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What are your geographic boundaries for the South?
Posted on 11/12/19 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 11/12/19 at 3:08 pm
This is a contentious topic for all Americans. Depending on which part of the country you're in, people have different definitions of what constitutes the Southern cultural identity as well as the geographic region of the United States that is the South.
We'll begin with what the U.S. Census defines as the South. I'd like to say that I vehemently disagree with their version. It's hinged on the old school Mason-Dixon/Slave State definition of the South. Less Missouri, all of the former Slave States and Territories are included as being a part of the South. Take a look:
The above map is certainly not bound by cultural identity nor really geography. West Virginia, DC, Maryland and Delaware are not Southern at all. I think this is something we can all agree on.
Now this is where things get disputed: Of the remaining states, who should be included as Southerners?
I'll begin by eliminating Texas. Although Texas was settled by and shares plenty of ties with Southerners, it is so large and distinct that it really does have its own identity. Texans will be the first to tell you that they are known as Texans well before they are called Southerners. Texas may have been the South a century ago, but today, it's a very diverse and heavily populated state that has its own dialect and culinary scene. Therefore, Texas is not Southern.
Now that we've established that, let's move north to Oklahoma. I think most of us can agree that Oklahoma is not a Southern state. Although it has a similar background to its Texan neighbors- settled by Southerners and all- it has much more in common with the Plains and Texas than any Southern state. Conclusion: Oklahoma is not a part of the South.
This might seem counterintuitive, but let's look north and east of Oklahoma. I'm checking out the "Butternut" region of the Midwest. The Butternut region includes far southeastern Kansas, southern Missouri, southern Illinois, southern Indiana and far southern Ohio. This region of the Midwest features several cultural ties with the South as a result of proximity. However, I would argue that the vast majority of these folks would identify as Midwesterners before claiming themselves as Southerners. Additionally, what separates this region from the South is the very distinct difference in climate (continental vs. humid subtropical in the South) as well as its topographical features. The land in the Butternut region is almost completely flat, and the agriculture practiced in those states bears little in common with the croplands of the South. Having said that, I think we can cross off any parts of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio.
Alright, so what about Virginia? Thanks to the expansion of the Northeastern Megalopolis into the northern part of that state, many Virginians today have very little in common with the South. However, there is no denying that Virginia still has Southern roots. Southern "Tidewater" accents were born on the Virginia coast and spread to the rest of the South as the area became colonized by English, Scottish and Scotch-Irish settlers. And we can't neglect Virginia's importance in Southern history. So I'll compromise with Virginia: Northern VA belongs to the Northeast, but the rest of Virginia is a part of the South.
I've decided to trek back west, crossing the rugged Appalachians along the way. I eliminated West Virginia off the bat, but now I'm in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Kentucky is known for fried chicken- a very Southern dish- and its role in tobacco farming. Those are pretty darn Southern. And the people across the state of Kentucky share the same dialect as the rest of the South. The only thing holding Kentucky back is its geographic location and its climate, in which it has much more in common with the Midwest than it does with states like Mississippi and Alabama. But alas, Kentucky is still a true Southern state in my mind. I consider Kentucky to be a part of the South.
I'm traveling southwest this time to the Natural State: Welcome to Arkansas! A largely rural state, the people in Arkansas likely identify with Southerners. Unlike its western neighbor, Oklahoma, Arkansans share much more in common with the South than with Texas or the Plains. Alright, application accepted. Welcome to the South, Arkansas.
How about that French part of Louisiana? Yes, the southern half of that state. Maybe they identify as a completely different cultural region, but I think that sliver of the South is too small to be considered its own thing. Therefore, all of Louisiana belongs in the South.
And now, I've saved the best for last. Yes, Florida, I'm talking about you. If you find yourself in Florida, 1. I wish you luck and 2. the more north you travel, the more southern it gets. There are some folks in inland South Florida who would identify as Southerners, but I think the southern half of Florida is so distinct and populated enough to have officially divorced from the South. I'll do to Florida what I did to Virginia, but in the opposite direction: I'm going to circumcise the southern half of that state, but northern Florida is still a part of the South, without question. The Orlando metropolitan area is the cutoff.
If you wonder whether Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas and Tennessee are Southern or not, go get help. There's something wrong with you.
We'll begin with what the U.S. Census defines as the South. I'd like to say that I vehemently disagree with their version. It's hinged on the old school Mason-Dixon/Slave State definition of the South. Less Missouri, all of the former Slave States and Territories are included as being a part of the South. Take a look:
The above map is certainly not bound by cultural identity nor really geography. West Virginia, DC, Maryland and Delaware are not Southern at all. I think this is something we can all agree on.
Now this is where things get disputed: Of the remaining states, who should be included as Southerners?
