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re: Clearing up some misconceptions about A&M
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:33 am to winyahpercy
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:33 am to winyahpercy
quote:
30k students in 1978 was a big arse school. it's bigger than the Univ. of SC @ Columbia is today, and 30% of our students in the graduate schools. I don't think A&M has a law or medical school, so most of it's students are undergraduate. VMI has 1,500 students today. Clemson had an Ag, Military, & all male background like A&M for most of its history, but they've figured out how to get female cheerleaders. Even The Citadel which was all-male military up until the late 90's has female cheerleaders. FSU was all-female until 1950, but they've figured out how to win a couple of national championships.
I believe that A&M has a huge potential because of its resources, but there are no excuses why it hasn't been better in the past.
Without looking at the numbers, I feel nearly certain that A&M has been better historically than South Carolina. And South Carolina is not one of the large schools I am talking about. i am talking about the kind of schools that you find on the graph I posted.
2
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:33 am to Bose Ikard
The $$ would suggest that Arkansas does have a top 15 fanbase.
We were ranked #8 most valuable by Forbes last year, and we are top 15 in merchandise sales.
We were ranked #8 most valuable by Forbes last year, and we are top 15 in merchandise sales.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:33 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
If you are too dense to understand how Notre Dame is an exception to the generally reliable correlation between the size of a fan base and the size of an alumni base, then I can't help you.
So how do you explain Auburn in your chart that you posted. are they yet another exception?
It seems you are the one with the misconceptions here.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:34 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
Arkansas is not one of those schools.
The real mystery then is how we sucked so badly without Coach Fran and sleepy Sherm. Even more a mystery is how we seemed to fair pretty well in the death hell pit of doom Kyle Field with this massively growing 12th man to contend with. I for one can't wait to bolt for the Big 12-4+2=10 to escape the looming juggernaut that is A&M. Why do you think we left the SWC in the first place?
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:38 am to Bose Ikard
The real issue A&M has is that your brand is weird.
You have 30k students at games, which means you have 55k or so paid non-students at a game.
Arkansas has 9500 student tickets at Fayetteville games, which means in a sell-out of 76k, we have 66,500 non-student fans at games.
Our fans tend to donate more and spend more, too.
We also have a shitload of t-shirt fans and always have. They spend $ and support the program.
Its about your brand and your traditions that outsiders don't identify with. And I don't see that changing.
You have 30k students at games, which means you have 55k or so paid non-students at a game.
Arkansas has 9500 student tickets at Fayetteville games, which means in a sell-out of 76k, we have 66,500 non-student fans at games.
Our fans tend to donate more and spend more, too.
We also have a shitload of t-shirt fans and always have. They spend $ and support the program.
Its about your brand and your traditions that outsiders don't identify with. And I don't see that changing.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:39 am to Pigimus Prime
That there is a correlation between enrollment and alumni base is undeniable. That there is a correlation between alumni base and fan base should be obvious as well. The correlation, while significant, can be overcome.
For example, if a school is the flagship school of millions of Catholics, enrollment doesn't matter too much. If a school is in a state without professional sports, then it can sometimes get the following of a lot of "t-shirt fans." Such sports fans want to follow a local team, and there is no NFL team to compete for there allegiance. Neither of those exceptions apply to A&M.
For example, if a school is the flagship school of millions of Catholics, enrollment doesn't matter too much. If a school is in a state without professional sports, then it can sometimes get the following of a lot of "t-shirt fans." Such sports fans want to follow a local team, and there is no NFL team to compete for there allegiance. Neither of those exceptions apply to A&M.
This post was edited on 7/31/12 at 9:42 am
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:40 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
is a school is the flagship school
I'm not sure what that means, but I can say it isn't easy being a Flagship. All the lower-down types are always gunning for you.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:41 am to Pigimus Prime
quote:
For example, if a school is the flagship school of millions of Catholics,
Was it really not obvious to you that I was referencing ND?
