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re: Deboer is In over his head.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 10:12 am to Gideon Swashbuckler
Posted on 10/20/24 at 10:12 am to Gideon Swashbuckler
quote:
But if he came out and said, "We have to follow the process and come out and put our guys in a position to be successful," EVERY frickING WEEK, he wouldn't be lost? WTF do you want the coach to say? It's a stupid fricking question.
Yeah, judging a coach by what they say in a frickin press conference is about the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
And accountability? Discipline?? Etc? Some of yall have completely forgotten Saban’s 2007 year. Remember when Roy Upchurch and others got arrested on the Strip and the fricking police report mentioned Upchurch saying something like “eff, Saban.” Was Upchurch kicked off the team? Benched? Remember DJ Hall being suspended for a game and then Saban changed his mind because it was Homecoming? Courtney Upshaw getting physical with his GF? I mean, there are countless examples of Saban doing the exact opposite of what we fans thought a “tough, no nonsense coach” should do.
I mean, I seriously. Saban was the ULTIMATE players coach. If you talk to ANY former players, even LSU players, they all mention Saban as someone who really cares about them.
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Posted on 10/20/24 at 10:30 am to GAFF
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They're not educators. They're coaches. If you want to know why they warrant that large of a salary look no farther than the University before Saban arrived to now. The revenue that Saban brought to the school is why he was paid his salary.
My criticism isn't so much why college coaches make the big bucks but rather their justification for why they should and the players should not. It is ultimately the players who provide the entertainment - and risk their health and future in a very violent sport.
Saban was worth a lot of money primarily because he was able to recruit the best players to his program. But the dynamic of recruiting is changing as the players have more power than they used to.
Good high school coaches could take major college rosters and provide a level of play that would still draw millions of eyes. Amazing players are more entertaining than amazing coaches.
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The players "pay" was a free education from the university
A college education doesn't have the same value to everyone, nor does its value equal the exposure to a university that a talented football player can provide.
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Your basically questioning the legitimacy of college sports as currently constituted.
Correct.
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So let's say we just dial things back, raise academic standards, stop worrying so much about W's and L's, and just grow up a bit.
Now I'm not sure what the ramifications would be, but I think the University would likely be fiscally destroyed by this.
Take whatever approach you want, but players should be able to profit from their talent and the exposure they bring.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 11:11 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
We can't fire him ... yet.
Half a season is enough of a sample size for me to start wondering aloud if this regime is going to figure it out but not enough to assume he's a goner. Things can change but what I've seen on the field is deeply concerning.
The discipline is worse than 2021-2023 no matter how many people try to push some of it off on the locker room dynamic Saban left behind. That's not just purely penalty thing, it is the type of penalties they're getting in addition to the problems with players getting beat and getting grabby in coverage or being a step late and contacting a quarterback on the pass rush. The personal conduct penalties are up compared to Saban's last three years. The amount of chirping from the players is visibly more pronounced than Saban's last three years. Rival fans I'm friends with are pointing it out that the players are doing things that even Old Man Saban would not tolerate without immediate mid-game consequences. You think KLaw is going to be on the field for a KR after getting a personal conduct penalty before a critical 4th down play under Saban? If you do, you ain't just smoking the weed...you're smoking the hard shite.
Additionally, the staff is a mess at administrative game management concepts and tactical decision making. We're way too transparent with what we're going to do on offense and defense. I'm tired of seeing us line up in empty with a TE attached to the LOS in short yardage. It is incredibly telegraphed that we're about to run Milroe. They added a wrinkle to reverse it to KLaw but it was also pretty obvious it was a 50/50 situation that KLaw was about to get the ball on a critical 3rd down the 2nd time they tried it. They waste 1st downs looking for shock and awe plays and consistently put the offense in the 2nd and 10 conundrum where the run play is the worst call in football yet the QB cannot throw short well enough to get you into 3rd and medium where run or pass is an equally likely threat to the defense. They have mismanaged the end of half situation several times this season. They don't seem to have a good feel on how to manage the 2-minute timeout which indicates the lack of research in the offseason on rule changes.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 11:32 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Deboer is In over his head.
If DeBoer is going to succeed as Alabama's head coach, it's going to be on his own terms. He is not going to magically turn into Nick Saban Jr. and it isn't fair to expect him to do so. He has won at a very high level before he came here by doing things his way.
His main issue is that he is trying to change the culture at a program which over the past 17 years has had probably the strongest culture in the history of the sport. This isn't something he is doing as an option - it was inevitable no matter who we hired because we are trying to replace Nick Saban, a man who was selected as one of the best leaders in the world in any profession by Forbes magazine. Whoever came here was going to have to deal with the issue of trying to put their own stamp on a program more defined by one man than any since probably Bryant. That's not easy to do.
Now, is it impossible? Maybe, maybe not. But I will say that if DeBoer is going to succeed, he will probably get better the fewer players he has on the roster who remember the way things used to be under Saban. That allows him to make the program more the way he wants it and deal less with players who don't respect him or his way of doing things simply because he isn't literally Nick Saban.
All that to say: I'm not giving up on him yet. He has a monumental task to try and accomplish. This year was going to be a struggle no matter what. I think it's more fair to wait and judge him over the next two years. Those will really tell the tale.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 11:49 am to Diego Ricardo
OK let’s concede that every word in the second part of your post is gospel truth.
Is it because the staff is incompetent at calling plays, or is it because they are stuck with probably the 999,999th quarterback DeBoer would choose to run his stuff, which basically has to have smart QB play, but they have seen the alternatives and have judged that he’s still their only decent option, and they’re just trying to do the best they can with him until they can get someone in who’s capable of running the stuff?
