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re: Bama fans - Question about Saban's first season
Posted on 5/6/13 at 3:04 pm to elposter
Posted on 5/6/13 at 3:04 pm to elposter
My first two years at School there allowed for a pretty easy contrast, and to objectively look at the situation.
Record wise between Shula's last season (6-7, loss in Independence Bowl) and Saban's first season (7-6, win in Independence Bowl) there wasn't much difference in loss & opponent to say there was actually much progress made; however, it was how the season and off-season recruiting played out that made for such an extraordinary difference between the two.
In 2006, Alabama absolutely blew the game against Arkansas with Leigh Tiffin's missed FG/XP fiasco, but coaching ultimately held them back as well. Being extraordinarily conservative in situations where risk was needed (not going for it on 4th and goal from the 1 at Tennessee, and similar situations against UF) were excruciating to watch, especially since both were games Alabama held a lead at somepoint in the 2nd half.
The 2006 Iron Bowl was Shula's nail in the coffin--not going for it on short distant 4ths... going for it on 4th and long with plenty of time left and only down a score? It made no sense, and it left the current players frustrated, and the recruits wary of leadership.
In 2007, Alabama was 6-2 heading into the LSU game. We had lost a heartbreaking OT game to a UGA team that finished #2 in the country. The only "bad loss" to that point was what I consider the world's worst played football game against FSU. It was 0-0 at halftime, and watching Drew Weatherford/Xavier Lee versus John Parker Wilson would make Bill Walsh roll over in his grave.
After Javier Arenas ran back a late 4th quarter punt, it looked like Alabama was going to win the west. A JPW fumble on our own 4 completed a great LSU comeback, and we never recovered that season. 3 straight losses afterwards to garbage teams like Mississippi State, ULM, and Auburn made fans wary that much progress had to be made--however, it emphasized what Saban knew was wrong with the program. He was able to turn it around and win the Independence Bowl (State fans, be jealous), and put a bow on an otherwise disappointing season.
Gone (whether burried on depth chart, or left altogether) were problematic but talented players like DJ Hall, Prince Hall, and in came a recruiting class of hard-working superstars like Julio Jones, Donta Hightower, Mark Barron, Mark Ingram, Barrett Jones, Courtney Upshaw, Damion Square, Jerrell Harris, Marcell Dareus, and Terrence Cody, who all encompassed Saban's new vision of "process" oriented success.
It wasn't so much we questioned if it would happen, rather, if Saban was going to be able to inject enough talent into the program that would buy into his system.
It is easy now for recruits to say "yeah, Saban is a hardass, but it's obvious that it gets results." When he pulled that 2008 class, he had to sell those kids on a process that had not yet been proven at Alabama. It is probably why the 2008 class will hold a special place in Alabama lore, not because they fielded a virtual all-star team, but because they are the first ones to commit to Coach Saban and his process when it wasn't popular to wear Crimson.
Record wise between Shula's last season (6-7, loss in Independence Bowl) and Saban's first season (7-6, win in Independence Bowl) there wasn't much difference in loss & opponent to say there was actually much progress made; however, it was how the season and off-season recruiting played out that made for such an extraordinary difference between the two.
In 2006, Alabama absolutely blew the game against Arkansas with Leigh Tiffin's missed FG/XP fiasco, but coaching ultimately held them back as well. Being extraordinarily conservative in situations where risk was needed (not going for it on 4th and goal from the 1 at Tennessee, and similar situations against UF) were excruciating to watch, especially since both were games Alabama held a lead at somepoint in the 2nd half.
The 2006 Iron Bowl was Shula's nail in the coffin--not going for it on short distant 4ths... going for it on 4th and long with plenty of time left and only down a score? It made no sense, and it left the current players frustrated, and the recruits wary of leadership.
In 2007, Alabama was 6-2 heading into the LSU game. We had lost a heartbreaking OT game to a UGA team that finished #2 in the country. The only "bad loss" to that point was what I consider the world's worst played football game against FSU. It was 0-0 at halftime, and watching Drew Weatherford/Xavier Lee versus John Parker Wilson would make Bill Walsh roll over in his grave.
After Javier Arenas ran back a late 4th quarter punt, it looked like Alabama was going to win the west. A JPW fumble on our own 4 completed a great LSU comeback, and we never recovered that season. 3 straight losses afterwards to garbage teams like Mississippi State, ULM, and Auburn made fans wary that much progress had to be made--however, it emphasized what Saban knew was wrong with the program. He was able to turn it around and win the Independence Bowl (State fans, be jealous), and put a bow on an otherwise disappointing season.
Gone (whether burried on depth chart, or left altogether) were problematic but talented players like DJ Hall, Prince Hall, and in came a recruiting class of hard-working superstars like Julio Jones, Donta Hightower, Mark Barron, Mark Ingram, Barrett Jones, Courtney Upshaw, Damion Square, Jerrell Harris, Marcell Dareus, and Terrence Cody, who all encompassed Saban's new vision of "process" oriented success.
It wasn't so much we questioned if it would happen, rather, if Saban was going to be able to inject enough talent into the program that would buy into his system.
It is easy now for recruits to say "yeah, Saban is a hardass, but it's obvious that it gets results." When he pulled that 2008 class, he had to sell those kids on a process that had not yet been proven at Alabama. It is probably why the 2008 class will hold a special place in Alabama lore, not because they fielded a virtual all-star team, but because they are the first ones to commit to Coach Saban and his process when it wasn't popular to wear Crimson.
This post was edited on 5/6/13 at 3:10 pm
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Posted on 5/6/13 at 3:04 pm to Oceait
quote:
Two names - DJ Hall and Jimmy Johns.
