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re: A new HC - what are our expectations?
Posted on 11/10/15 at 5:41 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Posted on 11/10/15 at 5:41 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Damn...looking back at some stats from '02 Cocktail Party:
Greene really stunk it up and George Foster had one Gator rape. I know people claim playing DJ fricked Greene up, but that's just Mark Richt creating more magic, folk!
quote:
PASSING Cmp-Att-Int Yds TD Long Sack
David Greene 11-29-0 141 1 31 4
D.J. Shockley 3-6-1 27 0 20 0
Greene really stunk it up and George Foster had one Gator rape. I know people claim playing DJ fricked Greene up, but that's just Mark Richt creating more magic, folk!
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Posted on 11/10/15 at 5:49 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Not saying it is good or bad, but just find it interesting. I guess I feel like Richt has enough talent to luck into one. It's not an endorsement. Just the way I have seen this era of UGA football.
It's why I shine up my Disney covered glasses at the start of every new year, and sip the flavor-aid with every other hapless fan. I, too, remember the Goff years with much clairty and angst, although I'm less inclined to speak ill of Donnan. Donnan was firey and talked a good game, if he didn't coach a good game.
Richt felt right...he shut down the state and closed the recruiting gaps. When he has the talent, he can out talent people. I think, perhaps, this is what he did at FSU and just figured it would be enough here in the SEC.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 6:06 pm to HellRaisingDawg
quote:
I think, perhaps, this is what he did at FSU and just figured it would be enough here in the SEC.
Yes, but Mark Richt's arrival in Athens predates the advent of the SEC arms race, social media and may as well include the Internet as a whole.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 6:12 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Yes, but Mark Richt's arrival in Athens predates the advent of the SEC arms race
He still found a way to go 1-2 against Zook, with that first loss costing us a shot at the whole thing. I'll never understand that. Never. At least he was 3-1 against Will.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 6:24 pm to HellRaisingDawg
I would love it if we could keep CMR, (he's a great face for the University and the program) AND enjoy a wholesale culture change. Sadly that is never going to happen. Our guys are taught that if you end up trying your "best" and still can't catch a break, then it's okay to be a backup QB. Not everyone can be Jim Kelly or Vinnie Testaverde, just like not everyone can be Bama or Ohio State.
It's sad and sickening at the same time. Georgia is better than that. A ship in port is safe- but that's not why ships are built.
It's sad and sickening at the same time. Georgia is better than that. A ship in port is safe- but that's not why ships are built.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 6:58 pm to djsdawg
quote:
From 1996 to 2000 uga was 8-14 vs ranked teams
After taking a closer look I could only find 7 victories vs ranked teams and FIVE were vs teams ranked #22,#25,#25,#25 and #24. Beat a grand total of ONE team ranked in the top 12 (UF in '97)
UGA did it twice in '13 alone.
Donnan was a joke and those numbers prove it.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:01 pm to VoxDawg
Earlier on Finebaum, Barrett Sallee said that he thinks Richt will be back and that he would be shocked if he wasn't replacing both coordinators. But... Pruitt 
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 7:30 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:16 pm to Mike Gordon
quote:
he would shocked if he wasn't replacing both coordinators.
That's a death sentence for Richt. Who that is worth a damn would be convinced to come here to coach under such conditions? We would downgrade on both sides of the ball.
This is the worst case scenario for the program...one that will have negative ramifications for five or more years. Better to nuke it completely and start the frick over.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:20 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Our guys are taught that if you end up trying your "best" and still can't catch a break, then it's okay to be a backup QB.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:24 pm to HellRaisingDawg
I agree with you. If Richt gets another year, I want Pruitt to stay.
Sallee also said that the main reason for Georgia retaining Richt was recruiting. That UGA can finish with the #1 overall class
Sallee also said that the main reason for Georgia retaining Richt was recruiting. That UGA can finish with the #1 overall class
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:28 pm to Mike Gordon
quote:
If Richt gets another year, I want Pruitt to stay.
