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re: I keep seeing the argument for "the 4 best teams should be in the playoff"
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:41 pm to Bham Bammer
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:41 pm to Bham Bammer
quote:
I simply can't agree that conference championships should trump everything else.
Not really trumping everything else, but it should be a major component.
Saban had a point about the new system devaluing conference games.
Again, I think the bigger flaw is four spots for five major conferences and the gang of five.
I know the reasons put forth against expanding the number of teams, but as long as we stay at four, this will come up.
Look at Penn State. I still do not think they are a great team at all.
But their last lost was in September. If they win their conference, I have a hard time saying they should be kept out.
I would feel similarly if Wisconsin won the conference.
To be perfectly honest, I am bothered that Alabama would be a go if they lost to Florida.
If conference championships do not count, why play them and risk another loss to a quality foe?
Conference championships should be the one thing that are in the full control of the teams--- and that should be rewarded.
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Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:46 pm to Weagle25
The major flaw in your argument is "deserving" is no more concrete a criterion than "best." If Florida wins, are they more "deserving" than OSU or Bama? You can say that conference championships should count, but then you have a new argument: how does a conference championship make a team "deserving?" So we define "deserving" as, in part, winning a conference title. That's circular logic, and a prime example of begging the question (in the actual sense of the term, not the "raises the question" sense so many people use nowadays.)
It's a fine argument when five teams have identical records in Power 5 conferences. But then "deserving" only means that one team played and won an extra game against a (presumably) good opponent. Which makes it no different from saying that the "best" team should go.
It's a fine argument when five teams have identical records in Power 5 conferences. But then "deserving" only means that one team played and won an extra game against a (presumably) good opponent. Which makes it no different from saying that the "best" team should go.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:48 pm to higgs_boson
quote:
but it should be a major component.
It is though, the first year of the playoff showed that
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:59 pm to higgs_boson
quote:
All that talk about how you had to win your conference.
This was the entire reason that the playoff was created and now even many LSU fans are saying that conference or division titles should not be the determining factor.
The playoff is slowly turning college into the NFL and the more teams you add, the worse it will get.
IMO the 5th, 6th, and 7th etc. teams have no business getting a shot at the title in college football.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:00 pm to dbeck
quote:
I'd like to see the conference championship game be like the first round of a playoff. Take all 5 P5 champions + an at-large. Or expand the conferences to 4 super conferences and the 4 champions get into the playoffs.
Or 8 teams, with the P5, and the top 3 lesser conference champs based on SOS. That way the top seed will get to play a creampuff in the first round.
I think this year it would be #1 Alabama (assuming they beat UF) vs #8 Western Michigan.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:01 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Conf Championships shouldnt mean jack shite.
Or else you could have Florida, Va Tech, Okie St,Colorado or Penn St playing for a title
Or else you could have Florida, Va Tech, Okie St,Colorado or Penn St playing for a title
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:01 pm to skirpnasty
I agree. Let's go with a tournament style format. needs to happen
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:09 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
Go to 8 team playoff. Five conference champions + three at large.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:13 pm to Weagle25
quote:
You put the most deserving teams in not the best teams in.
100% agreed.
quote:
a conference championship should matter as that's the least subjective way to determine a champion.
Also agreed, but I'll stop short of saying you should have to win your conference get in. It can still carry weight and be considered, but it shouldn't be a 100% dealbreaker.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:17 pm to dallastiger55
quote:
Conf Championships shouldnt mean jack shite.
I figured an LSU fan wouldn't make such a stupid statement. Bama was given a gift a few years back by not winning conference.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:17 pm to skirpnasty
quote:
I don't care that OSU lost early
They lost Oct 22nd. That's not early.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:18 pm to Weagle25
So far, their entire argument for putting OSU into the 2014 playoff over TCU (OSU won their conference, TCU did not despite TCU having a better resume) is being shot in the face with their thought of having, possibly, two non-champs in it this year.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:20 pm to randomways
quote:
The major flaw in your argument is "deserving" is no more concrete a criterion than "best."
It's absolutely is more concrete. I don't even have to argue that.
quote:
If Florida wins, are they more "deserving" than OSU or Bama?
Up for debate as stated in OP.
quote:
You can say that conference championships should count, but then you have a new argument: how does a conference championship make a team "deserving?"
Because it's the least subjective way to determine a champion as stated in OP.
Who goes to the conference championship? Winner of the division. How was that determined? You played everybody in your division and had the best record. How is it determined which division winner is conference champion? Two division winners played on the field.
Everything about the conference championship is determined on the field. Nobody gives their opinion on who it should be. It was played for. The next argument will be about scheduling but I'm up for the idea that non-divisional opponents shouldn't be factored into determining division champs.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:21 pm to skrayper
quote:
So far, their entire argument for putting OSU into the 2014 playoff over TCU (OSU won their conference, TCU did not despite TCU having a better resume) is being shot in the face with their thought of having, possibly, two non-champs in it this year.
We have no idea what the committee thinks yet. They don't factor in conference championship until the last rankings
If they don't change drastically I expect at the very least that OSU falls from the 2 spot. Whether they'll get in I'm not quite sure but they won't be at 2.
This post was edited on 12/1/16 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:22 pm to skirpnasty
quote:
16 team playoff.
frick no.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:23 pm to dbeck
quote:
If you only take conference champions then the teams know what's at stake. Didn't win your division? Then you've got no room to gripe. It doesn't matter how good you are. Win and get in. That's what fans want to see
Isn't that how all major sports do it?
If you win your division/conference you stay at home and watch the team that finished 2nd to you play for a championship?
The best way to make the conference championship game relevant is that all conferences need to re-write the rules of how the champ is determined.
They need to change from the team that won the most conference games and go to the team with the best overall record, making overall conference records the next tie-breaker and if still the same then head-head competition.
Then let the committee decide the best 4.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:24 pm to skirpnasty
quote:
This is why I'm a fan of expanding it. Nobody gives a shite who the best team is in September,
It's stupidity like this that has absolutely ruined the college basketball regular season.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:26 pm to ssgrice
quote:
Isn't that how all major sports do it?
You mean like the NBA, NHL, and MLB where regular season games are rendered utterly meaningless...especially the NHL and NBA?
Hell fricking no. You want to watch pro sports...go watch fricking pro sports.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:28 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
12 team playoff
Teams 5-12 play in first round. Teams 1-4 get automatic bid to second round.
Could offer more parity to the sport.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 5:29 pm to ssgrice
quote:
They need to change from the team that won the most conference games and go to the team with the best overall record,
That's the worst idea yet. You absolutely cannot have OOC games determine the conference champ. That's absurd and completely defeats the point of having a conference champion
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