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re: Does the number of championships make one program more “elite” than others?
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:23 pm to NYCAuburn
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:23 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
Probably should use a better example. Oregon football pretty much started in the late 90s
Actually I think they are the perfect comparison considering the context. The are a program without a long history of winning championships or pulling in highly ranked classes but we all know how their program has blown up over the last 15 years or so. They have an ultra shiny modern Nike-centric program that is very appealing to recruits and they have taken huge steps on the field.
So if you are top recruit does it matter more what the program has accomplished or what is on the horizon and what you could be a part of. Winning the first championship is a doozy and frankly, I’m surprised that Oregon hasn’t put together more stacked classes consistently, considering what they offer as a program. Would be cool to be a part of the first Oregon team to win it all. Would be a big deal to me if I was from that part of the country.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:24 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Florida didn't even field a team in 1943
quote:
During the World War II years of 1942 to 1945, most of the university's able-bodied students withdrew and enlisted in the U.S. military.
quote:
The Bulldogs, on the other hand, still had many veteran players thanks to the draft deferments of the players who were enrolled in the University of Georgia's ROTC program
Florida did not field a team in 1943 due to the lack of available players, for the first and only autumn since the modern University of Florida opened its Gainesville campus in 1906. Florida was one of seven Southeastern Conference schools that did not field a squad during the 1943 season.[119] The 1945 backfield was made up entirely of freshmen.[95] During the war, Tiger Mayberry's fighter plane was shot down over the Pacific and he died in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp; Fergie Ferguson was seriously wounded leading an infantry assault during the D-Day landings in France and died from complications of his injuries ten years later.[120]
Yeah, most Georgia pussies wouldn't know anything about dying on hills since they stayed to play football instead.
Rawl Dawgs.
1942 National Title was only won because the rest of the country was fighting.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:27 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
Georgia was named national champion by NCAA-designated major selectors of Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess), and Williamson
most of these were retroactive
Dude. there were no National Championship games back then. ALL of them were retroactive.
You've been hanging out with Korin way too long.
ETA
Look, I get it, but if you want to find problems then address the 1957 National Championship Auburn claims while they were on probation for paying players. Auburn was not even allowed to play in a bowl game because they were on probation. I mean, it works both ways.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:27 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Personally, I don’t really care much about football in the 40s. Anything that I haven’t been alive for isn’t really relevant to me as a fan.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy reflecting on the history of the program, but the game was so fundamentally different at that time that I don’t really get much value out of comparing records from that era.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy reflecting on the history of the program, but the game was so fundamentally different at that time that I don’t really get much value out of comparing records from that era.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:28 pm to AshleySchaeffer
TBH, anything pre-integration is sort of irrelevant.
With that out of the way, I do not think Nattys are the sole driver of what makes a program elite or not. I don't think anyone who isn't Mormon would try to claim BYU is more elite than Mississippi State right now because of their 1984 Natty. Is BYU more elite than UGA? LOL, no.
It only really matters what a program has done in the last 16-18 years. 1998 might as well be 1968 to a kid Tennessee is trying to recruit. The Fun-n-Gun days of Florida have no bearing on a talented athlete trying to determine where to play after high school.
Facilities, which to Oregon's credit was one of the first to start having player focused facility upgrades, are physical evidence of what a school and its fans are willing to invest to reach and sustain success.
Conference championships and non-CFP bowl appearances/wins will mean less and less going forward unless there is a CFP expansion and conference champs get automatic bids.
With that out of the way, I do not think Nattys are the sole driver of what makes a program elite or not. I don't think anyone who isn't Mormon would try to claim BYU is more elite than Mississippi State right now because of their 1984 Natty. Is BYU more elite than UGA? LOL, no.
It only really matters what a program has done in the last 16-18 years. 1998 might as well be 1968 to a kid Tennessee is trying to recruit. The Fun-n-Gun days of Florida have no bearing on a talented athlete trying to determine where to play after high school.
Facilities, which to Oregon's credit was one of the first to start having player focused facility upgrades, are physical evidence of what a school and its fans are willing to invest to reach and sustain success.
Conference championships and non-CFP bowl appearances/wins will mean less and less going forward unless there is a CFP expansion and conference champs get automatic bids.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:30 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Dude. there were no National Championship games back then.
