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Easy fix to fake injury timeouts

Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:27 pm
Posted by HTX Horn
Houston
Member since Jul 2021
1351 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:27 pm
And also 12 men on the field penalties like Lanning apparently did.

When less than x minutes to play (5 minutes, 3 minutes, 2 minutes?) make it a 15 yard penalty.

I bet that’ll make teams be really careful on their substitutions, etc.
Posted by kaaj24
Dallas
Member since Jan 2010
916 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:29 pm to
I think players should have to sit out at least 3 snaps before recentering game.
Posted by HTX Horn
Houston
Member since Jul 2021
1351 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:30 pm to
Yeah I like that as well.
Posted by theballguy
Huntsville Alabama
Member since Oct 2011
36126 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:31 pm to
I have a novel solution:

Allow the defense to sub.

Get back to playing real football.
Posted by nicholastiger
Member since Jan 2004
55468 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:33 pm to
the thing I don't get is Kiffin wants to run a play on offense to make it hard on your defense but on the flip side is faking injuries on defense when your offense isn't even going fast, you can't have it both ways
and he's a little punk for doing that

I think putting restrictions on how fast you can go on offense would help a lot more
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8256 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Get back to playing real football.


Like when many players played every snap and didn't sub out every 2 downs?

Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8256 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

I think putting restrictions on how fast you can go on offense would help a lot more



You're not restricting how fast an offense can go in a 4th quarter comeback situation. Why should you any other time?
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
79274 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:38 pm to
the easy fix to what lanning did is just resetting the clock to the snap for too many men on the field and giving the offense a free play like defensive off sides.

The issue with faking injuries isn’t the penalty, it’s how do you police a fake injury vs a real one and who should be doing that?

because the best fakers are the guys who lie there after a tackle and grab a hamstring, let the trainer stretch their leg, walk off the field and get a breather and come back in. because that exactly what someone with an actual cramp does.

Kiffin loves tempo so I kinda feel like he’s taking full advantage of this and pushing the limits to get something changed.
This post was edited on 10/16/24 at 3:45 pm
Posted by Bosethus68
We Call It Dat Boot
Member since May 2011
5388 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

also 12 men on the field


My first thought was what keeps the Defense from just running 13,14,15 guys out there for a 100% prevent. It’s going to get out of hand if it’s not addressed
Posted by Dotarian
Midwest
Member since Oct 2012
1700 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

When less than x minutes to play (5 minutes, 3 minutes, 2 minutes?) make it a 15 yard penalty.

I could see that for any situation that was an actual penalty.

But for injuries (fake or not)? I don't see it happening. The first time a team gets penalized for a "fake" injury only to have a player diagnosed a few days later with a serious problem nearly every university AD would be screaming to rescind the rule.

Personally, I like the "if it's an injury, then treat it like an injury" approach. If gameplay has to stop because of an injury, then the player has to sit out at least the remainder of the possession. Yeah, truly unscrupulous coaches could still get around it by sending in 3rd-string scrubs to flop - who cares if they have to then sit out? They weren't going to be playing anyway. That's why you should also give the other team the option to have the team with the injury lose a timeout.

It's the only way you could honestly and seriously address the unsportsmanlike crap that Joey Freshwater pulls on a weekly basis that would make him rethink his shady tactics (not that they helped him last Saturday LOL).
Posted by Old Sarge
Dean of Admissions, LSU
Member since Jan 2012
62922 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:40 pm to
NCAA released a statement, eliminating the ability of teams to do that anymore, the 12 men on the field at the end of the game thing