As do I. Dream scenario (for me) is Richt leaves, new coach is hired and convinces Pruitt to stay (not fricking likely). I'm fine with nuking the whole thing, though. I am years over all of it.
quote:
That UGA can finish with the #1 overall class
bullshite. No fricking way. We will have a better class if he stays, but he won't pull the top class. I'll eat my steak dinner and like it if that happens.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:35 pm to Mike Gordon
quote:
UGA can finish with the #1 overall class
Mathematically, that's possible, but HIGHLY improbable. We'd have to close on Nauta, Hardman, Derrick Brown, Greg Little, Kyle Davis and practically every other 4-5* that we've offered.
If Richt stays, Schottenheimer and McGarity have to go, and CMR needs to burn as many candles as it takes to let the powers that be allow him to retire gracefully at the end of next season. Anything else will result in his being shown the door, possibly unceremoniously.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:35 pm to Mike Gordon
quote:
If Richt gets another year
Failure is already baked into the cake for next year - freshman QB (assuming Eason comes and plays). So he won't just get one more year, it would be several.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:54 pm to FaCubeItches
quote:
So he won't just get one more year, it would be several.
Which is why I favor the nuke. BURN IT THE frick DOWN!!!!
Goddamn, the off season is going to be one for the ages.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:57 pm to FaCubeItches
But seriously...
How much worse can QB play be next year? Wouldn't it HAVE to be better? I mean...EASON!!!!
quote:
Failure is already baked into the cake for next year - freshman QB (assuming Eason comes and plays).
How much worse can QB play be next year? Wouldn't it HAVE to be better? I mean...EASON!!!!
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:57 pm to DawgsLife
A lot of activity since I last looked at this thread so rather than make 15 different response posts I'll just summarize all of them here.
FYI there is apparently a character limit on posts lol
@dawglife
Yeah that's what I thought too. I have seen the fire ADGM in a few places recently, and I was kind of blind sided by it. I was under the impression that he was doing good things with the IDPF and Georgia's recent dive into paying assistant coaches competitive salaries. But I won't defend him without knowing more.
@dawglife
Funny how you say this when you quote my very words of "I don't mean that it's NC or bust" and YOUR words in THIS post:
That's an epic fail if I've ever seen one. I added a disclaimer because I knew someone would try to put words in my mouth...and still they put words in my mouth *sigh*.
Don't get blown out at least once a year. Beat quality opponents at a rate that is consistent with your peers. Don't just rely on outclassing 90% of your opponents in talent and then get drilled by every opponent with equal talent as you (before anyone takes that too literally, "everyone" is hyperbole). If you do that then eventually you'll win something (see 2002 and 2005 SEC championship seasons).
I was referencing USCw under Pete Carrol when they were successful. They haven't gotten it right since then, but you have to keep trying until you do.
Is Notre Dame beating quality opponents? Yes. Do they have a NC? My answer is the same if you had asked me in 2006 about Georgia when Richt was the right guy based on all the criteria I have laid out as to why he is no longer the right man at the top. "I don't care".
Nebraska hasn't gotten it right. Florida didn't get it right with Ron Zook, but their hire after that was pretty good. Muschamp was a bust, but it's possible they got it right this time (too early to tell, but assuming the early results are an indicator of things to come Florida is getting it right 50% of the time in the last 15 years).
But really though. Why can't we focus on who we want to be instead of who we don't want to be? You and I can continue listing worst and best case scenarios, but honestly it's an asinine argument for both of us. Any change is a risk. Staying status quo is also a risk. Make your evaluations on the state of things and a separate evaluation of where you want to be. If they are not in line then you have to make a change. For me, Jim Donnan's success rate was not good enough in the late 90's, and a slightly better rate 2006-2015 isn't either.
@dawgslife
Before I even go into the numbers, just use common sense. If you have 2 equally talented teams and they play 10 times, it should go about 50/50 right? Maybe they go 6-4/4-6 if the ball bounces one way but overall it should be a very even matchup. Now, no team is ever really elite every single year, you go up and down. So, how did LSU, Florida and Auburn get to be 9-20 points better against those opponents over an 8 year period? They had some winning seasons to offset the seasons when it was another team's turn. Georgia isn't getting their 'turn' at the same rate those other schools are. They are usually .500 or worse.