I never said there was, there were better selectors that people used
quote:yeah, no.... The AP was not retroactive
ALL of them were retroactive
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:31 pm to AshleySchaeffer
If we were counting championships, obviously Georgia would not be in the elite category.
But, if you don't think they're elite, you're wrong.
But, if you don't think they're elite, you're wrong.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:31 pm to NYCAuburn
Georgia fans have literally had such a National Title drought that they don't even know how they won their own.
In their defense that was a long time ago.
In their defense that was a long time ago.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:33 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I have no issue with them claiming two. But to say both are "legit", come on....
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:34 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Florida didn't even field a team in 1943
quote:
Hilariously, 1942 is the year that the entire country was fighting a war except for Georgia, who managed to get draft deferments.
What do these two statements have to do with each other though...
You played in 1942, as did the rest of the country... What happened in 1943 is independent of what happened 1942... I know you're strawtistic, but this shouldn't require a huge cognitive leap forward for you.
quote:
Yeah, most Georgia pussies wouldn't know anything about dying on hills since they stayed to play football instead.
Oof... you just look fricking stupid when you say stuff like this.
The co-captain of the 1942 team was Walter "Chief" Ruark (on the right)
quote:
In Belgium near the Hürtgen Forest on November 24, 1944, Ruark volunteered to lead a patrol to engage German snipers who were inflicting casualties on American soldiers in the area. Taking the lead of the patrol so as to not expose his men needlessly to danger, Ruark was killed by one of the snipers he and his men were tasked with eliminating. For his selflessness and bravery, he was awarded the Silver Star. His death at the age of 26 left his wife, Hazel Bracket Ruark, a University of Georgia student, a widow. Their daughter, Pat, was born after ‘Chief’ had gone off to war and never met her father.
Major Henry Elrod played one year at UGA...
quote:
After all of VMA-211’s planes had been destroyed or damaged beyond repair, Elrod organized ground troops for a defense of a stretch of Wake Island’s shoreline. He was killed in combat with Japanese troops invading the island on December 23, 1941.
For his heroism, Maj. Elrod was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor, America’s highest military honor. The award was presented to his widow on November 8, 1946.
Here was the citation for his MOH:
quote:
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while attached to Marine Fighting Squadron 211, during action against enemy Japanese land, surface and aerial units at Wake Island, 8-23 December 1941. Engaging vastly superior forces of enemy bombers and warships on 9 and 12 December, Capt. Elrod shot down two of a flight of 22 hostile planes and, executing repeated bombing and strafing runs at extremely low altitude and close range, succeeded in inflicting deadly damage upon a large Japanese vessel, thereby sinking the first major warship to be destroyed by small-caliber bombs delivered from a fighter-type aircraft. When his plane was disabled by hostile fire and no other ships were operative, Capt. Elrod assumed command of one flank of the line set up in defiance of the enemy landing and, conducting a brilliant defense, enabled his men to hold their positions and repulse intense hostile fusillades to provide covering fire for unarmed ammunition carriers. Capturing an automatic weapon during one enemy rush in force, he gave his own firearm to one of his men and fought on vigorously against the Japanese. Responsible in a large measure for the strength of his sector's gallant resistance, on 23 December, Capt. Elrod led his men with bold aggressiveness until he fell, mortally wounded. His superb skill as a pilot, daring leadership, and unswerving devotion to duty distinguished him among the defenders of Wake Island, and his valiant conduct reflects the highest credit upon himself and the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.
Literally every school could make a list of people they lost to WWII...
Trawl on though...
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:34 pm to CFFreak
Elite is a meaningless word.
If the question is, is Georgia one of the best teams in CFB in 2019? The answer is a resounding yes.
If the question is, is Georgia a historical power/elite/blue blood? Then the answer is no, because we don’t have the hardware to make the claim.
It’s more effective to view CFB in eras rather than totality.
For instance, Tennessee was a power in the 90s. They have been a joke the last ten years. Those two statements are true. To try and take the “average” of those realities and claim that they exist somewhere in the middle may be true, but it just isn’t particularly useful or meaningful.
If the question is, is Georgia one of the best teams in CFB in 2019? The answer is a resounding yes.
