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re: Greg Sankey releases statement following meeting with SEC athletic directors
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:05 am to cave canem
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:05 am to cave canem
quote:
You dont breath in and out, cough out, or sneeze out individual virus particles, they are attached to mucus or saliva normally is too large to pass through thus they get stuck.
It is not about perfection and zero transmission, it is about a sneeze or cough not spreading out in a shotgun pattern around the room and keeping it as contained as possible, which is why mask are combined with distancing.
The particles masks are able to catch only travel about 3 feet total without a mask. It's this thing called gravity that causes it.
The particles it doesn't stop are the airborne particles that stay in the air for hours. While the heat and humidity will kill the virus rather quickly, inside a building with AC there is neither heat nor humidity inside them and it can and does linger for hours. A mask does not prevent those particles in either direction.
And hell, you can catch it in your eyeballs, so you better start wearing safety glasses if you are that worried about it.
So yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that the hottest places are getting hit the hardest even while masks are being worn.
quote:
It is not about perfection and zero transmission, it is about a sneeze or cough not spreading out in a shotgun pattern around the room and keeping it as contained as possible, which is why mask are combined with distancing.
If you aren't coughing or sneezing into your elbow you are doing it wrong.
Who the frick just open mouth coughs or sneezes on people? Nobody, yet that's what you say this is to prevent.
quote:
People need to stop letting perfect be the enemy of the best we can do. When you say mask should not be worn that means you are depending on everyone else to do the right thing and wash their hands after every cough and sneeze.
You know why they didn't recommend masks until now for any respiratory virus? Because they did more harm than good. They give people a false sense of security thinking they are protected when they are not(see above). They cause people to touch their faces much more often and they can cause/increase lung infections.
And there is no real evidence they actually help. Distancing is what helps.
quote:
Look around next time you go out and ask yourself if you can count on those around you to do so.
I haven't seen a person not wearing a mask in nearly a month. I have N95 masks even though I think they are stupid. So frick right off.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:07 am
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Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:10 am to 3down10
Ran across this video being shared on Twitter, and if you have 30 minutes or so to get the gist (or even just skip around), I'd be curious to know everyone's opinions on what is stated.
Interview With Dr. Scott W. Atlas
quote:
Scott W. Atlas, M.D. is the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University and a Member of Hoover Institution’s Working Group on Health Care Policy
Interview With Dr. Scott W. Atlas
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:13 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
The SEC has members in 11 states, and seven have 40,001 or more COVID-19 cases this year, the highest category in the CDC's database. The increase of cases in the region in the past few weeks is "not a positive factor," Sankey told Finebaum, though he said the league will analyze similar data before it reaches a final decision on the season.
The South: We need our football!
The SEC: Cool. Wear masks and show you care about reducing the Covid number.
The South: Guess we're not havin' football this year...
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:13 am to 3down10
quote:
And there is no real evidence they actually help
You are saying there is no evidence that wearing a mask helps?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:14 am to skrayper
What do masks do to lower the covid number?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:20 am to PlateJohnsonIII
quote:
There’s really no good reason to not wear a mask when possible. What kills me is it’s the people who have so much to be thankful for (family, job, house, etc) that tend to be throwing a temper tantrum over wearing a fricking mask - putting themselves, their family, and livelihood at risk. Morons.
I could go toe-to-toe with you on the mask issue, because the "mask" isn't the real reason why people oppose it...it's a matter of liberty...we vote and have a legislative process for enacting laws...we don't easily accept edicts from unelected bureaucrats, especially in the south. There are facts on both sides of the issue. But, neither side is going to convince the other. However, we all agree on one thing, we want football and are frustrated. I personally think we're dead in the water, but would love to be wrong. I miss football as much as everyone else on these boards. We can all agree on that.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:55 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:21 am to paperwasp
quote:
Ran across this video being shared on Twitter, and if you have 30 minutes or so to get the gist (or even just skip around), I'd be curious to know everyone's opinions on what is stated.
quote:
Scott W. Atlas, M.D. is the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University and a Member of Hoover Institution’s Working Group on Health Care Policy
Interview With Dr. Scott W. Atlas
Listening. Good so far. He pointed out the fatality rate for people under the age of 70 is 0.04%.
Since it's from Stanford, I think he's going to be saying much of the same things I've been saying for awhile.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:22 am to Rebel85
quote:
I could go toe-to-toe with you on the mask issue, because the "mask" isn't the real reason why people oppose it...it's a matter of liberty...we vote and have a legislative process for enacting laws...we don't easily accept edicts from unelected bureaucrats, especially in the south
I can at least understand this argument against masks even if I don't agree. The strange argument to me is the one that masks don't help.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:27 am to V Bainbridge
quote:
Regardless of your politics CNN has done plenty to destroy their reputation as a legit news source. Fox news and MSNBC aren't better. They are all entertainment "news" at this point. They all don't verify sources or attempt to be objective about what they are reporting. CNN is by far the worst at this but their entire business model is "orange man bad" at this point so whatever they get on that front they run with.