I'd also like to make an observation which references your opinion on coaching changes (how most of them don't pan out). So, if most of them don't pan out then what does that say about Georgia that there are two programs on that list which are at least 9% points better than us despite being on their 3rd coach in the 2008-2015 time frame. Another observation since we keep using Alabama as the outlier, 2 of the programs on that list above Georgia play Alabama every year which gets added into their L column.
FYI there is apparently a character limit on posts lol
@dawglife
quote:
Actually, I am with you on this one. I don't pay close enough attention. I think it stems from the rumors coming out that McGarrity was trying to force Richt out and possibly was making moves to hinder the success of the football program to keep Richt from succeeding. I'm not sure where this all came from or how accurate it is, though. I was under the impression he was making the moves everyone had been hoping for. IPF, etc.
Yeah that's what I thought too. I have seen the fire ADGM in a few places recently, and I was kind of blind sided by it. I was under the impression that he was doing good things with the IDPF and Georgia's recent dive into paying assistant coaches competitive salaries. But I won't defend him without knowing more.
@dawglife
quote:
Seriously? Let me see...so much fail here. You guys are wanting to fire Richt because he cannot get us to "the next level"...meaning the National Championship. Notre Dame has not won one. USCw has not won one. Florida has not won one (And after one season who can tell if they have it right or not?) Nebraska? No. The only one on that list that has gotten it "right" according to everyone's expectations is Alabama.
Here are YOUR words in THIS poat:
Funny how you say this when you quote my very words of "I don't mean that it's NC or bust" and YOUR words in THIS post:
quote:
You guys are wanting to fire Richt because he cannot get us to "the next level"...meaning the National Championship
That's an epic fail if I've ever seen one. I added a disclaimer because I knew someone would try to put words in my mouth...and still they put words in my mouth *sigh*.
Don't get blown out at least once a year. Beat quality opponents at a rate that is consistent with your peers. Don't just rely on outclassing 90% of your opponents in talent and then get drilled by every opponent with equal talent as you (before anyone takes that too literally, "everyone" is hyperbole). If you do that then eventually you'll win something (see 2002 and 2005 SEC championship seasons).
quote:
They have not gotten there and their changes have not helped...in fact, while they are showing improvement, they are not doing any better than Georgia is with Richt. Ok. Alabama is doing better. But not USCw. Not Nebraska. Not Tennessee. Not Florida (Although it is WAY top early to say either way) ....I'm trying to figure out how any of them are doing better than we are with Richt. And some have been and still are struggling mightily.
I was referencing USCw under Pete Carrol when they were successful. They haven't gotten it right since then, but you have to keep trying until you do.
Is Notre Dame beating quality opponents? Yes. Do they have a NC? My answer is the same if you had asked me in 2006 about Georgia when Richt was the right guy based on all the criteria I have laid out as to why he is no longer the right man at the top. "I don't care".
Nebraska hasn't gotten it right. Florida didn't get it right with Ron Zook, but their hire after that was pretty good. Muschamp was a bust, but it's possible they got it right this time (too early to tell, but assuming the early results are an indicator of things to come Florida is getting it right 50% of the time in the last 15 years).
But really though. Why can't we focus on who we want to be instead of who we don't want to be? You and I can continue listing worst and best case scenarios, but honestly it's an asinine argument for both of us. Any change is a risk. Staying status quo is also a risk. Make your evaluations on the state of things and a separate evaluation of where you want to be. If they are not in line then you have to make a change. For me, Jim Donnan's success rate was not good enough in the late 90's, and a slightly better rate 2006-2015 isn't either.
