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Could it really be over?
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:36 pm
I realize this is a sports talk board and there won't be a lot of serious banter, but it occurs to me that it could just be over for Arkansas.
Rebuilding from a few bad years at places like Alabama, Tennessee, or Florida is an entirely different animal than rebuilding at Arkansas. Apparently even Ole Miss is even more capable of getting back on their feet...even without hiring a name coach.
I'm actually not sure that we can 'hire a coach' and get out of this mess. Even if we did hire a coach that showed progress (and we've demonstrated we don't hire well)....another program would hire him away pretty quickly.
Frank had such a stranglehold on the program for so long that no decision making process or team was ever developed. You can rest assured that there are a few close knit power brokers at the aforementioned programs who are in firm control of decisions. All of those programs rebuilt from pretty far down in the past 20 years, which I consider modern SEC era football for Arkansas.
The perfect storm may have just hit. A 'self imposed' death penalty of sorts.
I hope my fears are wrong....but....
Rebuilding from a few bad years at places like Alabama, Tennessee, or Florida is an entirely different animal than rebuilding at Arkansas. Apparently even Ole Miss is even more capable of getting back on their feet...even without hiring a name coach.
I'm actually not sure that we can 'hire a coach' and get out of this mess. Even if we did hire a coach that showed progress (and we've demonstrated we don't hire well)....another program would hire him away pretty quickly.
Frank had such a stranglehold on the program for so long that no decision making process or team was ever developed. You can rest assured that there are a few close knit power brokers at the aforementioned programs who are in firm control of decisions. All of those programs rebuilt from pretty far down in the past 20 years, which I consider modern SEC era football for Arkansas.
The perfect storm may have just hit. A 'self imposed' death penalty of sorts.
I hope my fears are wrong....but....
8
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:49 pm to Rzrbackguy
Ole Miss still isn’t that great but it shows if you can hire really good coordinators that it can cover a lot of deficiencies from the head coach. Their DC was a PAC-12 coach of the year and their OC was a coach of the year like 5 times in different conferences.
They are better than people expected at least. Ours are trash.
They are better than people expected at least. Ours are trash.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:53 pm to Rzrbackguy
Good God. This is Tardville level stuff. We spend millions upon millions investing in the Razorback football program. Yes, we have problems with the people making decisions for our program. Yes, we have made a series of bad hires.
At some point, the money invested dries up, after a series of bad hires like we have experienced, and changes have to be made among the people who made those hires. This will happen eventually.
The fact that we are a member of the top football conference in the country only serves to magnify the problems, and compound the flaws in our system. Free market forces will either straighten our path, or destroy our football program. If they continue listening to people who make bad decisions that cost millions of dollars and results in pitiful performance, it will be the latter.
At some point, the money invested dries up, after a series of bad hires like we have experienced, and changes have to be made among the people who made those hires. This will happen eventually.
The fact that we are a member of the top football conference in the country only serves to magnify the problems, and compound the flaws in our system. Free market forces will either straighten our path, or destroy our football program. If they continue listening to people who make bad decisions that cost millions of dollars and results in pitiful performance, it will be the latter.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:07 pm to Rzrbackguy
I'll catch hell for this I'm sure, but I always felt like Arkansas was one of those programs that was caught between has been and never was. What drew me to Arkansas other than geography, was that they always kind of played the role of spoiler which is the type of program I like root for.
For a program like Arkansas to be competitive, I always thought that they'd have to be cutting edge. What they have been instead, is a program clinging desperately to the past and not preparing for the future of football. It's now caught up to them.
A team like Arkansas can't afford to make two bad hires in a row. So here we are witnessing the possible death of Razorback football.
Now, this is just my opinion or perception and it's okay if you disagree. I don't have the hubris to defend something as feeble as perception.
For a program like Arkansas to be competitive, I always thought that they'd have to be cutting edge. What they have been instead, is a program clinging desperately to the past and not preparing for the future of football. It's now caught up to them.
A team like Arkansas can't afford to make two bad hires in a row. So here we are witnessing the possible death of Razorback football.
