re: Jesus actually died on a Thursday

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For if not God, how is our universe here?

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If there's one thing the history of science has taught us it's that attributing the unknown to deities is premature.

We recognize the ignorance of our ancestors for thinking deities were responsible for things like thunder, which we now know has a purely natural cause. I suspect future generations will look back on our time and have similar thoughts regarding the common belief that a deity created the universe with humanity as its focal point.

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Tell me this: Why did the Lord create angels, watch one fall away from Him, and then the Lord creates humans. Guess what? We fail because of God's first failure...

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Ya see....that's where everybody makes their first mistake...trying to attach human mentality and their traits to the one omnipotent force.

If I were an atheist I would hope I wasn't enough of a dick to try and belittle someone else's worldview.

If I were a Christian, I wouldn't let it bother me if someone did.

I don't put myself in any boxes, man. I'm a near death experiencer. I've pursued this question of life after death for years. I know what happens, or close anyways, but it's hard to describe what it is.

All I know is that all paths are leading to the same place. Even the dark paths. Of course, being of the dark is stupid, but they'll all eventually get where everyone else is headed anyways. It'll just take a lot longer.

ETA: We have it within us to become godlike ourselves. When it says we are created in his image, that is meant to be taken literally. "Heaven" can be made for us here on Earth and we can travel among the stars, cure all disease, live forever, all of it.

Or, we may choose to move on to higher realms. And there we would be starting the entire process over. Death, rebirth, etc, reaching for realms higher still (9 of them apparently).

It's up to us how it goes. We are coded as co-creators of this reality in our very DNA and eventually physics will prove it.

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Religion was built by modern humans to offset fear of the unknown. It has historically been misused to suppress those who want to explore unknowns and find natural explanations for them.

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As I said religion is a human institution. But it is not created out of a fear of the unknown. Often religions have been used to instill certain laws and social structures. Thou shalt not kill, don't eat shell fish, caste systems, etc.
Has this sometimes had a negative impact on civilization? Yes, but that is because man often misuses power.

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We are the most sentient but not the only sentient animals. Many higher mammals display sentient characteristics, most notably elephants, dolphins and, of course, dogs.

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That is what I mean. We do not see Dolphins creating laws, nor dogs building cities. Thus man is unique in his sentience

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The last two sentences of this paragraph do not support the first two.

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It is later that I said it could be God via saying God is an entity outside of our laws. "an outer source (God) formed the universe as we now know it and is not a part of our closed universe and can operate outside of our laws. "
Thus the sentences are supported in my conclusion as God can create the matter/energy that is conserved in our universe.

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Are you asking from a metaphysical or a physical viewpoint?

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Both, as both are important. Metaphysics is part of the foundation for the scientific method as it asked the whys and sought answers which lead to physical science.

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Philosophy, and its twin religion, exist only in the minds of humans.

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Yes. Again, this is something that separates our sentience from that of other animals.

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My point is that we shouldn't separate ourselves completely from other animals simply because we're gifted with a higher intelligence.

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Not wholly no. We have similar biological processes, and are all made up of tissues.
But we are still separate in our level of sentience.

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You've now referred to the Universe as both infinite and closed. You can't have it both ways. While the question is still open in the scientific community, current observations indicate a finite Universe that's part of a bigger, maybe infinite, Multiverse.

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No I asked is the universe infinite earlier in regards to physical laws in our universe:
"By the law of conservation of mass, matter can neither be created nor destroyed in a closed system, namely our universe. It can change to energy but then the law of conservation of energy applies and it is still held constant.

So then is the universe infinite from the "beginning of time" with all the matter/energy pre-existing?"

I did not say it is infinite. As you said the question of if the universe is infinite or not has as of yet to be determined, I assume it to be closed but merely asked the question of it being infinite earlier before giving my statement.

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I admit, I can not convince you of my conclusion. [quote] Oh, you've convinced me that you have a conclusion. What you can't do is cite observations that support it.

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I cant force you to believe. Religion is something that, those who subscribe to it, would describe as spiritual in nature. You can not feel it if you do not follow it. Thus I can not say "I felt this" or "he/she felt that" so you must believe, because you have not yourself experienced it thus you wont believe as a result. That is my point here.

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This is not a debate forum, but merely a discussion board. Anyone can share whatever he chooses within the rules of the host.

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I know its a discussion forum. I am merely saying I fear this discussion is pointless for the both of us as we both clearly hold to certain viewpoints. But then it is interesting and important to hear all sides of anything and is the purpose of discussion.

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It's only when the convincing becomes coercion that I object to religion. When laws are passed that promote one religion over another or the lack of religion, then my hackles rise.

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And to that I agree. I have no desire to try to force you or others into believing something. Religion its self is based on faith. If you are forcing someone to believe, then religion has in and of its self failed.
Most people I know, regardless of if they subscribe to any religion (be it a denomination of Christianity, Buddhist, etc.) or practice no religion, tend to be good people and I wish them no ill will.

But let us not forget what is truly important on this website:





15-0 soon. tFear will be real

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Ya see....that's where everybody makes their first mistake...trying to attach human mentality and their traits to the one omnipotent force.

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What are we supposed to do, trust everyone who approaches us?

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That is what I mean. We do not see Dolphins creating laws, nor dogs building cities. Thus man is unique in his sentience

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You don't see humans running 60 MPH, flying through the air, or swimming in the deep ocean. Every animal has its strengths and weaknesses.

It's Fat Phil's voodoo. Either that or mizzou has those face plant moments more than UK.
We'll get it though, new football overlords and all that

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We recognize the ignorance of our ancestors for thinking deities were responsible for things like thunder, which we now know has a purely natural cause. I suspect future generations will look back on our time and have similar thoughts regarding the common belief that a deity created the universe with humanity as its focal point.

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Granted you make a good point with scientific advances explaining away old ideas but it still requires that one day there will be a discovery that explains still a universe that began out of nothing and came to order through chaos. Assuming of course you’re still trying to find an origin free of a creator.

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I will always assume a natural cause to everything around me (whether it's the origin of the universe or why my garbage can fell over in the middle of the night) until there's a very clear reason for me to think otherwise.

In my 40 years walking the Earth I have just never seen anything that makes me believe in God or any form of the supernatural, and most people who believe in the Christian God were raised to do so in an environment that strongly encouraged it. I have been to other parts of the world where religion is drastically different, and it's pretty obvious that in the vast majority of cases people adopt the most convenient belief system.

I also don't need religion to get through life's struggles or to be a kind, respectable person. And I can think a lot of things I would rather do on a Sunday morning than go to church.

Therefore, I'm an atheist.

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I appreciate the civility of your response. I also understand the thought process behind the influence of one’s environment on their belief system. I have a different opinion but I appreciate the discussion.