@dawgslife
quote:
So, in short NOBODY but Alabama is winning consistently against SEC teams with .500 record or better. Not LSU (.500) not Auburn, not Florida....while true that Georgia is the worst of the ones mentioned, NONE of the ones ahead of us would make it to a NC with those results
Before I even go into the numbers, just use common sense. If you have 2 equally talented teams and they play 10 times, it should go about 50/50 right? Maybe they go 6-4/4-6 if the ball bounces one way but overall it should be a very even matchup. Now, no team is ever really elite every single year, you go up and down. So, how did LSU, Florida and Auburn get to be 9-20 points better against those opponents over an 8 year period? They had some winning seasons to offset the seasons when it was another team's turn. Georgia isn't getting their 'turn' at the same rate those other schools are. They are usually .500 or worse.
I'd also like to make an observation which references your opinion on coaching changes (how most of them don't pan out). So, if most of them don't pan out then what does that say about Georgia that there are two programs on that list which are at least 9% points better than us despite being on their 3rd coach in the 2008-2015 time frame. Another observation since we keep using Alabama as the outlier, 2 of the programs on that list above Georgia play Alabama every year which gets added into their L column.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 7:57 pm to FaCubeItches
@ATLDawg25
Why doesn't it make sense? There are only 12 teams that have been in the SEC since 2008 and Georgia ranks 5th in that stat. They are basically as far away from the #4 team is as the #4 team is from #2. They rank 5th behind a school that by your own admission "has been horrible since Urban Meyer left"...Meyer left in 2010 so you're telling me it's ok that Florida is still 11.7% points better than Georgia even after 4 "horrible" years (that's one more than Florida had of Meyer in those stats)?
@dawglife
Despite all the banter I really don't mean any offense, but I have a serious problem with that statement. This is the University of Georgia. #11 in all time college football wins, 2 Heisman trophy winners, multiple national championships (outside of the AP poll), and a program that had the 4th most players in the NFL of any college on week 1 this year. This is a program that has averaged the #8 recruiting class in the nation since 2008 (24/7 sports). There is a reason we don't compare ourselves to Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Arkansas, or Ole Miss. Take a step back to the late 90's. Georgia was in a position that 80% or more of the nation would have loved to be in as a perennial top 25. In terms of just the SEC, Georgia was better than 75% of the conference under the previous coach. Those are not the standards though. The bar is set at a certain level and you compare yourself to those who are at or above the bar. To me the standard is Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Florida State, etc...because Georgia has both the history and resources to be there.
@dawglife
I'll give the numbers in a second, but if you think about it, Jim Donnan played a lot of ranked teams too. In the mid-late 90s Florida never finished below like #7 in the country and Tennesse who never finished below #12 (AP Polls from memory) in his 5 year run. He also faced a ranked Tech team in 3 of his 5 seasons. That's 3 that he had built in for most years. Now as for the numbers, I'm using rankings at the time of the game since it's easier and I don't have to cross reference.
1996 - 1-3
1997 - 1-2
1998 - 2-3
1999 - 2-3
2000 - 1-3
Total - 7-14; 4.2 games vs ranked opponents per season and a 33% win rate.
Richt was 11-22 2008-2014 (Final rankings since I had that available). 4.7 games per season vs ranked opponents and a 33% win rate.
I prefer to use final rankings so there could be some play in the Donnan stats, but I would feel pretty confident in saying that the numbers are in the general area either way considering half of the opponents were top 15.
I kind of wanted to leave this alone because I don't want to be antagonist, and I feel like I have already addressed a lot in this post. Fair is fair though :P
Richt supporters don't care and don't want to hear facts. They fall on 3 arguments 1.) it could be worse, 2.) we don't want to lose this great recruiting class, 3.) belief that things are better than they are.
@Hellrisingdawg
This is exactly how I feel, and it is what the great teams do. Beat the teams you're better than, split against the teams equal to you, and occasionally pull off an upset. And when you do lose, don't make a habit of losing by 2 and 3 touchdowns. I don't really believe in moral victories, but I have a lot more confidence in you losing by 4 instead of 24.
quote:
a) Florida has been horrible after making a coaching change until they got Meyer. McElwain has exceeded expectations this year but as mentioned before, it is only one year. Muschamp had one good year too and it turned out to be an outlier.
b) Your comment about winning percentage makes no sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? There are only 12 teams that have been in the SEC since 2008 and Georgia ranks 5th in that stat. They are basically as far away from the #4 team is as the #4 team is from #2. They rank 5th behind a school that by your own admission "has been horrible since Urban Meyer left"...Meyer left in 2010 so you're telling me it's ok that Florida is still 11.7% points better than Georgia even after 4 "horrible" years (that's one more than Florida had of Meyer in those stats)?