Going forward after last weekend if a team does that trick again the opposing team can get the time put back on the clock if they choose to do that
Posted by Old Sarge
Dean of Admissions, LSU
Member since Jan 2012
62922 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC 2024 NCAA FOOTBALL PLAY INTERPRETATIONS BULLETIN NO. 4 End of Half / End of Game Team B Substitution Fouls Rule 3-5-3-b Questions have been raised concerning end of half / end of game situations when the defense has more than 11 players participate in a down. There are scenarios where the defense could potentially gain a clock advantage by having more than 11 players on the field actively participating in a play. This action violates a guiding principle in our football playing rules, that there should be no profit when a team fouls. Leveraging off a current Approved Ruling (AR 9-2-3 II, included at the bottom of this document), we are introducing a new play interpretation dealing with the defense playing with more than 11 players on the field in late in the half / late in the game situations. The goal of this in season interpretation is to eliminate the clock advantage for committing a substitution foul and take away any gain for the defense if they violate the substitution rule. The new interpretation is: After the Two-Minute Timeout in either half, if the defense commits a substitution foul and 12 or more players are on the field and participate in a down, officials will penalize the defense for the foul and at the option of the offended team, reset the game clock back to the time displayed at the snap. The game clock will then restart on the next snap. If the 12th defender was attempting to exit but was still on the field at the snap and had no influence on the play, then the normal substitution penalty would be enforced with no clock adjustment. Play #1: 1/10 @ B-25. Team A snaps the ball with 12 seconds remaining on the game clock in the 4th quarter. QB A12 can find no receiver open, scrambles outside the tackle box and throws the ball away beyond the neutral zone and the play ends with 6 seconds remaining. The defense participated with 12 players on the field. RULING: Foul by Team B for a substitution infraction. The 5-yard penalty will be enforced from the previous spot. At the option of Team A, the game clock will be reset to 0:12 and will start on the snap. Play #2: 1/10 @ B-25. Team A snaps the ball with 12 seconds remaining on the game clock in the 4th quarter. QB A12 can find no receiver open, scrambles outside the tackle box and throws the ball away beyond the neutral zone and the play ends with 6 seconds remaining. The defense had 12 players on the field at the snap but B21 was hustling to get off the field and the ball was snapped just before B21 exited the field. RULING: Foul by Team B for a substitution infraction. The 5-yard penalty will be enforced from the previous spot. If B21 had no influence on the play, there would be no clock adjustment. Play #3: 1/10 @ B-25. Team A snaps the ball with 12 seconds remaining on the game clock in the 4th quarter. QB A12 can find no receiver open, scrambles outside the tackle box and runs for 10 yards and is downed inbounds and the clock is stopped with 6 seconds remaining. The defense participated with 12 players on the field. RULING: Foul by Team B for a substitution infraction. There is no requirement to accept the penalty to have the clock reset. The offense may decline the 5-yard penalty and keep the option to reset the game clock to 0:12 and have the game clock start on the next snap. Approved Ruling 9-2-3 II Team A, trailing by nine points, has 1st-and-10 on the B-22 with 0:35 showing on the game clock. At the snap, B21, B40 and B44 blatantly hold, wrapping both arms around Team A's wideouts and take them to the ground. Quarterback A12 has no receiver in the route, scrambles and then legally throws the ball away. After the play, the game clock reads 0:26. The back judge, field judge and side judge have a flag down for Team B holding on each of their keys. RULING: This is a blatant and obvious unfair act designed to take time off the clock. The referee will convert the holding fouls to an unsportsmanlike conduct fouls. Penalize half the distance to the goal. Team A will have 1st and 10 at the B-11. The game clock is reset to 0:35 and starts on the next snap. B21, B40 and B44 each have one unsportsmanlike foul counter. Steve Shaw CFO National Coordinator of Football Officials Secretary-Rules Editor, NCAA Football Rules Committee October 2024
Posted by Old Sarge
Dean of Admissions, LSU
Member since Jan 2012
62922 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

My first thought was what keeps the Defense from just running 13,14,15 guys out there for a 100% prevent. It’s going to get out of hand if it’s not addressed



NCAA reacted already and closed the loophole
Posted by lewis and herschel
Member since Nov 2009
16534 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:44 pm to
Yep, don't let the offense line up until 12 seconds before the play clock runs out.
Posted by LSUgrad88
Member since Jun 2009
8999 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:45 pm to
So you want officials (who already butcher most games as it is) having to now determine if an injury is "real" or "fake" and have that determination decide a key football game? Do you really want this? Be careful what you ask for.
Posted by harmonics
Mars Hotel
Member since Jan 2010
19148 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:46 pm to
What was the 12 men on a field thing that Lanning did? I missed that one.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8256 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:54 pm to
Basically 12 men allowed him to better defend the play, and he was fine taking the penalty because there was like 10 seconds left and they needed more than 5 yards. Think he spent 5 yards for 4 seconds off the clock, and it was still out of field goal range for Ohio St.
Posted by Lolathon234
Rio
Member since Oct 2022
1351 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:56 pm to
The fix would be the only way the player can reenter is change of possession or their own team taking a timeout
Posted by Opry
Member since Oct 2023
5581 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:58 pm to
This whole "hurry up" offense was started by coaches who tried to force the game into such a hurry situation that the refs couldn't keep up with what was going on so the offense could cheat. These hurry up coaches didn't think they could beat teams straight up so they got real gimmicky as a loop hole. Once that loop hole was stopped, most their advantage was stopped. Thats why Malzahn offenses got shut down.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora
Member since Sep 2012
74921 posts
Posted on 10/16/24 at 4:08 pm to
Any proposal to have refs decide whether an injury is real or fake is a nonstarter and will never happen.

If you want to talk about the SEC office reviewing it later and handing out a fine to the school for blatant stuff, I'm open to it but it's not a deterrent. If the fake injury helps win a game, it's worth the $100,000 fine.

The only realistic solution is a procedural rule change. If one of your players gets hurt and play must stop, they must sit out the series, unless you still have a timeout and want to trade that timeout for that player coming back in earlier than that.
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