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re: Saban's comments on the defense post-South Carolina
Posted on 9/17/19 at 3:57 pm to bamameister
Posted on 9/17/19 at 3:57 pm to bamameister
quote:
And maybe that's what we see next time out @TidalSurge1. But I'm telling the truth, you don't have to be a 5th-year Phi Beta Kappa, to go get the QB. You just have to be willing to turn loose of a bunch of 4* and 5* athletic freaks. Those we have plenty of.
Reportedly, Golding was agressive as a DC prior to coming to Bama. So for now, I'll be optimitic that he'll shift the front-7 play calling in that direction -- hopefully soon.
I agree that it's better for the front-7 to play fast (read & react) and agressively instead of having to think too much about what's my job entail on this defensive play call. But they can't just be told to play see QB get QB defense either, not without getting burned a lot.
But with that said, I think we generally agree. I definitely favor a front-7 scheme that isn't too complicated, so players don't have to learn and think so much, and instead can play fast in an agressive, attacking defense aimed at disrupting blocking schemes and getting quick penetration.
I think we benefit by being more complex in the secondary -- disguising coverages, sprinkling in blitzing DBs, etc. -- but even moreso if that's combined with a simpler front-7 scheme that's agressively attacking the backfield (not "mush rush"). That appeared to be our approach when Pruitt was DC. And iirc, it was very effective.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 6:51 pm
1
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:06 pm to Commander Data
quote:
I have to disagree here. I would think it's much easier to play learn the offense minus quarterback than to learn a complicated defensive scheme like ours.
Playing defense, has, historically, required more read and react, which should be simpler. Coach Saban has always had one of the more complicated systems to learn, particularly if you have to have a working knowledge of all the concepts he teaches before you get on the field.
Coach Pruitt didn't just play faster. He simplified defensive concepts and responsibility and because of that could play faster. Coach Saban commented on that very fact and so did players like Ryan Anderson and Shaun Dion Hamilton at the time and both players and HC were very complimentary on how much coach Pruitt helped them to manage the game.
And I recall in 2017, ESPN and many more talking heads talking about all the injuries we had during the season on defense and especially at outside LBer. Most said we couldn't win the NC. We did, and we also finished #1 in total defense in the country that year.
I wonder if they saw that coming?
.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:17 pm to JB Bama
quote:
If only there was a Defensive Coordinator out there who seemed to have figured out how to slow down and disrupt the HUNH offense... and we played against him last year, and he trots out a new young aggressive defense with a gutted D-line and runs 3 safeties and brings pressure and continues to have success.
A lot of excuses going on in this thread and no accountability. Not hearing any excuses out of Venebles. We've had injuries but we have comparable or better talent to Clemson and watch what they do to Carolina this year and watch what the Aggies do to us.
I knew somebody would take the bait!
quote:
Team A:
443 yards
23 first downs
73 total plays
2 sacks
7 TFL
2 turnovers
16 points allowed
Team B:
459 yards
31 first downs
86 plays
3 sacks
7 TFL
2 turnovers
23 points allowed
Team A - Clemson's defense against us in the National Championship Game. Total master class!
Team B - Alabama's defense against South Carolina on Saturday. Total disaster!
What did these remarkably similar outputs have in common? Venebles kept everything in front of him between the 20s and gave up the dinks and dunks to later stop us in the red zone. Sound familiar?
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:18 pm to bamameister
I will say this . If we are ever going to gamble a bit and send more players, this would be the year to do it. Mainly bc you may get burned occasionally but we have an offense that can score tons of points to overcome it. I could see being more conservative if you were worried about scoring on the offensive end
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:24 pm to TidalSurge1
quote:
I hear you and agree that you want your D-Front playing fast (read & react) instead of having to think about what's my job on this defensive play call. But they can't just be told to play see QB get QB defense. You can get burned by misdirection, rpos, screens, etc. You can also get torched even on well-disguised blitzes.
For example, the QB can fake a hand off to a RB, who then sets up to pass protect and watch the LB(s) on that side. If one comes on a blitz the RB can realease catch a quick pass and have 20+ yards of wide open green grass before he gets to where the DBs are covering receivers on deeper routes. And those receivers are then trying to block the DBs so the RB can take it to the house.