This post was edited on 7/31/12 at 9:43 am
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:42 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
Bose Ikard
quote:
There is the misconception that A&M has long had large-school resources. There is the misconception that historic rivalries were fought on the grounds of equal resources. And there is the misconception that A&M is not currently, in terms of fan base, on par with the more successful SEC schools. The following information should clear those up:
A&M's enrollment through the years (further, it was almost entirely male in 1971):
1971 14,684
1972 16,067
1973 18,410
1974 21,244
1975 24,876
1976 27,547
1977 28,833
1978 30,255
1979 31,331
1980 33,499
1981 35,146
1982 36,127
1983 36,846
1984 36,827
1985 35,675
1986 36,570
1987 39,079
1988 39,163
1989 40,492
1990 41,171
In the 25 years from 1971 - 1990, A&M was totally transformed from what was more or less a bigger version of the Virginia Military Institute into a large state school. All of this is more recent that most people realize. Until the 1980s, LSU would not even come to College Station to play us. If college football had big TV in the 70s, A&M would not have had a chance at playing in a major conference.
It takes a generation for those first graduates of the "new" A&M to fill up the alumni base, which hasn't quite happened yet (although it is close).
This explains why it is surprising to many people how it is possible that, when Nate Silver ( LINK ) wrote an article analyzing the size of the fan bases for college football, he got this ( LINK / ):
A&M is very new money, so to speak. But it is what it is. As an Aggie, I hope we are able to tap the potential that our newly acquired resources bring, and very soon (it's already overdue!) We'll see.
(Edited to add the misconceptions that I am wanting to clear up).
You were up over 30K students the year before I was born (1978).
33 years ago.
LSU went over that amount-I believe-in either my first or 2nd semester.
Which was back in 1997.
So you're actually decidedly wrong. All that research proved the diametrically opposite point you're driving at. You probably didn't even bother to check other schools enrollment totals. Did you?
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:43 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
That there is a correlation between alumni base and fan base should be obvious as well.
yes it seems quite obvious that your fanbase sucks, you have such a large enrollment thoughout the years yet little correlation between that and your fanbase
quote:
enrollment doesn't matter too much. If a school is in a state without professional sports, then it can sometimes get the following of a lot of "t-shirt fans." Such sports fans want to follow a local team, and there is no NFL team to compete for there allegiance. Neither of those exceptions apply to A&M.
So what you are saying is your logic is filled with exceptions and lots of them at that.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:45 am to Bose Ikard
I was talking about the
part...
**Edit, I see you fixed that, just having fun I knew what you meant.
quote:
is a school is
part...
**Edit, I see you fixed that, just having fun I knew what you meant.
This post was edited on 7/31/12 at 9:46 am
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:46 am to Gnar Cat21
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So y'all do or don't have a predominantly gay student body?
wrong Texas school
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:47 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
Central Florida is the standard-bearer for incredible growth. Can you find another school that added at least 13,243 students from 1971-1990? Maybe you can. I'd like to see it.
Close, between 1971 and 1990 UF added 13,038 students going from 23,498 to 36,531.
UF went from 9,001 students in 1951 to about 52,000 in 2011.
All Florida schools have seen incredible growth, the state has grown from 2.5 million in 1950 to 19 million in 2010.
This post was edited on 7/31/12 at 9:53 am
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:47 am to GFunk
quote:
You were up over 30K students the year before I was born (1978).
33 years ago.
LSU went over that amount-I believe-in either my first or 2nd semester.
What is important is fan base, which is usually correlated to enrollment, but lags by a LONG TIME.
A&M played LSU in Baton Rouge every year until 1975, because our fan base was too small to warrant a home-and-home. Think about that.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:48 am to Numberwang
quote:
Plus, if you have all dudes, doesn't that mean you have twice as many potential football players?
Are you retarded?
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:49 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
What is important is fan base, which is usually correlated to enrollment, but lags by a LONG TIME.
So aTm should have a much larger fanbase than LSU or most of the SEC schools, since they have had a much larger enrollment for a longer period of time
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:49 am to FincAg11
quote:
A&M played LSU in Baton Rouge every year until 1975, because our fan base was too small to warrant a home-and-home. Think about that.
Well that's just plain embarrassing.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:50 am to Bose Ikard
quote:
quote:30k students in 1978 was a big arse school. it's bigger than the Univ. of SC @ Columbia is today, and 30% of our students in the graduate schools. I don't think A&M has a law or medical school, so most of it's students are undergraduate. VMI has 1,500 students today. Clemson had an Ag, Military, & all male background like A&M for most of its history, but they've figured out how to get female cheerleaders. Even The Citadel which was all-male military up until the late 90's has female cheerleaders. FSU was all-female until 1950, but they've figured out how to win a couple of national championships. I believe that A&M has a huge potential because of its resources, but there are no excuses why it hasn't been better in the past. Without looking at the numbers, I feel nearly certain that A&M has been better historically than South Carolina. And South Carolina is not one of the large schools I am talking about. i am talking about the kind of schools that you find on the graph I posted.
i still don't get the point you are trying to make. i wasn't trying to say that SC was better, just that A&M is and has always been a big arse school since 1970. A&M in 1970's was bigger than Alabama or Auburn is today. Mississippi State is bigger than Clemson, but doesn't have the same following.
and do you realize that the Nate Silver chart you reference (according to Nate in the story) is unscientific and based on an online survey, so don't put too much stock into it.
