re: How often does a great defense actually beat a great offense?

Alabama over Da U
LSU over Oklahoma
LSU over Ohio State

Depends on that great defense’s offense keeping that great defense off the field.

Still need offense to score points.


It’s a three-facet game.

yeah you’re right and that DL was dominant

Monty, Brockers, Logan and Mingo

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Defense wins championship's is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

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Lmao. Then you have never heard anything stupid before.

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While Lassic ran the ball well and their OL play was inspired, the offense was still pretty pedestrian overall (we had less than 300 yards total offense) but we did dominate time of possession with our run game...

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The offense wasn’t explosive that night, but it wasn’t a liability either. The offense did its part to win the game.

I was there. I remember it well.

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I've seen a lot of great defenses eventually look mediocre because their offensive unit keeps putting them in difficult spots every game all game. So I'd say, a great defensive football team rarely wins against a great offensive football team without a lot of balance. They may win the first half, but often get worn down.

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2025 LSU.

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2025 LSU was a good, not great defense.

We pressured the QB usually with blitzes, the D Line couldn't get home most of the time on their own.

Our linebackers were merely average. They weren't stifling in coverage (the secondary was), and way too many times they lost contain vs a mobile QB.

We played A&M in Tiger Stadium and gave up 40+.
Miami played A&M in College Station and held them to 3.
LSU's offense gained the exact same number of yards Miami did, had similar conversion percentage, and had more points and time of possession. LSU's defense broke down, while Miami's didn't.

Depends on depth and if the offense can tire out the defense by the 4Q.

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You literally cannot win if you don't score. If the two best defenses played and it ended 3-0 with one FG did the offense win? Or the defense?

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2011 says hello.

Alabama and LSU had top 20 offenses (LSU 17th, Alabama 20th) - but playing each other over 8 quarters, they combined for:

36 points
1 TD
10 FGs
20 punts

Against everyone else, they averaged 40.9 ppg (LSU) and 38.5 ppg (Alabama); that would have LSU at #9 and Alabama at #12 (demonstrating how much those games against each other dragged down their metrics).

That said, rule changes have helped offenses much more than defenses. When people ask, "2011 LSU/Alabama defense vs 2019 LSU / 2020 Alabama offense, who wins?" I just ask, "In 2011 or 2019/2020?"

So it does kind of matter WHEN you're applying the saying... though the offenses seemed to peak in 2020/2021... with transfers killing most continuity as well as making a stockpile of talent impossible, I think defense is the trump card because super elaborate offensive schemes are going to be harder and harder to install with backups constantly leaving.

They used to. When Defenses actually attacked. Tried to get off the field. See the old Stallings Alabama. Old Washington, Dallas, New York, and Philly defense.

The worst thing about the 3-4 in College has been the risk-averse coaches that run it like a base nickel. If you'll notice ... Indiana isn't playing it like that.

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The worst thing about the 3-4 in College has been the risk-averse coaches that run it like a base nickel. If you'll notice ... Indiana isn't playing it like that.

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It all depends on matchups and how things apply.

The Saints, back in the days of the Dome Patrol, ran a 3-4; it was really a 4-3 because Pat Swilling, technically a linebacker, actually rushed the QB probably over 90% of the time. it's why he had 54 sacks in a 4 yr stretch. We'd call him an "edge rusher" now, but the advantage was that he was quicker and more mobile than a DE, so he could make some plays in space if necessary. Which is why he also got 6 interceptions in the course of his career.
The Giants did the same thing, with Lawrence Taylor being a linebacker but what we'd now call "edge", the Bills with Cornelius Bennett, etc.

The problem with that is that offenses eventually schemed to defeat it. Hence the "Jon Gruden" deal; the Steelers had a suffocating 3-4 defense, and Gruden's Raiders put 50+ on them. They ran an offense that was potent, but seemed designed specifically to destroy the 3-4. Other teams also later smoked the Steelers with similar attack, and we've never really seen that defense come back (because it was common knowledge what plays would work damn near every time vs it).

But I'd still say, the 3-4 is probably the best defense against a running game. 3 massive DL, 4 big rangy LBs.