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re: Nice opinion piece on income inequality from CNN
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:04 pm to MIZ_COU
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:04 pm to MIZ_COU
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but the majority of the top 10%, of the 1%, can eat a fat one
That in the OP probably got people riled up. Income inequality isn't a good thing, however getting upset at someone whose parents left them a lot of money is dumb and isn't the american way IMO.
Income inequality needs to be fixed, but bringing down the top instead of working for everyone to have similar access and opportunity (thinking education again) only imposes a ceiling on everyone in the long run.
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Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:05 pm to Duke
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makes it terribly difficult to just pick up and move somewhere with more opportunity available
Life is hard.
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The inner cities are plagued with the results of the war on drugs.
I can't excuse people who purposely break a law and live with the results of it. No matter how bad the law is. Work to change it first.
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It's not like business is clamoring to set up shop next door to Legion Field
It's not business' obligation to risk failure, due to the overall decisions of a group/area. Businesses go where they can succeed. (smart ones, that do succeed do, anyways)
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So drug dealing is your the lowest hanging fruit to carve out a living
Or easiest. They refuse education, they refuse to attempt to work. They look for the quick buck, the easy buck.
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So then we arrest them and put felonies on their records. Makes it tougher to get a job and breaks up families
Not the laws or yours or my fault. They have themselves to blame for their poor decisions. Again, life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid - The Duke.(the real one..
) 
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:05 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
Income inequality needs to be fixed, but bringing down the top instead of working for everyone to have similar access and opportunity (thinking education again) only imposes a ceiling on everyone in the long run.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:08 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
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thinking education again
Absolutely a large part of the answer. Unfortunately, as stated earlier, the Gov't is in charge of this and it's to the point that indoctrination is more important than education now. And there is also a portion of folks, that will reject this, and end up being rewarded by Gov't entitlement programs.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:11 pm to Duke
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The rural poor are want for opportunity. Lacking education and resources makes it terribly difficult to just pick up and move somewhere with more opportunity available. The inner cities are plagued with the results of the war on drugs. It's not like business is clamoring to set up shop next door to Legion Field. So drug dealing is your the lowest hanging fruit to carve out a living. So then we arrest them and put felonies on their records. Makes it tougher to get a job and breaks up families. The result of this tied with the problems with the entitlement system have been catastrophic. I wish it was just laziness.
This pretty much sums it up. Poverty is a horribly vicious cycle that continuously breeds discouragement among those affected. I'm sure a lot of people in this thread like to believe they've earned their level of success all through hard work, but just being born to a middle class white family (yes, this probably covers MOST of you) sets you up with several advantages right off the bat. Telling the poor that, if they really wanted to better their situation, they would have bootstraps'd themselves there already, naturally comes off as very offensive.
Can some escape the cycle? Absolutely, but it's not as realistic as some in this thread believe.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:11 pm to MIZ_COU
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There is absolutely nothing I or anybody else could say that would make any of you even think about your positions. Your minds are as hard as stone
808 is exponentially smarter than you
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:15 pm to weedGOKU666
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Telling the poor that, if they really wanted to better their situation, they would have bootstraps'd themselves there already, naturally comes off as very offensive.
Telling the poor they are unable to do for themselves is more offensive. I was born middle class, but that didn't make it any easier when I started my own business. It's a service business, and I would have been at poverty level, EASILY, the first couple of yrs I was in business. I didn't apply or take one penny in gov't assistance. I tightened my belt. I did without things I had before. I sacrificed. THAT is what people are unwilling to do now.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:15 pm to Alahunter
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I can't excuse people who purposely break a law and live with the results of it. No matter how bad the law is. Work to change it first.
I can understand that POV. We really really need to fix those laws though. The consequences of this policy are destructive and expensive. That's what I'm arguing for.
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It's not business' obligation to risk failure, due to the overall decisions of a group/area. Businesses go where they can succeed. (smart ones, that do succeed do, anyways)
Certainly.
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Or easiest. They refuse education, they refuse to attempt to work. They look for the quick buck, the easy buck.
I thought easiest and lowest hanging fruit were in the same vein. It's the best opportunity for the least effort. Seems like a rational decision to me.
The education end is trickier. Our system is far from perfect and the disastrous effects of the WOD/poor incentives of welfare has helped to result in the breakdown of the nuclear family. The cultural change is certainly going to be a hard one.
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Not the laws or yours or my fault.
The law is literally the reason this is happening.
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The Duke.(the real one.. )
You are just the worst kind of person.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:16 pm to Duke
We just agreed on 3 out of 5 things. We can find compromise on the last couple.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:19 pm to Alahunter
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THAT is what people are unwilling to do now.
I'd argue that the number of truly lazy "welfare queens" that actually exist is much lower than what y'all think. I think many people in poverty would gladly make the sacrifices you did in order to secure a more stable future.