I don't disagree at all. The need to produce a profit has rendered all of them completely incapable of doing the right thing....but if you get the main point from CNN and you see the same information in 100 different places you have to decide for yourself if it is basically true or not. The same is true of all media outlets. It is incumbent upon the individual to determine what is made up and what may be nearly the truth...you can't do that if you immediately dismiss anything reported on one network simply because it doesn't jibe with your world view. Journalists have always been guilty of shoddy work and passing on disinformation and they have always been the enemy of the establishment and anyone in power. If you simply accept their shoddy work or dismiss it out of hand simply because it doesn't fit your world view they are doing exactly what you are accusing them of...spreading disinformation...you are enabling that.
I watch Fox about as often as I do any others and they are just as bad. Most of what they report does not fit my world view but I don't dismiss it out of hand because I have experienced it in the past, did some further research and discovered that what they had said was based in fact. Had I simply dismissed it because it was FOX I may have never been better informed. If you simply accept what is on FOX and dismiss what is on CNN because of the source and its relationship with your world view, and vice versa, you aren't well informed you are indoctrinated.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:29 am to rockiee
quote:
The strange argument to me is the one that masks don't help.
What is strange about it?
Non-medical grade masks don't do very much of anything.
N95 masks are the only ones that are truly effective, and even they require proper training and use at all times.
If the masks aren't worn at all times around any person that potentially has it, the wearer isn't properly trained in how to wear and manage them without touching their face, and properly change and dispose of masks after a few hours of wearing them, their usefulness goes down the drain.
Couple that with the false sense of security they give to people wearing them, and that is why there are plenty of scientists that agree that a blanket mask mandate is pointless.
For a young, non-sick person, wearing a mask is basically pointless and can actually increase their risks if the mask isn't properly handled.
It is the exact same reason that having a mandate that everyone wear gloves is dumb. Can wearing gloves help? Sure, in some situations. Same with a mask. However, if they aren't used properly and the user isn't properly trained, they can actually increase some risks.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:31 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:33 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
What is strange about it?
Non-medical grade masks don't do very much of anything.
N95 masks are the only ones that are truly effective, and even they require proper training and use at all times.
Not true, there are studies that show they are still effective and better than nothing without question.
quote:
If the masks aren't worn at all times around any person that potentially has it, the wearer isn't properly trained in how to wear and manage them without touching their face, and properly change and dispose of masks after a few hours of wearing them, their usefulness goes down the drain.
Couple that with the false sense of security they give to people wearing them, and that is why there are plenty of scientists that agree that a blanket mask mandate is pointless.
This is more of a different argument. Obviously there are correct and incorrect ways to go about using a mask and not everyone is going to use it right. My argument is a mask is effective and there are studies that can prove that.
quote:
For a young, non-sick person, wearing a mask is basically pointless and can actually increase their risks if the mask isn't properly handled.
Maybe in a vacuum but we know that isn't the way it works
quote:
It is the exact same reason that having a mandate that everyone wear gloves is dumb. Can wearing gloves help? Sure, in some situations. Same with a mask. However, if they aren't used properly and the user isn't properly trained, they can actually increase some risks.
Once again, this is a different argument than what I'm referring to
You can say masks are effective but still not support a requirement to wear one
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:35 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:35 am to paperwasp
quote:
Ran across this video being shared on Twitter, and if you have 30 minutes or so to get the gist (or even just skip around), I'd be curious to know everyone's opinions on what is stated.
quote:
Scott W. Atlas, M.D. is the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University and a Member of Hoover Institution’s Working Group on Health Care Policy
Interview With Dr. Scott W. Atlas
Oh man, so nice to see someone talking common sense. I get called an idiot for saying the same things.
Actually points out that it's a good thing all these young people are getting the virus, not a bad thing.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:37 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:46 am to rockiee
quote:
Not true, there are studies that show they are still effective and better than nothing without question.
Link? The ones I have seen show that cloth masks, which are the ones being recommended for public use, restrict less that 2% of all air flow, and were not at all effective in lessening the viral load.
Surgical and other medical masks are more effective, but the actual degree that they are effective is still up for debate.
quote:
This is more of a different argument. Obviously there are correct and incorrect ways to go about using a mask and not everyone is going to use it right. My argument is a mask is effective and there are studies that can prove that.