Designing situational defensive looks and plays, gameplanning and playcalling are actually a pretty complex game of chess that has to be called and executed rapid fire against HUNH offenses.
Teams also add new wrinkles, variances from tendencies, etc. that you haven't seen on their film and prepared for -- e.g., pulling guards on pass plays so LBs read run instead of pass. That's a trick Mullen used effectively in his last game at MSU vs Bama.
I know I just wrote about this before I read your reply but that too was the genius of Pruitt. It's not just about rushing the QB. It's about simplifying concepts to play faster even if you're not blitzing. So that it is more read and react and being less bogged down with complicated football speak and disguises.
Listen to some of this stuff:
It was after another outstanding defensive performance in Alabama's Iron Bowl victory last Saturday that outside linebacker Ryan Anderson made an unsolicited observation.
"Coach Pruitt has simplified a lot of stuff and it allows you to go play fast," the senior said. "You don't have to think so much."
And while it's true that Alabama does look quicker, the increased velocity of its play may have as much to do with the defenders reading and reacting at an accelerated rate because they don't have to process as much information. Crimson Tide coach Nick Saban corroborated what Anderson said on Sunday, explaining that the coaching staff has streamlined the scheme.
"Well, I think that we're playing the same system," Saban said. "I think the one thing that we've done is we've repped the things that we're going to play in the games, sort of pared it down a little bit. I think our players are a little bit more confident in what they're supposed to do, the adjustments they need to make. I think they've played well because of that. It's interesting to hear that the players think that, as well. It's good to know."
"Coach Pruitt, he does a great job at simplifying things for us to make sure that when we go out there on Saturday there's not much confusion on the field and making sure everybody's on the same page," linebacker Shaun Dion Hamilton said. "So I just applaud him for being a good defensive coordinator and helping us out."
Pruitt's impact -- making more out of less -- is one of the many reasons why he's still being considered for an award that goes to the nation's best assistant coach.
LINK
Plenty going on to help a team play faster, besides blitzing.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:31 pm to DLev45
quote:
Team A - Clemson's defense against us in the National Championship Game. Total master class!
Team B - Alabama's defense against South Carolina on Saturday. Total disaster!
What did these remarkably similar outputs have in common? Venebles kept everything in front of him between the 20s and gave up the dinks and dunks to later stop us in the red zone. Sound familiar?
Did you just compare Clemson's performance against the #2 offense last year(barely #2) to a team coached by Muschamp which doesn't even have a top25 offense?
Do you really not see a huge difference between Alabama's offense and South Carolina's?
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:33 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Wrap up and tackle through
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:39 pm to JB Bama
quote:
A lot of excuses going on in this thread and no accountability. Not hearing any excuses out of Venebles. We've had injuries but we have comparable or better talent to Clemson and watch what they do to Carolina this year and watch what the Aggies do to us.
Clemson gave up 510 5/1 to Jake Bentley and South Carolina last year.
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:41 pm to 3down10
quote:
Did you just compare Clemson's performance against the #2 offense last year(barely #2) to a team coached by Muschamp which doesn't even have a top25 offense?
Do you really not see a huge difference between Alabama's offense and South Carolina's?
Clemson 56 South Carolina 35
Clemson v. South Carolina last year:
75 plays
600 yards
29 1st downs
3 sacks
1 TFL
1 turnover
35 points allowed
Alabama v. South Carolina on Saturday:
86 plays
459 yards
31 1st downs
3 sacks
7 TFLs
2 turnovers
23 points allowed
Did the 2018 all-world Clemson/Venebles national championship defense suck?
Or do you think maybe you guys are overreacting?
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 4:45 pm to Bear88
quote:
I will say this . If we are ever going to gamble a bit and send more players, this would be the year to do it. Mainly bc you may get burned occasionally but we have an offense that can score tons of points to overcome it. I could see being more conservative if you were worried about scoring on the offensive end
I agree we should blitz almost every play. We have the offense to score with anyone and if we give up a big play that means our defense is not staying out there for long periods of time.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 5:27 pm to prevatt33
quote:
This is pure stupidity. Bama marched up and down the field versus Clemson to the tune of 443 total yards (Clemson had 481 for reference), but stalled in the red zone due to poor execution and penalties. Sure, Venables schemed up a couple of nice interceptions, and so kudos to him for that - but if allowing the opposing offense to move the ball nearly at will and then get lucky inside the 10 equals "master class" to you, you're a buffoon.