But how realistic is it for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, unsure if they'll even have a roof over their head next month, to acquire the capital to start their own business?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:20 pm to Vols&Shaft83
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808 is exponentially smarter than you
No HE'S NOT
What's an exponent?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:23 pm to weedGOKU666
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I think many people in poverty would gladly make the sacrifices you did in order to secure a more stable future.
It's pretty simple. Pick up a paper, get 2 part time jobs in addition to a full time job and knock on doors to get business.
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But how realistic is it for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, unsure if they'll even have a roof over their head next month, to acquire the capital to start their own business?
I saved for a year for the capital it took me. As a service company. I started with 3 customers. Family members. About as cold start as you can get, when requiring return service from customers. I lived paycheck to paycheck for several years getting my business going. Hardest thing I've ever done. You say it's unrealistic. I say anyone can achieve success, if they put their mind to it and their back into it. Too many don't and won't though. They take your position, that it's impossible and instead, they need to be given something.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:23 pm to Duke
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I for one am curious about those ideas.
The central idea to began to be formed after reading about the giving pledge and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and then was finally inspired by a discussion I was having with UMTigerRebel (you weren't even aware of your influence) about healthcare insurance last year. The idea is somewhat convoluted and has broader themes in my mind than simply education so forgive me if I sound disjointed but I will try to stick to the topic at hand.
As stated earlier money is power, and with the giving pledge and the foundation I had the idea of a massive amount of money concentrated in one place with the intent to serve the lower classes and eventually be owned in common by the lower classes of the world.
The foundation (in my head I call it the One World Foundation) would have a large for profit wing which would operate like any other business, however all proceeds would be passed on either to philanthropic endeavors or reinvested into the for profit wing in order to generate greater income in the following years for additional philanthropic pursuits. (Hopefully this set up means the for profit wing would be tax exempt)
These for profit operations could be either investments or actual businesses which would be able to divert a portion of their products to support the lower classes (food distributors, clothing manufacturing etc.). However education was my first thought.
My idea as a test case was for something like a manufacturing plant in an area with limited education options to be the property of the foundation. All proceeds from the plant would be used in order to fund a school. Free admission to people who qualify, reduced to some, and full admission prices to those who could afford it and wanted to attend that school. Extra proceeds from the manufacturing plant would be saved in order to buy another plant and do the same thing in another area. (something like clothing manufacturing could also divert some product to aid the surrounding community)
Sort of like the principles of a credit union applied to all industries.
ETA: What I really like about the idea is that the bigger it gets, the more efficiently it would be able to help more people in an increasing number of ways.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:27 pm to MIZ_COU
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What's an exponent?
Ask 808
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:29 pm to Vols&Shaft83
I can't. He intimidates me. He's just so smart.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:30 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
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UMTigerRebel (you weren't even aware of your influence)
Obviously not.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:31 pm to UMTigerRebel
meant to say earlier, that statement/question wasn't directed at you, but was in general. Had to leave for a bit and didn't get to say.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:32 pm to Alahunter
Ok, let's say they do manage to get the business up and running. Now, for whatever reason, it doesn't succeed (as so many small businesses manage to do). What does this person do in this scenario?
In your case, had things gotten really bad, you would have likely been able to fall back on your middle class family for support. At least until you could get back on your feet.
To be fair, maybe starting their own business was a bad example because it is likely too risky a proposition for someone who has no backup plan. What other opportunities would they have to pull themselves above the poverty line?
By the way, I'm not trying to diminish what you've accomplished. I don't doubt that you did without to get to where you are. I'm just trying to argue that the same opportunities you took advantage of to get to your position aren't always afforded to the poor.
In your case, had things gotten really bad, you would have likely been able to fall back on your middle class family for support. At least until you could get back on your feet.
To be fair, maybe starting their own business was a bad example because it is likely too risky a proposition for someone who has no backup plan. What other opportunities would they have to pull themselves above the poverty line?
By the way, I'm not trying to diminish what you've accomplished. I don't doubt that you did without to get to where you are. I'm just trying to argue that the same opportunities you took advantage of to get to your position aren't always afforded to the poor.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:33 pm to weedGOKU666
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But how realistic is it for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, unsure if they'll even have a roof over their head next month, to acquire the capital to start their own business?
there are just too damn many stories (3 on this thread alone) to just say they're anecdotal that refute that you can go from paycheck to paycheck to independently wealthy. It can be done, no matter what walk of life you are in.
There are too many Steve Jobs, President Obama, Chris Gardners, Michael Ohers, and the like to believe you can't come back from the bottom.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 4:33 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
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The foundation (in my head I call it the One World Foundation) would have a large for profit wing which would operate like any other business, however all proceeds would be passed on either to philanthropic endeavors or reinvested into the for profit wing in order to generate greater income in the following years for additional philanthropic pursuits. (Hopefully this set up means the for profit wing would be tax exempt)
I'd work there.
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Sort of like the principles of a credit union applied to all industries.
I like the idea quite a lot actually. This One World Foundation would be worthy of trying out. When are you going to start it up?
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