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:50 am to GFunk
Hell, as of 2009, LSU was under 30k students.
Currently, we aren't over 30,000
Best historical enrollment data I can find.
Enrollment by Classification
Fall Semesters
Freshman Sophomore Junior Senior Masters Doctoral Professional* Total
2011 6,509 5,601 5,076 6,794 2,528 2,076 401 28,985
2010 6,573 5,068 5,357 6,688 2,608 2,102 375 28,771
2009 5,958 5,138 5,170 6,751 2,563 2,051 361 27,992
2008 6,237 5,041 5,104 7,018 2,485 1,943 366 28,194
2007 5,724 5,001 5,536 7,136 2,421 1,845 356 28,019
2006 5,912 5,738 5,742 7,197 2,490 1,870 368 29,317
2005** 6,947 5,894 5,709 7,159 2,647 1,860 348 30,564
2004 7,795 5,707 5,690 7,205 2,967 1,837 360 31,561
2003 7,485 5,718 5,559 7,400 2,983 1,744 345 31,234
2002 7,316 5,874 5,863 7,619 2,897 1,675 338 31,582
2001 7,384 5,905 5,855 7,384 2,911 1,627 336 31,402
2000 7,509 5,868 5,577 7,176 2,810 1,619 311 30,870
1999 7,824 5,647 5,428 7,023 3,033 1,696 326 30,977
1998 7,722 5,335 5,019 6,697 3,022 1,770 316 29,881
1997 7,031 4,938 4,579 6,177 3,202 1,838 312 28,077
1996 6,613 4,534 4,230 6,045 3,207 1,924 298 26,851
1995 6,202 4,179 4,101 5,892 3,309 1,922 292 25,89
quote:
As of the spring of 2009, LSU's enrollment is more than 26,000 students, including more than 1,400 international students and over 4,000 graduate students.
Currently, we aren't over 30,000
quote:
The student body consists of nearly 29,000 students from 50 states and more than 100 foreign countries. Although the average age of undergraduates is 21, many older students also pursue degrees at LSU. The student body is 51 percent women and 49 percent men.
Best historical enrollment data I can find.
Enrollment by Classification
Fall Semesters
Freshman Sophomore Junior Senior Masters Doctoral Professional* Total
2011 6,509 5,601 5,076 6,794 2,528 2,076 401 28,985
2010 6,573 5,068 5,357 6,688 2,608 2,102 375 28,771
2009 5,958 5,138 5,170 6,751 2,563 2,051 361 27,992
2008 6,237 5,041 5,104 7,018 2,485 1,943 366 28,194
2007 5,724 5,001 5,536 7,136 2,421 1,845 356 28,019
2006 5,912 5,738 5,742 7,197 2,490 1,870 368 29,317
2005** 6,947 5,894 5,709 7,159 2,647 1,860 348 30,564
2004 7,795 5,707 5,690 7,205 2,967 1,837 360 31,561
2003 7,485 5,718 5,559 7,400 2,983 1,744 345 31,234
2002 7,316 5,874 5,863 7,619 2,897 1,675 338 31,582
2001 7,384 5,905 5,855 7,384 2,911 1,627 336 31,402
2000 7,509 5,868 5,577 7,176 2,810 1,619 311 30,870
1999 7,824 5,647 5,428 7,023 3,033 1,696 326 30,977
1998 7,722 5,335 5,019 6,697 3,022 1,770 316 29,881
1997 7,031 4,938 4,579 6,177 3,202 1,838 312 28,077
1996 6,613 4,534 4,230 6,045 3,207 1,924 298 26,851
1995 6,202 4,179 4,101 5,892 3,309 1,922 292 25,89
Posted on 7/31/12 at 9:51 am to Bose Ikard
You have been debunked in every manner possible.
Give up now and quit the board before the season starts.
Give up now and quit the board before the season starts.
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