He was being sarcastic, but the point is that the "bend but don't break" defense is an actual strategy, and one that can actually work really well if executed properly. Make them earn every yard, keep it all in front of you, give them lots of chances to shoot themselves in the foot with penalties or turnovers and if they do make it into your redzone, they now are very limited in what they can do because of a short field. You can force alot of FG attempts and teams kicking alot of FG's aren't going outscore Tua and this offense. It's a risky way of doing it, but sometimes it's your best shot depending on your talent/depth situation.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 5:27 pm to DLev45
quote:
Clemson 56 South Carolina 35
Clemson v. South Carolina last year:
75 plays
600 yards
29 1st downs
3 sacks
1 TFL
1 turnover
35 points allowed
Alabama v. South Carolina on Saturday:
86 plays
459 yards
31 1st downs
3 sacks
7 TFLs
2 turnovers
23 points allowed
Did the 2018 all-world Clemson/Venebles national championship defense suck?
Or do you think maybe you guys are overreacting?
I think you are using stats poorly as a way to make excuses.
You are taking perceived similarities and posting the results of another situation as if that means it's truth. The same logical level as the transitive property.
Meanwhile, other people are talking about specific problems.
Posted on 9/17/19 at 5:46 pm to tider04
quote:
He was being sarcastic
Yeah, sorry. I haven't really been closely following the bitching and moaning. It's constant and frankly exhausting to read and interact with.
My bad if I jumped in incorrectly. Later.
Posted on 9/17/19 at 5:58 pm to biggsc
quote:
Wrap up and tackle through
Amen. We have some guys who need to improve tackling technique.
What Saban said about defense on Monday:
quote:
Defensively, we played well at times but we made some mental errors that allowed them to keep possession of the ball, which is not a good thing. But made some big red area stops that kept them off the board. Got a couple of turnovers. I think there’s a lot of things that we can improve on. And the No. 1 thing is, we made way too many penalties. We shot ourselves in the foot on both sides of the ball, which really hurt.
"I think our focus needs to be on, here’s what we’re doing well, here’s the things we need to improve on. And we really had a good look on that...
"But there’s three intangible things that we’ve got to make sure we’re getting from all the players that play, no matter who they are or what team, that you’re playing to the level of toughness, giving the level of effort to the standard that we needed and we’re playing with the discipline that we need to execute.
"A lot of these penalties that we got in this game were unforced errors, jumping offsides, things like that, critical situations. Not substituting correctly on defense. We cannot put ourselves in those positions. Third and 10 is a whole lot different from third and 5, so you get an offsides or whatever and they hit a big play because you’re playing different types of coverages...
ON YOUTH OF DEFENSIVE FRONT-7
“Well, I think we’ve got to work hard with those guys to get them to play well. There’s no substitute for experience, there’s no question about that. And we do have a lot of young guys playing in the front seven, but the challenge for us as coaches is to try to teach those guys.
"And I think if those guys can get really comfortable with the basics and the basic fundamentals, then their ability to adapt in a game or when different things come up, they’re going to be able to adjust.
"But you really can’t coach experience into players. You can just try to teach them how to do things, and as they get more repetitions, hopefully, they’re going to improve and develop confidence and that’s our goal with each and every one of those guys.”
ON PATRICK SURTAIN II
“Patrick played very well in the game. I think that he does give us some flexibility as to whether we play him at corner or we play him at Star. We have a couple guys that have some diversity in the secondary this year, which is very helpful.
"But the focus with that group is we didn’t do a great job on the perimeter. We’ve got to do a better job taking on blocks. We’ve got do a better job of getting off blocks. We can’t give up one-for-one on the perimeter. And we’ve got to tackle better. That’s the whole group. And so, that’s something that we need to focus on and improve because we get a lot of those opportunities again this week.”
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 7:48 pm to TidalSurge1
Interesting:
quote:
A lot of SC's chunk plays came from the same play using two pulling OL, which meant SC could get numbers at the point of attack... about a quarter of SC's yardage came on these 6 plays:
1. 20 yards
2. 10 yards
3. 9 yards
4. 12 yards
5. 33 yards
6. 10 yards
In the first clip, the play side LB did exactly what he was suppose to do. He got on top of the play. The backside LB didnt get to the cut back gap and our safety didn’t run the alley for the tackle.