I'll begin by eliminating Texas. Although Texas was settled by and shares plenty of ties with Southerners, it is so large and distinct that it really does have its own identity. Texans will be the first to tell you that they are known as Texans well before they are called Southerners. Texas may have been the South a century ago, but today, it's a very diverse and heavily populated state that has its own dialect and culinary scene. Therefore, Texas is not Southern.
Now that we've established that, let's move north to Oklahoma. I think most of us can agree that Oklahoma is not a Southern state. Although it has a similar background to its Texan neighbors- settled by Southerners and all- it has much more in common with the Plains and Texas than any Southern state. Conclusion: Oklahoma is not a part of the South.
This might seem counterintuitive, but let's look north and east of Oklahoma. I'm checking out the "Butternut" region of the Midwest. The Butternut region includes far southeastern Kansas, southern Missouri, southern Illinois, southern Indiana and far southern Ohio. This region of the Midwest features several cultural ties with the South as a result of proximity. However, I would argue that the vast majority of these folks would identify as Midwesterners before claiming themselves as Southerners. Additionally, what separates this region from the South is the very distinct difference in climate (continental vs. humid subtropical in the South) as well as its topographical features. The land in the Butternut region is almost completely flat, and the agriculture practiced in those states bears little in common with the croplands of the South. Having said that, I think we can cross off any parts of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio.
Alright, so what about Virginia? Thanks to the expansion of the Northeastern Megalopolis into the northern part of that state, many Virginians today have very little in common with the South. However, there is no denying that Virginia still has Southern roots. Southern "Tidewater" accents were born on the Virginia coast and spread to the rest of the South as the area became colonized by English, Scottish and Scotch-Irish settlers. And we can't neglect Virginia's importance in Southern history. So I'll compromise with Virginia: Northern VA belongs to the Northeast, but the rest of Virginia is a part of the South.
I've decided to trek back west, crossing the rugged Appalachians along the way. I eliminated West Virginia off the bat, but now I'm in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Kentucky is known for fried chicken- a very Southern dish- and its role in tobacco farming. Those are pretty darn Southern. And the people across the state of Kentucky share the same dialect as the rest of the South. The only thing holding Kentucky back is its geographic location and its climate, in which it has much more in common with the Midwest than it does with states like Mississippi and Alabama. But alas, Kentucky is still a true Southern state in my mind. I consider Kentucky to be a part of the South.
I'm traveling southwest this time to the Natural State: Welcome to Arkansas! A largely rural state, the people in Arkansas likely identify with Southerners. Unlike its western neighbor, Oklahoma, Arkansans share much more in common with the South than with Texas or the Plains. Alright, application accepted. Welcome to the South, Arkansas.
How about that French part of Louisiana? Yes, the southern half of that state. Maybe they identify as a completely different cultural region, but I think that sliver of the South is too small to be considered its own thing. Therefore, all of Louisiana belongs in the South.
And now, I've saved the best for last. Yes, Florida, I'm talking about you. If you find yourself in Florida, 1. I wish you luck and 2. the more north you travel, the more southern it gets. There are some folks in inland South Florida who would identify as Southerners, but I think the southern half of Florida is so distinct and populated enough to have officially divorced from the South. I'll do to Florida what I did to Virginia, but in the opposite direction: I'm going to circumcise the southern half of that state, but northern Florida is still a part of the South, without question. The Orlando metropolitan area is the cutoff.
If you wonder whether Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas and Tennessee are Southern or not, go get help. There's something wrong with you.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 11/12/19 at 4:06 pm to ExtraSpecial
As someone from Louisiana and Texas I will say I never considered Kentucky part of the South.... until I moved here a year ago. Most of Kentucky seems to be extremely proud to be Southern. I used to think anywhere that got consistent snow wasn’t Southern haha
Posted on 11/12/19 at 5:04 pm to ExtraSpecial
quote:
m traveling southwest this time to the Natural State: Welcome to Arkansas! A largely rural state, the people in Arkansas likely identify with Southerners. Unlike its western neighbor, Oklahoma, Arkansans share much more in common with the South than with Texas or the Plains. Alright, application accepted. Welcome to the South, Arkansas.
Yes, and no. The vast majority of the state is Southern as can be.
NW Arkansas is more Midwest/Great Plains then anything else. Its not bad, in fact NW Arkansas is a wonderful place to live, but its not really Southern any more.
Now, where I currently live, Eastern Arkansas just across from Memphis, is so Southern its almost scary.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 5:14 pm to ExtraSpecial
quote:False. I really don't give a shite.
This is a contentious topic for all Americans.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 5:15 pm to ExtraSpecial
Many of the inhabitants of southern Missouri consider themselves Southern and have closer ties to the South than the Midwest. Particularly, Southeast Missouri, including the delta and all of the Bootheel, which are much more Southern than the rest of the state.
