re: Hey guys, remember when Spencer Pennington was our QB?

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Same. I also get pissed when people start ragging on Shula. Yeah, we struggled those years, but we were on probation, we had just gone through the humiliation of Mike Dubose's fall from grace, and Mike Price's strip joint rendezvous. For all his faults, he brought back some stability and dignity to our program, and handled his firing with about as much grace and class as anyone could.

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Yea, it's hard to place blame for all of that on Shula.

(A) He took the job when everyone knew it could be a career ender. And, looking back, it may have bene for him. Not his career in general (he's had a nice, solid, long career in Carolina since then) but his college career seems to be over. And, if reports are true, he's dabbled with trying to get back in over the years.

(B) He took the job after spring ball in the midst of probation. He didn't have to do that. He could have stayed in the NFL for the next 30 years as a QB coach and/or Offensive Coordinator.

I wish I hadn't been stuck in my prime college years during his coaching era, but I don't blame that on him as much as I do our shitbag athletic department, their reliance on "Bahr Guys" for so long and our loudmouth cheating arse boosters.

As you said, if not for the way he kept it together on and off the field and kept us clean we'd NEVER have hired Saban. Ever. He sacrificed a lot for his University and we owe him all of our gratitude for it.

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Yea, it's hard to place blame for all of that on Shula.

(A) He took the job when everyone knew it could be a career ender. And, looking back, it may have bene for him. Not his career in general (he's had a nice, solid, long career in Carolina since then) but his college career seems to be over. And, if reports are true, he's dabbled with trying to get back in over the years.

(B) He took the job after spring ball in the midst of probation. He didn't have to do that. He could have stayed in the NFL for the next 30 years as a QB coach and/or Offensive Coordinator.

I wish I hadn't been stuck in my prime college years during his coaching era, but I don't blame that on him as much as I do our shitbag athletic department, their reliance on "Bahr Guys" for so long and our loudmouth cheating arse boosters.

As you said, if not for the way he kept it together on and off the field and kept us clean we'd NEVER have hired Saban. Ever. He sacrificed a lot for his University and we owe him all of our gratitude for it.

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All of this. X10

Luckily we have time and perspective now. Shula took on what was probably the worst coaching situation ever handed to a coach short of the guy who took over SMU post death penalty. Even Baylor is in a better situation that we were, they aren't dealing with a crushing probation.

Let's face it, our program was an embarrassment and a laughing stock at that point. "It's rolling baby" was to only was we could crack the news other than more cheating allegations or the aforementioned shitbag boosters falling up the stairs and dying.

He left the program in much better condition that it had any right to be and even delivered a 10 win season. Seems laughable now, but the program was gutted when he got to town and heading even further down.

When the keys of the program were handed to Saban, he had a clean slate, probation issues in the rear view and for the most part Shula had kept the boosters at a distance. Not to mention, most of the core of a team that went undefeated in the regular season in 2008 was already in place, including guys like Rolando and Javier Arenas.

Was Shula a great coach? I can't say that he was, when he left it as definitely time for a transition. The situation was only once worse for any college coach. He served the University well and changed the whole narrative and image around the program. In some ways the challenge he took on was greater than what Saban had to do. I think that's why Mal gave him that last bump in salary and raised his buyout. Mal knew he served us well, but his time had passed.

Saban had to change culture and teach the team how to win every day; Shula had to pull us out of the ashes.

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I don’t think we owe him a thing. We gave him his only head coaching job and paid him millions. His only qualifications were his alumni status and last name. He wasn’t that aggressive on the recruiting trail and was too loyal to assistants. The night he was fired, he tried to hide from Mal.

After he was let go, he let his dad aggressively attack us while he stayed silent. I’m not going to dog Shula like I do DuBose, Fran, or Price but I don’t think he should be treated as if he took a bullet for us either. He was a career assistant in the NFL before he came to UA and that’s what he was afterwards.

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All fair points

I still cannot belive we signed Tua

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IMhO, he took the job because he loves UA, the money and opportunity distant runners up.

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Sorry, but I don’t believe money and opportunity were a distant runner up. If we had offered him an assistant coaching position he wouldn’t have left the Dolphins.

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he handled the firing with a grace and dignity that I’ve seen few times in my life before or since

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Goodness gracious. Shula was a total introvert which is why he never said anything. Plenty of coaches move on with their lives and never say anything about a previous termination. If he really loved UA like you say and was really displaying class & dignity, he would’ve told his dad to pipe down instead of bashing us all over ESPN for weeks on end.

Again, Shula shouldn’t be relentlessly trashed but he also wasn’t some martyr.

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also wasn’t some martyr.

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Definitely don't think he was a martyr. The only thing I think he is "owed" is some perspective on the situation he walked into. Few coaches were going to have success at Bama through those years. He certainly made plenty of mistakes and had his own set of faults, but I definitely think he tried to make the best of a shitty situation. Can't fault him for that.

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Anyone else think Mike Ford was going to save the day for us at Running back? Each year that he couldn't qualify was like a dagger.

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Yeah. I forgot about Ford. As you say, we had high hopes for him. Every year.

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Sorry, but I don’t believe money and opportunity were a distant runner up.

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What I mean is, and obviously I can't speak for him personally, but i don't think he'd have taken a HC position anywhere else under the same circumstances.

He walked into a shitshow in the middle of a shitstorm.

As far as his dad's reaction, I think it was compounded by the fact that we hired Saban away from the Dolphins. Plus, I don't know about you, but I have about as much control over the weather as I do my parents.

I am in the pro-Shula camp in that I think he did the best he could under the worst possible circumstances. I also think he served a very important function. Without Shula, I'm not sure we could have rid ourselves of the hangers on, glad handers and Bear boys. They had to be shown a sea change in the AD culture was vital.
If Saban had stepped in right at the moment Shula did I don't think he would have been successful. Mike served a necessary transition function from where we were to where we wanted to be.