of money to keep failing.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:31 pm to MrAUTigers
Malzahn also thought that, if his players executed the plays perfectly, that it didn’t matter what the defense did.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:34 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
He didn't change the rule personally.
he just bitched and cried about "player safety".
quote:
2014 — The 10-second rule
Saban wanted to slow the game down, to keep offenses from running such fast paced hurry up offenses that didn’t allow his killer defenses time to read and react. Saban wanted a 10 second rule to be implemented between plays to give his defenses time to substitute into appropriate packages as well as rest and read to play and react to it.
he got his wish on HUNH. You can read all of the rule changes because of saban here.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:36 pm to Moustache
quote:He just got too hard headed. Try too much to prove he could do something he couldn't. If he could run the ball but couldn't pass he would try to pass to prove he could and vice versa. 90% of the time it would work and then he would try to force the other and lost because it. I used to hate games we would be winning and running all over a team then come out pass heavy the 2nd half even when the run was still working.
To me it almost felt like Malzahn was trying to prove he wasn’t a gimmick and got away from what made him have some of the best offenses in the sec over his years at arky and auburn.
If he would take what the defense gives and focus on that he would still be at Auburn.
This post was edited on 11/22/22 at 6:38 pm
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:56 pm to Moustache
I would say a couple of things. Malzahn’s offense really wasn’t bad, other than I think ‘15 or ‘16, up until like 2017-18 timeframe. What happened in that period is after 2016 he lost Rhett Lashlee, who had been with him since Springdale. Gus has always been a little funny and secretive about his offense, or at least some of the specifics, and very few other people even remotely know how to run the damn thing. There is a lot of talk about how simple it is, spoiler alert, it isn’t simple at all.
With the above in mind, it was Gus’s offense. Rhett knew it well but isn’t Gus. So while Rhett may have been calling most of the plays, Gus always had override and from my understanding that was a significant benefit. After Lashlee left, you have a string of OC’s who didn’t really know his offense, which kind of hamstrings the whole benefit of having Gus’s offensive mind at the helm.
With the above in mind, it was Gus’s offense. Rhett knew it well but isn’t Gus. So while Rhett may have been calling most of the plays, Gus always had override and from my understanding that was a significant benefit. After Lashlee left, you have a string of OC’s who didn’t really know his offense, which kind of hamstrings the whole benefit of having Gus’s offensive mind at the helm.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 6:58 pm to AUCE05
quote:
Recruiting. He refused to recruit OL and QB that could run his style.
Can’t believe it took 2 pages for someone to state the facts.
He refused to recruit anyone at OL.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:14 pm to MrAUTigers
quote:
he just bitched and cried about "player safety".
Funny how it was never an issue before Gus tried to exploit the rules.
Look, I can give Gus props for finding a loophole and exploiting it. Yet after he was shown to be a complete gimmick, one trick pony all you can do is cry about Saban getting the rules changed.
How ironic and on message for a barner.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:27 pm to skirpnasty
That’s pretty interesting…and makes a lot of sense see what happened
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:49 pm to Moustache
quote:
To me it almost felt like Malzahn was trying to prove he wasn’t a gimmick
his entire fricking career
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:50 pm to MrAUTigers
good for Saban
he was right
he was right
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:53 pm to Leto II
The substitution rule and lineman downfield point of emphasis (for umpires) clearly clipped some of the magic of HUNH/RPO schemes. With Gus’ system, some of the blocking rules limiting chop blocks also hurt to a lesser degree.
You do still see the tempo influence though with teams like Tennessee whom run plays rapidly without substitutions to “trap” defensive personnel on the field for several plays at a time. Some of it is also the reality Ga Tech ran into with their flexbone offense in the 2010’s which had some devastating run based offenses but found it’s hard to recruit top QB, OL and WR to systems that won’t prepare them for the NFL.
You do still see the tempo influence though with teams like Tennessee whom run plays rapidly without substitutions to “trap” defensive personnel on the field for several plays at a time. Some of it is also the reality Ga Tech ran into with their flexbone offense in the 2010’s which had some devastating run based offenses but found it’s hard to recruit top QB, OL and WR to systems that won’t prepare them for the NFL.
Posted on 11/22/22 at 8:55 pm to Rabern57
quote:
I used to hate games we would be winning and running all over a team then come out pass heavy the 2nd half even when the run was still working.
yes my friend all Gus ego
narcissist
Gus is a fricking narcissist
Posted on 11/22/22 at 9:02 pm to SECdragonmaster
quote:
He refused to recruit anyone at OL.
Why would any coach intentionally do this?
Posted on 11/22/22 at 9:08 pm to shutterspeed
Gus could never have majored in chemical or mechanical engineering
He might could have majored in civil engineering, but he didn't
he majored in physical education
He might could have majored in civil engineering, but he didn't
he majored in physical education
Posted on 11/22/22 at 9:40 pm to Moustache
The SEC refs finally started calling illegal man downfield on Gus’ offensive linemen.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:17 am to paperwasp
quote:You’re thinking about 2015-going forward.
Johnson, et al. led to a slow pace without consistency, because they were frequently substituting personnel (which allowed defenses to do so).
Nick Marshall was Auburn’s QB in 2013 and 2014. Jeremy Johnson and Sean White shared 2015 and 2016, Jarrett Stidham in 2017 and 2018, and then Bo Nix in 2019 and 2020 for Gus.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:19 am to Moustache
quote:
I’ve always wondered why Malzahn lost his offense after 2013
Nick Saban got the rule changed to allow defenses to substitute.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 9:20 am
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:47 am to MrAUTigers
quote:
The NCAA proposed a rule change yesterday that would kill the strength of the modern hurry-up offense by giving defensive players 10 seconds to freely substitute.
DEEP SIGH - I make a detailed post explaining this and yet the most common misconception always gets rehashed. It drives me nuts that everyone thinks there was a "major" rule change but the reality is refs just stopped the fast play via procedural adjustments and defenses got better at subbing.
That PROPOSED 10 seconds substitution rule got tabled - it never happened. See this: 10 Second Substitution Rule
Here is the 2021 rule book in case people don't believe me. Show me where the defensive team gets 10 seconds to substitute and I'll eat crow.
NCAA Football Rule Book
Also, for everyone saying "rules changed where defense gets to sub if the offense does..." this goes back to before Gus. Don't take my word for it, here's a 2009 rule book.
2009 Rule Book
quote:
While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 9:49 am
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