Our LBs and safety should’ve seen the RT and RG down block. The LT and LG pull...if both the linebackers and safety were watching their keys (which would be the RT) then they would’ve seen him down block (run) and ran the alleys.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 7:53 pm to 3down10
quote:
Message
Saban's comments on the defense post-South Carolina by 3down10
quote:
Clemson 56 South Carolina 35
Clemson v. South Carolina last year:
75 plays
600 yards
29 1st downs
3 sacks
1 TFL
1 turnover
35 points allowed
Alabama v. South Carolina on Saturday:
86 plays
459 yards
31 1st downs
3 sacks
7 TFLs
2 turnovers
23 points allowed
Did the 2018 all-world Clemson/Venebles national championship defense suck?
Or do you think maybe you guys are overreacting?
I think you are using stats poorly as a way to make excuses.
You are taking perceived similarities and posting the results of another situation as if that means it's truth. The same logical level as the transitive property.
Meanwhile, other people are talking about specific problems.
I’m actually using specific similarities backed by stats. You’re talking about perceived problems. But carry on.
This post was edited on 9/17/19 at 7:59 pm
Posted on 9/17/19 at 8:46 pm to TidalSurge1
We may want to practice stopping that play. You know other teams will be trying it now.
Heck, maybe we should add it to our playbook if it was so hard to stop.
Heck, maybe we should add it to our playbook if it was so hard to stop.
Posted on 9/17/19 at 9:48 pm to DLev45
quote:
I’m actually using specific similarities backed by stats. You’re talking about perceived problems. But carry on.
You are taking stats out of context and then pretending because A happened in 1 example it must also happen in another example.
It's just another form of the transitive property.
It says nothing of specific issues.
And contrary to what you may think, just because issues exist it doesn't mean the defense is bad. It means there are issues and concerns. Still a top10 defense IMO, but it's no where near the standard, and quoting that Clemson did bad in 1 game doesn't mean a damn thing.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:35 am to bamameister
quote:
Golding just has not got this thing figured out.
Both first string MLBs are out for the season; McMillon, whom Golding had praised for his high football IQ and for getting players in the right position, looked like he'd be calling the plays. Then Moses, the best athlete and other MLB capable of calling plays, goes down as well. Now we have 2 starting MLBs that are true freshman; very talented and will probably be great ones in the long run, but they're still trying to learn the defense...
Many fans pine about Pruitt (I liked him at DC as well) but look at the guys we had at MLB (and all over our D for that matter) when Pruitt was here...big difference. How many true freshmen were starting on Bama's D during Pruitt's time as DC? I could be wrong but I can't think of any; with LaBryan Ray out looks like by this weekend we'll have had 5 true freshman starters on D alone (Dale, Harris, Lee, Battle, and Eboigbe). Has that ever happened in the Saban era? Hell, has that ever happened at Alabama ever? While Battle may end up being a spot starter depending on our formation that's still 4 true freshman who look to be consistent starters. If Golding had Foster & Evans (or SDH) at MLB, not to mention Tim Williams & Ryan Anderson on the outside, I'm sure that'd make him a better DC as well...
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 9:37 am
Posted on 9/18/19 at 9:46 am to OldPete
The problem with the excuse that our young LB's are the issue is that he also called a shitty game vs Clemson.
If it was just this year I could understand the youth being an issue. If he had called a good game last season, I would easily be defending the guy.
But when it's the 15th game of the season and you failed to get any pressure on the opponents QB and you constantly rushed only 3, I'm not a fan of you.
It's funny because when everyone thought Tosh called that game, it was "get rid of Tosh, he sucks". Then Golding is named the DC, it's leaked that he called the defense over the final games - and nobody seems to have an issue.
If it was just this year I could understand the youth being an issue. If he had called a good game last season, I would easily be defending the guy.
But when it's the 15th game of the season and you failed to get any pressure on the opponents QB and you constantly rushed only 3, I'm not a fan of you.
It's funny because when everyone thought Tosh called that game, it was "get rid of Tosh, he sucks". Then Golding is named the DC, it's leaked that he called the defense over the final games - and nobody seems to have an issue.
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