The arguments are one and the same though. The masks won't be used correctly. Assuming they would is just folly. If the only way a mask is effective is if it is properly used at all times without being taken off, then by the nature of the wearer, the mask won't be effective because there will always be that human error.
There is plenty of debate as to the actual efficacy of the mask, even if done properly. There are plenty of studies too that have shown face masks to have little to no impact on viral load (N95 masks obviously being held differently).
quote:
Maybe in a vacuum but we know that isn't the way it works
Actually, we know it is the way it works. Masks have been shown to hold viral particles. If someone is healthy and without symptoms, the mask can actually increase their viral load from continuously breathing in particles, if it is on the mask. Where they would normally not being getting as much of a load.
quote:
Once again, this is a different argument than what I'm referring to
You can say masks are effective but still not support a requirement to wear one
That is fine, but the "requirement" to wear them is based on the argument that they are effective. The actual degree that they are effective is very much up for debate. So, the arguments are still linked.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 11:48 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:50 am to 3down10
quote:
Actually points out that it's a good thing all these young people are getting the virus, not a bad thing.
Yep. At this point, we should be wanting it to spread. If we want to get past it, that is what needs to happen. I understand flattening the curve early on as we thought our hospitals were truly at risk. They aren't anymore. Slowing the spread at this point just means prolonging all of this. We aren't decreasing the number under the curve, we are just taking a little bit longer to get there.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:01 pm to rockiee
quote:
You can say masks are effective but still not support a requirement to wear one
Exactly my point. I actually wear one for my own reasons; it should be my choice, and mine alone. I am completely against any edict to wear it. Debate the issue, vote on it and enact legislation the normal way. I follow laws, not edicts.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:02 pm to paperwasp
quote:
paperwasp
Thanks for posting that. Very good listen.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:03 pm to rockiee
quote:
Not true, there are studies that show they are still effective and better than nothing without question.
N95 is for contamination
If worn properly, it will stop you from breathing in covid from others.
However, if you are sick and wearing a n95, it allows The release of covid. So bandana, surgical mask or the 99% wearing some cute cloth to breath it in. That’s from OSHA.
It’s simple pointing out how stupid a standard mask mandate is and not requiring a n95.
I wear a n95...but next time you’re out, see how many are truly wearing a n95 and wearing properly. Then how many are wearing a piece of cloth with nose hanging out.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:05 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Link? The ones I have seen show that cloth masks, which are the ones being recommended for public use, restrict less that 2% of all air flow, and were not at all effective in lessening the viral load.
Surgical and other medical masks are more effective, but the actual degree that they are effective is still up for debate.
Sure, there are many links inside this article to studies but also quotes two different doctors. UCSF
Here is one part of the article that they discuss different masks
quote:
The best mask is one you can wear comfortably and consistently, said Chin-Hong. N95 respirators are only necessary in medical situations such as intubation. Surgical masks are generally more protective than cloth masks, and some people find them lighter and more comfortable to wear.
The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.
“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”
quote:
The arguments are one and the same though.
Maybe you didn't see where my original quote came from in this thread but it was in reference to someone saying there is no real evidence that masks help. That is the main point I'm arguing against.
quote:
Masks have been shown to hold viral particles. If someone is healthy and without symptoms, the mask can actually increase their viral load from continuously breathing in particles, if it is on the mask. Where they would normally not being getting as much of a load.
Sorry, I took you remark a different direction. I thought you were just referring to the fact that if a young, healthy person gets covid they will be fine 99.9% of the time which I agree with, my comment was more in reference to that young person passing it on to someone else.
quote:
That is fine, but the "requirement" to wear them is based on the argument that they are effective. The actual degree that they are effective is very much up for debate. So, the arguments are still linked.
Well once again my original point was just arguing against that there is no real evidence to support wearing masks. I don't think the degree is as much as some are trying to push but not sure what you fully believe so hard for me to comment too much on that.
For anyone that actually is willing to learn more I think that link above will really help. I know some are stuck in their positions but I'm always down to learn something new and adjust my positions.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:07 pm to Rebel85
quote:
Exactly my point. I actually wear one for my own reasons; it should be my choice, and mine alone. I am completely against a requirement to wear it. Debate the issue, vote on it and enact legislation the normal way. I follow laws, not edicts.
I don't think that is unreasonable.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:11 pm to bstew3006
quote:
It’s simple pointing out how stupid a standard mask mandate is
As I said before, I can understand this logic and even support it to a degree even if I don't overall agree with every aspect to it.
quote:
I wear a n95...but next time you’re out, see how many are truly wearing a n95 and wearing properly. Then how many are wearing a piece of cloth with nose hanging out.
You don't have to tell me, I just talked to my friend the other day how almost 50% of the people dont cover their nose.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 12:26 pm
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