I'd argue that a good portion of eastern and northern Texas is still the South. Maybe draw a diagonal line from Wichita Falls down to Lake Jackson and the coast.
I'd argue that a good portion of eastern and northern Texas is still the South. Maybe draw a diagonal line from Wichita Falls down to Lake Jackson and the coast.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 11/12/19 at 5:28 pm to ExtraSpecial
For me, pretty much the SEC states before the A&M and Mizzou expansion. Florida is geographically southern, but only the northern third or less is still southern, culturally. I’ve met some people from northern KY who don’t seem very southern either, but I don’t know enough about the area to rule it out. I’m sure East Texas is very southern but I kinda group Texas as an entity unto itself.
ETA I left out NC
ETA I left out NC
This post was edited on 11/13/19 at 8:07 pm
Posted on 11/12/19 at 5:48 pm to ExtraSpecial
LA, MS, AL, GA, North FL, SC, NC, TN, AR
Everyone else is a yankee
Everyone else is a yankee
Posted on 11/13/19 at 12:36 am to ExtraSpecial
Oklahoma is the bastard child of Texas and the Midwest and is in complete denial as to the fact. They genuinely think they're Southern. Bless their hearts.
The more interesting groups are Maryland/Delaware/Virginia. Historically they're Southern, sure, no question. I don't think of DC as being Southern in any realistic sense (it's its own thing but culturally closest to the Northeast), and DC, plus the increasing interconnectedness of the major Northeastern cities generally, have had significant influence on the cultural development of Maryland, Delaware, and NOVA. I think those areas have been drawn into the Northeastern orbit and that by the time I'm an old man yelling at kids for being wrong about what states are Southern, it's plausible that Virginia is a "split" state, with more densely populated coastal areas being Northeastern and the interior being more in line with the Southern tradition.
The more interesting groups are Maryland/Delaware/Virginia. Historically they're Southern, sure, no question. I don't think of DC as being Southern in any realistic sense (it's its own thing but culturally closest to the Northeast), and DC, plus the increasing interconnectedness of the major Northeastern cities generally, have had significant influence on the cultural development of Maryland, Delaware, and NOVA. I think those areas have been drawn into the Northeastern orbit and that by the time I'm an old man yelling at kids for being wrong about what states are Southern, it's plausible that Virginia is a "split" state, with more densely populated coastal areas being Northeastern and the interior being more in line with the Southern tradition.
Posted on 11/13/19 at 1:15 pm to ExtraSpecial
I'm American that is closer to the most southern point of the united states than the most northern part.
Posted on 11/13/19 at 1:45 pm to ExtraSpecial
frick this map. Texas isn't the south. I want nothing to do with the south, same as the midwest or west. Texas is Texas.
Posted on 11/13/19 at 1:55 pm to ExtraSpecial
quote:
I think we can cross off any parts of Missouri
At a bare minimum, the bootheel of Missouri is 100% Southern. You can argue the rest of the southern portion of the state/Ozarks, but the bootheel is definitely the South.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 12:47 pm to ExtraSpecial
The Southwest portion of Virginia is definitely the South. Northern VA is yankee. Coastal Virginia is southern, but not like the deep south.
Posted on 11/14/19 at 8:45 pm to ExtraSpecial
You have never been to Maryland if you say it’s not southern. The back waters of the Maryland coast are home to some of the redneckiess people you will ever meet.
Posted on 11/15/19 at 11:39 am to ExtraSpecial
If you're part of the original 11, you're Southern.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:13 pm to ExtraSpecial
Texas ain’t part of the south. frick that noise.
Posted on 11/19/19 at 8:44 am to ExtraSpecial
quote:The DelMarVa peninsula* (the land east of the Chesapeake Bay) is as Southern as Alabama.
Maryland and Delaware are not Southern at all
*DelMarVa, south of Dover Delaware
This post was edited on 11/19/19 at 8:47 am
Posted on 11/22/19 at 10:02 am to ExtraSpecial
You live in the south if you are a 3 hour drive or less from the Gulf of Mexico. That’s it.
Posted on 12/8/19 at 5:29 pm to ExtraSpecial
These days, I consider the south to have contracted. Only LA, AR, MS, AL, GA, TN, SC, FL count. frick Texas. Mostly Mexicans. Kentucky is yankee and North Carolina might as well be. frick Virginia as well.
Posted on 12/8/19 at 5:32 pm to ExtraSpecial
I would consider Oklahoma and Texas as part of the south.
Posted on 12/10/19 at 3:17 am to ExtraSpecial
Was stationed at Ft Knox in 95 and I swore that north Kentucky was not southern. I ordered a sweet tea at a waffle house and they laughed at me and proceeded to give me unsweetened tea and sugar packets.
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