Now, this is just my opinion or perception and it's okay if you disagree. I don't have the hubris to defend something as feeble as perception.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:24 pm to Rzrbackguy
Even with the perfect hire after Chad gets canned we are looking at probably 2023 before we could be relevant again.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:45 pm to Rzrbackguy
This is all so over the top.
Yes, we made back to back bad hires and it hurts. We are the bottom dweller of the SEC. We are deficient of talent and fundamentals. We have no identity. If we get rid of Chert and hire a coach like Briles with an offensive identity then we have a direction to build to. If we gamble and hire a coordinator like Venables then we would also have a clear direction we're moving towards.
A good coach would clean up the fundamentals and we would start seeing improvements by the end of year 1. That would translate in to wins in year 2.
The program isn't dead. It's just been in a coma since Petrino's April Fools Day ride.
Yes, we made back to back bad hires and it hurts. We are the bottom dweller of the SEC. We are deficient of talent and fundamentals. We have no identity. If we get rid of Chert and hire a coach like Briles with an offensive identity then we have a direction to build to. If we gamble and hire a coordinator like Venables then we would also have a clear direction we're moving towards.
A good coach would clean up the fundamentals and we would start seeing improvements by the end of year 1. That would translate in to wins in year 2.
The program isn't dead. It's just been in a coma since Petrino's April Fools Day ride.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:35 pm to Maytheporkbewithyou
we aren't dead, but we most definitely are on life support.
We need a major jolt to get a bit of life back into this program.
We need a major jolt to get a bit of life back into this program.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:36 pm to Maytheporkbewithyou
It's pretty simple - hire a good coach and we'll start winning again, or at least stop losing at this clip.
A program like Arkansas can't afford to hire bad coaches and expect to be competitive. Not in this conference. We'll never out talent anyone, especially now that the talent gap between mid to lower tier P5 and G5 programs has shrunk.
Hire bad coaches and we'll get bad results, which are exacerbated when you have two in succession.
Stop hiring losers, dumbasses, and betas with no fire. Stop allowing coaches to take a year off or be complacent. Stop hiring coaches with red flags.
It's as simple as that.
A program like Arkansas can't afford to hire bad coaches and expect to be competitive. Not in this conference. We'll never out talent anyone, especially now that the talent gap between mid to lower tier P5 and G5 programs has shrunk.
Hire bad coaches and we'll get bad results, which are exacerbated when you have two in succession.
Stop hiring losers, dumbasses, and betas with no fire. Stop allowing coaches to take a year off or be complacent. Stop hiring coaches with red flags.
It's as simple as that.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 3:36 pm to Rzrbackguy
We were a top 5 program a few years ago
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:04 pm to City Ham
quote:
We were a top 5 program a few years ago
We were a top 5 team a few years ago. We haven’t been a top 5 program in nearly 50 years.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:59 pm to Rzrbackguy
Bruce James said the other day that we'd be surprised how few quality coaches showed interest in our program this last search.
I assume he has some knowledge of this so I'll just have to take his word for it.
I'll support Morris and hope his recruiting leads to success.
I can see what he is trying to do and many of his plays fail due to player execution,especially at qb.The answers may already be on campus.
After his house cleaning of players from last year I'm surprised we have been competitive in any conference game.
I don't like losing any more than anyone else,but quitting on this coach isn't the answer for me.
We're going to have to except the fact that he'll get one more year,at least.
I assume he has some knowledge of this so I'll just have to take his word for it.
I'll support Morris and hope his recruiting leads to success.
I can see what he is trying to do and many of his plays fail due to player execution,especially at qb.The answers may already be on campus.
After his house cleaning of players from last year I'm surprised we have been competitive in any conference game.
I don't like losing any more than anyone else,but quitting on this coach isn't the answer for me.
We're going to have to except the fact that he'll get one more year,at least.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 6:49 pm to Clark14
quote:
After his house cleaning of players from last year I'm surprised we have been competitive in any conference game.
We aren't some directional commuter college from Wyoming. Have some pride, man.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:03 pm to Clark14
quote:
I can see what he is trying to do and many of his plays fail due to player execution,especially at qb.
Morris has had more starting QBs (5) than wins (4) during his less than 2 seasons here.
