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Offensive vs Defensive "Minded" head coach
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:03 pm
Since coaching vacancies are already open and more are expected (Hi Auburn!), curious what the rant thinks about offensive vs defensive "minded" head coaches. We all know the offensive "geniuses" get all the press, but how often do they deliver the results? Some quick notes and data on offensive vs defensive head coaches in the CFP & BCS eras:
-- In the CFP era, head coaches with a defensive background have won 62% of that Natty's
-- In the BCS era, head coaches with an offensive background won 56% of the Nattys. IMO, I think this shows the flaw where the computers gave too much credit for margin of victory in the early years of BCS.
-- In both era's combined, offensive head coaches that directly ran the offense (called plays) only won the natty 8% of the time for a total 2 total times. Urban did it at OSU and Jimbo did it FSU. Edited: Urban didn't call plays at UF.
Seems to me that the formula for success is a defensive minded or CEO type Head coach with a really good offensive coordinator. Trying to find the next Urban has mostly yielded disappointing results for those in search of Nattys.
Thoughts?
-- In the CFP era, head coaches with a defensive background have won 62% of that Natty's
-- In the BCS era, head coaches with an offensive background won 56% of the Nattys. IMO, I think this shows the flaw where the computers gave too much credit for margin of victory in the early years of BCS.
-- In both era's combined, offensive head coaches that directly ran the offense (called plays) only won the natty 8% of the time for a total 2 total times. Urban did it at OSU and Jimbo did it FSU. Edited: Urban didn't call plays at UF.
Seems to me that the formula for success is a defensive minded or CEO type Head coach with a really good offensive coordinator. Trying to find the next Urban has mostly yielded disappointing results for those in search of Nattys.
Thoughts?
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 2:52 pm
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Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:07 pm to Devil03Dawg07
quote:
Seems to me that the formula for success is a defensive minded or CEO type Head coach with a really good offensive coordinator.
Or vice versa. I think most national champions are great on both sides of the ball.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:10 pm to Devil03Dawg07
What you really should want is someone who knows both sides of the ball, ideally someone who knows the most important aspect of the game on both sides outside of QB play: the lines.
Take Sam Pittman for example. He was an All American defensive end in college and became one of the best offensive line coaches in America.
Take Sam Pittman for example. He was an All American defensive end in college and became one of the best offensive line coaches in America.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:20 pm to Jon Ham
quote:
Take Sam Pittman for example. He was an All American defensive end in college and became one of the best offensive line coaches in America.
Fair point. Unfortunately, those type Head coaches seem perpetually very under-rated by fan bases & ADs, and are almost non-existent to the media until they are highly successful.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:23 pm to Devil03Dawg07
What about guys like Brian Kelly who started as softball coaches?
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:28 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
What about guys like Brian Kelly who started as softball coaches?
I was mostly looking at National Championship coaching histories, and we all know that BK falls under Not Applicable here....in any sport.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:32 pm to Devil03Dawg07
Still believe defense is the way to go, but the offensive guys definitely make things more fun to watch. Both Bama & UGA typically have great offenses, but HCs that are defense centric.
The game became more offensive focused and Saban recognized the balance had to change. Bama shifted gears, went away from game manager QBs, and started putting up massive yards/ points.
The game became more offensive focused and Saban recognized the balance had to change. Bama shifted gears, went away from game manager QBs, and started putting up massive yards/ points.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 1:43 pm to ReversePiggie
quote:
Still believe defense is the way to go, but the offensive guys definitely make things more fun to watch. Both Bama & UGA typically have great offenses, but HCs that are defense centric.
The game became more offensive focused and Saban recognized the balance had to change. Bama shifted gears, went away from game manager QBs, and started putting up massive yards/ points.
I'm not sure this was as strategic or intentional as most people think. I give Saban all the credit in the world for brining in Kiffin/Sark and changing the offense, but loosing Kirby definitely impacted the defense (and thus the overall philosophy) ....and as more time goes by....the more you can see it. They still have the same caliber athletes, but the defensive results aren't the same.
Point being, I think Bama would still look a little more like the Bama of old if Kirby was still there. With Kirby gone, Saban continued to allow OCs to open up the offense more.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:36 pm to Jon Ham
Fulmer was a mediocre offensive mind but he sure knew how to recruit and develop lineman. Tennessee almost always had great offensive and defensive lines in his era.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:39 pm to Devil03Dawg07
Only the top schools are able to get the talent necessary on defense for them to be led by their defense at a championship level. So it’s not surprising it skews towards that.
However, I also think defenses have adjusted somewhat to the RPO/recent offensive innovations.
However, I also think defenses have adjusted somewhat to the RPO/recent offensive innovations.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:40 pm to Devil03Dawg07
Wait, where are you getting that Urban called the plays at UF?
Posted on 9/20/22 at 2:51 pm to MetroAtlantaGatorFan
quote:
Wait, where are you getting that Urban called the plays at UF?
good catch. I knew he called them at OSU but made a poor assumption he did so at UF.
I'll edit.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:12 pm to Devil03Dawg07
OU has had both with stoops, Riley, and now Venables. I’ll take stoops and Venables with a competent OC any day over the charmin soft Riley teams. If you watch USC right now they look like cookie cutter OU teams from 2015-2021, a defense usually out of position and open running lanes, with receivers running behind the DBs. Lucky for them they haven’t played a single decent QB yet. Watching OU play elite defense again is a far better feeling. OU is such a good example because the teams are highly talented, and they have had elite teams throughout BCS and playoff eras but have lost due to lack of a defensive culture specifically.
This post was edited on 9/20/22 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:35 pm to Boomer00
quote:
OU has had both with stoops, Riley, and now Venables. I’ll take stoops and Venables with a competent OC any day over the charmin soft Riley teams. If you watch USC right now they look like cookie cutter OU teams from 2015-2021, a defense usually out of position and open running lanes, with receivers running behind the DBs. Lucky for them they haven’t played a single decent QB yet. Watching OU play elite defense again is a far better feeling. OU is such a good example because the teams are highly talented, and they have had elite teams throughout BCS and playoff eras but have lost due to lack of a defensive culture specifically.
This is the correct answer. OU is the perfect example.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:37 pm to Devil03Dawg07
quote:
I was mostly looking at National Championship coaching histories, and we all know that BK falls under Not Applicable here....in any sport.
I mean he won two D2 national championships.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:39 pm to Devil03Dawg07
quote:
good catch. I knew he called them at OSU but made a poor assumption he did so at UF.
I'll edit.
That's why it was a big deal when Mullen left for Moo St, Urban had never called plays as a HC at Bowling Green/Utah/UF until after then.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:39 pm to Devil03Dawg07
Defensive minded coaches will have more conservative teams and manage risk better than offensive minded ones.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:54 pm to Boomer00
quote:
If you watch USC right now they look like cookie cutter OU teams from 2015-2021
USC may be the only blue blood in the country where style is more important than Wins. Riley's a good fit.
Posted on 9/20/22 at 3:57 pm to Jon Ham
quote:
Take Sam Pittman for example. He was an All American defensive end in college and became one of the best offensive line coaches in America.
Or Kirby Smart who has coached as an assistant both on offense and on defense. (He was actually a RB coach at UGA despite mostly being a DB and DC coach)
Posted on 9/20/22 at 4:17 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
What about guys like Brian Kelly who started as softball coaches?
Or high school girls volleyball coaches?
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