If the question is, is Georgia a historical power/elite/blue blood? Then the answer is no, because we don’t have the hardware to make the claim.
It’s more effective to view CFB in eras rather than totality.
For instance, Tennessee was a power in the 90s. They have been a joke the last ten years. Those two statements are true. To try and take the “average” of those realities and claim that they exist somewhere in the middle may be true, but it just isn’t particularly useful or meaningful.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:35 pm to NCDawg52
quote:
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy reflecting on the history of the program, but the game was so fundamentally different at that time that I don’t really get much value out of comparing records from that era.
And you can't compare records or players. Shoot, an OLineman in the 1940s were probably weighing in around 180-200 LBS.
However, by ignoring those teams and games you miss a lot of great players who played against players on the same level in abilities and weights, etc.
You miss out on players like Jim Thorpe, Doc Blanchard, etc.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:37 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
You played in 1942
quote:
During the World War II years of 1942 to 1945, most of the university's able-bodied students withdrew and enlisted in the U.S. military.
quote:
Having lost most upper-class players to service in World War II, the 1942 Florida Gators brought an inexperienced 3–4 squad into Jacksonville for the 1942 contest with Georgia.[9][10][34] The Bulldogs, on the other hand, still had many veteran players thanks to the draft deferments of the players who were enrolled in the University of Georgia's ROTC program, and brought a 7–0 record and No. 1 ranking to Jacksonville
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:39 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
I have no issue with them claiming two. But to say both are "legit", come on....
What makes a title legit, in your opinion?
If Ole Miss was allowed to play two years ago and only bowl banned and they went 12-0 with players they paid....should they count their title?
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:40 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
You elected to play the game... Showing up with a built in excuse is kind of a bitch move. PLENTY of programs had ROTC programs... Ga Tech kept one through the entirety of the war IIRC.
You can try to reframe it all you want, but clearly if 6 teams in the SEC all were ranked in the AP top 25, it doesn't mesh up with the statement:
Hilariously, 1942 is the year that the entire country was fighting a war except for Georgia...
Herp derp away...
You can try to reframe it all you want, but clearly if 6 teams in the SEC all were ranked in the AP top 25, it doesn't mesh up with the statement:
Hilariously, 1942 is the year that the entire country was fighting a war except for Georgia...
Herp derp away...
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:42 pm to fibonaccisquared
The vast majority of them didn't field teams in 1943. The SEC went from 12 teams to 5 the next year due to not having the players.
Georgia fielded a team but lost to Georgia Tech and put an asterisk next to the game because they felt it was unfair.
Talk about your little bitch boy pussies.
You guys were cool with it until it happened to you in 1943. So basically, you guys won your National Championship and then decided to participate in the War and when another team did to Georgia what Georgia did to other SEC teams you guys tried to remove the losses from the books.
Georgia fielded a team but lost to Georgia Tech and put an asterisk next to the game because they felt it was unfair.
Talk about your little bitch boy pussies.
quote:
After the war, Dan Magill, long-time UGA sports information director, felt that the Bulldogs teams were at an unfair competitive disadvantage against Tech in the 1943 and 1944 games and took those games off of the Georgia record books.
You guys were cool with it until it happened to you in 1943. So basically, you guys won your National Championship and then decided to participate in the War and when another team did to Georgia what Georgia did to other SEC teams you guys tried to remove the losses from the books.
This post was edited on 8/8/19 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:44 pm to AshleySchaeffer
Why wouldn't it?
These threads keep getting worse and worse...jfc...
These threads keep getting worse and worse...jfc...
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:44 pm to LBU Bama
Because some posters think regular season wins are more important.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:44 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Having lost most upper-class players to service in World War II, the 1942 Florida Gators brought an inexperienced 3–4 squad into Jacksonville for the 1942 contest with Georgia.
I just checked. The 1941 Florida team went 4-6. The 1942 team went 3-7. Seems losing all that "talent" didn't hurt Florida all that much. In 1946...after the war? Florida went 0-9.
Stop acting like Florida football took a huge hit from the war.
Posted on 8/8/19 at 3:44 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:my my my here we are again. Somehow I just knew you would find your way to this thread typing up a storm. But don’t worry little buddy, I’m putting in a good word for you.
fibonaccisquared
#prayforfibonaccisquared
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