Ringleaders of a fairly big group of guys who did not buy in AT ALL to Saban's way (way too used to being coddled) and did everything they could to start a mutiny. Saban was holding that season together the whole way with spit and baling wire - something that is just possible when you're winning.
The 40-34 OT loss to LSU is what blew the whole thing wide open. At that point there was nothing to do but get the season over and to usher the malcontents out the door.
Seems to have worked out pretty well.
This was never more evident than in the ULM game. There was a HUGE culture clash and at one point, people were talking about whether or not it would be better to just purge the team of all of the guys who were creating so many problems for the team... even if it meant losing the rest of the year or letting walk-ons finish out the year.
While the team was going through their internal struggles, the boosters were going through a bit of their own drama. The spiral downward at the end of the season gave the faction of people who weren't crazy about Saban's terms for total control the ammunition to try to take back the reigns. It's why having a strong personality is so important. Had he been younger, or less successful, I don't think he would have had the ability to tell everyone who wanted to maintain their meddling ways to frick off.
Even the ULM game didn't bother me as much as it would have had someone like Shula still been in charge. It seemed like the they were finally cleaning the mold out of the basement instead of just painting over it every year with a new coat of paint.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 3:39 pm to tigerskin
quote:
This is the Rebel fan's subtle way of saying he thinks the same pattern is about to happen at Ole Miss.
It's honestly not.
Do the 2 situations have some similarities? Sure.
Do they have any type of serious connection? Not really.
I do think Freeze has us on the right track but my no means am I guzzling kerlaid and acting like we are about to go on a run like Bama's.
I do think we beat LSU this year though.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 3:43 pm to Bellabama
The textbook suspensions were killer too
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:10 pm to TreyAnastasio
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:13 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:This.. completely derailed any momentum that team had. Not that they were much better than 6-6, but this should be pointed out. And the FSU game was probably one of the worst football games I ever sat through. I think JPW threw out of bounds on 3rd down about 11 times.
The textbook suspensions were killer too
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:14 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:
The textbook suspensions were killer too
Which was bullshite. A minor violation that was treated like a major.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:19 pm to JuiceTerry
quote:
And the FSU game was probably one of the worst football games I ever sat through. I think JPW threw out of bounds on 3rd down about 11 times.
I remember that game. A group of us had made the trip over to athens to watch us get throttled by the piping-hot Bulldogs in Orgeron's last year. I can kinda remember watching the Bama-FSU game later that afternoon in those badass athletic dorms at UGA. An OM buddy of mine had a lil bro who played golf at UGA.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:42 pm to tigerskin
No it's not but it is funny that you think this. But please tell me how you don't care about Ole Piss
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:56 pm to DMagic
quote:
No it's not but it is funny that you think this. But please tell me how you don't care about Ole Piss
Show me where I said Ole Piss. Don't have such a complex.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:57 pm to tigerskin
I know you didn't say it. I did. You're the one inferring something that doesn't exist. In fact you're the only one in this thread to do so.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:57 pm to RebFeBrees
quote:
I do think we beat LSU this year though.
I don't.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 4:58 pm to DMagic
I don't expect ordinary folks to think the same as a genius. I read minds.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:03 pm to tigerskin
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:05 pm to elposter
2007 had too many DJ Hall types.
2008 had more of the Julio Jones types.
That is all.
2008 had more of the Julio Jones types.
That is all.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:08 pm to Grievous Angel
As an Aubie watching Bama that year, it was obvious things were changing. When bama got in the 4th quarter of close games, it was not obvious a loss was imminent. One started to think bama had a chance. The dear in the headlights look from the HC was no longer present on the sidelines.
Which reminds me...
I really miss Shula's 4th quarter face.
Which reminds me...
I really miss Shula's 4th quarter face.
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:09 pm to elposter
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:10 pm to RebFeBrees
Shula was something like 0-22 when entering the 4th quarter trailing during his entire tenure.
3 games into his first year Saban had a comeback win against Arkansas.
Saban was playing entirely with the same bums Shula had for years but he had them playing awesome against far superior teams, like Georgia (OT loss) and LSU (had lead on them late in the 4th quarter).
The team folded up at the first sign of adversity though, a standard Shula trait.
Saban has said pretty bluntly that the reason things turned around so dramatically after his first year was they had to get rid of all the bad attitude guys, all of the seniors and leaders on the team were beyond repair, just bad attitudes and ruined by years of being in a bad system.
The team's attitude was typified by WR Keith Brown, who was one of Bama's better players but had a horrible attitude. Following the embarassing ULM loss he was asked after the game in the locker room why the team had such a bad game, his respone "I had 8 catches for 120 yards and a TD, I didn't have a bad game."
Tells you everything you need to know about the team's attitude in that era.
3 games into his first year Saban had a comeback win against Arkansas.
Saban was playing entirely with the same bums Shula had for years but he had them playing awesome against far superior teams, like Georgia (OT loss) and LSU (had lead on them late in the 4th quarter).
The team folded up at the first sign of adversity though, a standard Shula trait.
Saban has said pretty bluntly that the reason things turned around so dramatically after his first year was they had to get rid of all the bad attitude guys, all of the seniors and leaders on the team were beyond repair, just bad attitudes and ruined by years of being in a bad system.
The team's attitude was typified by WR Keith Brown, who was one of Bama's better players but had a horrible attitude. Following the embarassing ULM loss he was asked after the game in the locker room why the team had such a bad game, his respone "I had 8 catches for 120 yards and a TD, I didn't have a bad game."
Tells you everything you need to know about the team's attitude in that era.
This post was edited on 5/6/13 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:12 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
I really miss Shula's 4th quarter face.
This face?
Posted on 5/6/13 at 5:12 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
I really miss Shula's 4th quarter face
That's not nice dammit... but I'm pretty sure that's not all you miss about Shula's time.
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