@dawglife
quote:
You are correct, sir. But we aren't the worst. We were virtually tied for 5th in the SEC.
I mean, if you are going to narrow it down to certain teams, then yes, we are the worst. However, if I narrow the SEC race down to Alabama and LSU, then LSU is the wrost team in the SEC. That's bad, right?
Despite all the banter I really don't mean any offense, but I have a serious problem with that statement. This is the University of Georgia. #11 in all time college football wins, 2 Heisman trophy winners, multiple national championships (outside of the AP poll), and a program that had the 4th most players in the NFL of any college on week 1 this year. This is a program that has averaged the #8 recruiting class in the nation since 2008 (24/7 sports). There is a reason we don't compare ourselves to Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Arkansas, or Ole Miss. Take a step back to the late 90's. Georgia was in a position that 80% or more of the nation would have loved to be in as a perennial top 25. In terms of just the SEC, Georgia was better than 75% of the conference under the previous coach. Those are not the standards though. The bar is set at a certain level and you compare yourself to those who are at or above the bar. To me the standard is Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Florida State, etc...because Georgia has both the history and resources to be there.
@dawglife
quote:
Possibly. I don't know and don't want to spend too much time looking all of that up. But I'd bet Donnan's was worse. I'd also bet that Donnan didn't play against as many Top 15 teams...or 25....or whatever the number was.
I'll give the numbers in a second, but if you think about it, Jim Donnan played a lot of ranked teams too. In the mid-late 90s Florida never finished below like #7 in the country and Tennesse who never finished below #12 (AP Polls from memory) in his 5 year run. He also faced a ranked Tech team in 3 of his 5 seasons. That's 3 that he had built in for most years. Now as for the numbers, I'm using rankings at the time of the game since it's easier and I don't have to cross reference.
1996 - 1-3
1997 - 1-2
1998 - 2-3
1999 - 2-3
2000 - 1-3
Total - 7-14; 4.2 games vs ranked opponents per season and a 33% win rate.
Richt was 11-22 2008-2014 (Final rankings since I had that available). 4.7 games per season vs ranked opponents and a 33% win rate.
I prefer to use final rankings so there could be some play in the Donnan stats, but I would feel pretty confident in saying that the numbers are in the general area either way considering half of the opponents were top 15.
quote:
Richt haters don't care. they don't want to hear facts.....if the facts don't match up with their narrative then they change the narrative. I absolutely do not understand how they can hate someone as much as they do Richt. It's amazing the lengths some of them go to.
I kind of wanted to leave this alone because I don't want to be antagonist, and I feel like I have already addressed a lot in this post. Fair is fair though :P
Richt supporters don't care and don't want to hear facts. They fall on 3 arguments 1.) it could be worse, 2.) we don't want to lose this great recruiting class, 3.) belief that things are better than they are.
@Hellrisingdawg
quote:
Win when you should, and win a few that you shouldn't. Leave the Championships up to the luck it takes to get there.
This is exactly how I feel, and it is what the great teams do. Beat the teams you're better than, split against the teams equal to you, and occasionally pull off an upset. And when you do lose, don't make a habit of losing by 2 and 3 touchdowns. I don't really believe in moral victories, but I have a lot more confidence in you losing by 4 instead of 24.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 8:04 pm to Dawgs28
quote:
There is a reason we don't compare ourselves to Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Arkansas, or Ole Miss.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 8:07 pm to Dawgs28
quote:
Dawgs28
Member since Oct 2015
11 posts
Who the frick are you?
Posted on 11/10/15 at 8:09 pm to Dawgs28
quote:
And when you do lose, don't make a habit of losing by 2 and 3 touchdowns. I don't really believe in moral victories, but I have a lot more confidence in you losing by 4 instead of 24.
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