Coaching is what's holding us back.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:22 pm to Clark14
quote:
After his house cleaning of players from last year I'm surprised we have been competitive in any conference game.
He cleaned out all the cancers and player that didn't buy in..
Again Chaggie still hasn't proved he can coach in D1 ball, oh wait he has. Look as his failed D1 record.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:25 pm to Clark14
quote:
Bruce James said the other day that we'd be surprised how few quality coaches showed interest in our program this last search.
Well, if any quality coaches showed interest last search, why didn’t we hire one of them?
quote:
I can see what he is trying to do and many of his plays fail due to player execution,especially at qb.The answers may already be on campus.
Player execution is all about coaching. It is entirely Morris’ decision, who the 11 on the field are. If you’re putting guys out there that don’t execute, work them harder until they do, or find someone who will.
quote:
We're going to have to except the fact that he'll get one more year,at least.
And they’ll have to accept the fact that if they do that, they will have another year of empty seats, disgruntled fans raising hell about the dysfunctional program to anyone who will listen, and unless a miracle happens, another 3-9 season.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 9:46 pm to Rzrbackguy
Almost all programs other than the top 6-8 bluebloods rise and fall every so often, it's the nature of the game. Hell, even those top bluebloods have down streaks when they have a bad coach. We've had 2 bad coaches in a row.
Pull the final top 25 rankings for the last 25 years and see how many teams come and go from year to year, especially the bottom 15 of those rankings. Look where some of the bluebloods are right now even - Texas, FSU, Miami, and USCw.
We have everything a program like Auburn has; we may even have better facilities and definitely a bigger fanbase with statewide support. They hired a coach that got them from where Arkansas basically averages to an NC, and built esteem from there.
A good coach can keep us in the top 25 for a couple years in a row, and with that the recruits will get better. This is what happens at other programs that have good coaches, basically universally.
All it takes for Arkansas to get to 8 wins, then ups and downs from there, is the right coach. No program is ever truly "dead." Even Vandy - which is literally known for being the worst FB team in the conference historically - can manage some decent seasons with good coaching.
Let's not be too dramatic. This is a Hogville thread with decent grammar and smarter posters.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:11 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
We have everything a program like Auburn has
Not quite. Auburn is like 80 miles from Atlanta.
I have wondered many a time though, what inherent advantage does Alabama have over a school like Arkansas? I think it's mostly just tradition. I mean, they have a larger population nearby, but they have to compete with Auburn for instate guys.
Arkansas can still pull itself out of the hole, IMO. They just can't miss on another hire. $$$$. I'm sure the bean counters buttcheeks are clinched pretty tight these days and they're looking at dropping another 30,000,000 soon.
Hope they don't frick it up.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:39 pm to RazorBroncs
We don't have a bigger fanbase than Auburn lol. ATL is chock full of AU fans
Eta: but otherwise mostly good points
Eta: but otherwise mostly good points
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 10/27/19 at 11:12 pm to Mason Dixon Swine
quote:
We don't have a bigger fanbase than Auburn lol. ATL is chock full of AU fans
Eh, I'll have to disagree simply because of the size of the Auburn general area (not including ATL) vs. basically the entire state of Arkansas.
Atlanta has no loyalty or connection to a northern Alabama college team just because they're under an hour away.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 11:17 pm to RazorBroncs
Well I lived in Atlanta for a while. People joke that Auburn is in Georgia for a reason. They almost have as many fans as UGA in the northern burbs. Going by land area is not the right way to think about it. AL, GA, and the FL panhandle have a lot more people than AR and thats where Auburns fanbase is located.
ETA:
I could replace ATL and Alabama with DFW and Ark and make the same statement. AU grads go to ATL after school. But AU is way closer and the fact theyve historically had a bigger enrollment and stadium capacity should tell you which fanbase is larger.
ETA:
quote:
Atlanta has no loyalty or connection to a northern Alabama college team just because they're under an hour away.
I could replace ATL and Alabama with DFW and Ark and make the same statement. AU grads go to ATL after school. But AU is way closer and the fact theyve historically had a bigger enrollment and stadium capacity should tell you which fanbase is larger.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 11:29 pm
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