The problem of course is that our fan base hasn’t had to deal with such a predicament in two decades and the fact that it’s biting us in the arse now is not computing in their brains.
Is it because the staff is incompetent at calling plays, or is it because they are stuck with probably the 999,999th quarterback DeBoer would choose to run his stuff, which basically has to have smart QB play, but they have seen the alternatives and have judged that he’s still their only decent option, and they’re just trying to do the best they can with him until they can get someone in who’s capable of running the stuff?
The problem of course is that our fan base hasn’t had to deal with such a predicament in two decades and the fact that it’s biting us in the arse now is not computing in their brains.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 11:58 am to TheTideMustRoll
I know he can't be Saban. Don't expect him to be.
I also understand about coach speak and press conferences.
But I'm trying to understand why a team that practices hard, prepares well, and plays hard(According to Deboer), is so bad.
By the process of elimination it seems to come down to the coach doesn't know what's wrong. He knows where the breakdowns are, but he doesn't seem to understand why they are happening.
In life, everyone wants to succeed. If your a lawyer you want to win cases. A salesman wants to sell. A General wants to win battles. And the first step is understanding why you aren't. That's where your coach, mentor or manager comes in.
And we all know when our mentor, coach or manager doesn't know what your problem is, they basically just become a liability, reminding you that you need to perform without telling you how.
All that does is raise the anxiety level.
I also understand about coach speak and press conferences.
But I'm trying to understand why a team that practices hard, prepares well, and plays hard(According to Deboer), is so bad.
By the process of elimination it seems to come down to the coach doesn't know what's wrong. He knows where the breakdowns are, but he doesn't seem to understand why they are happening.
In life, everyone wants to succeed. If your a lawyer you want to win cases. A salesman wants to sell. A General wants to win battles. And the first step is understanding why you aren't. That's where your coach, mentor or manager comes in.
And we all know when our mentor, coach or manager doesn't know what your problem is, they basically just become a liability, reminding you that you need to perform without telling you how.
All that does is raise the anxiety level.
This post was edited on 10/20/24 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 10/20/24 at 12:12 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
But I'm trying to understand why a team that practices hard, prepares well, and plays hard(According to Deboer), is so bad.
I'm not sure what exactly you expect DeBoer to say at his press conferences. "I'm out there coaching as hard as I can but these players just don't get it. We're making the right calls as a staff but the team is just failing to execute. I don't have the right players at the right positions for what I want to run." That would be Hugh Freeze-level frickery and I wouldn't respect him if he did that. I'm sure he is trying to cover for his players when he gets up in front of the media. What he says to them behind closed doors is presumably different and much more pointed.
Now, I'm not saying I haven't seen things that make me concerned. This team is extremely sloppy when it comes to penalties - but then they were for Saban's last couple of years, too. I don't always agree with the playcalling, and discipline overall seems to be lacking. But, again, you could say the same about the past couple of years. I don't think Wommack is the answer at DC, but that's easy for me to say. I'm willing to wait and see what moves DeBoer makes to try and address these things going forward. It's clear at this point that this is not a championship team, so now the focus has to be on building towards future championships.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 12:34 pm to Globetrotter747
Hi Globtrotter... Just wanted to let you know I typically just scroll these pages looking for common sense.. and the lack there of... I have never seen the movie Blue Chips, yet will have it on my too watch list now. This is spot on.. not just about basketball, not just about sports, yet also defines the nature of our "what have you done for me lately" world we live in and how it is so easy for even the most level-headed (and sometimes brightest) of our society get caught up in detrimental rationalizations of what this world is all about. A die hard Alabama fan since childhood in the 60's, I try to not let teens and the young 20 year olds define my esteem.. especially when it comes to the expectation that they meet my needs. God Bless these kids and I hope they All grow up to be fine adults. The whole Milroe is responsible for "my team" making "ME" feel badly so I'm going to blame him for everything drives me crazy. Surface oriented, linear perspective thinkers in this world who project their problems onto a player (or even a team for that matter) indicates there is a lot of growing left to be done.. and it's not on the football field. Roll Tide
Posted on 10/20/24 at 2:09 pm to RiverCityTider
I hate to say it, but I've come to think that Deboer hires are in over their heads. They've shown no improvement in recent weeks. Let's see what he does to correct this.
This post was edited on 10/20/24 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 10/20/24 at 2:11 pm to Pharmdbamafan
quote:
It’s unfair to judge this coach when he had half a year and inherited a toxic culture like LANK.
You sound like Hugh Freeze...
This post was edited on 10/20/24 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 10/20/24 at 2:26 pm to RiverCityTider
The OP is ABSOLUTELY correct. I said it when we hired Deboer that you cannot go get a guy from the PAC12 and expect him to be successful in the SEC. He has NO clue what he is doing and it's clear. Is Milroe a problem? Absolutely. But DeBoer isn't the guy.
It'll be 2027 before we are relevant again fellas and Ive accepted in. 1 more year of DeBoer and then 2 years of the guy we hire after him before we are good.
Also, one more GUARANTEE....Ryans Williams is gone after this year.
It'll be 2027 before we are relevant again fellas and Ive accepted in. 1 more year of DeBoer and then 2 years of the guy we hire after him before we are good.
Also, one more GUARANTEE....Ryans Williams is gone after this year.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 4:51 pm to InkStainedWretch
quote:
OK let’s concede that every word in the second part of your post is gospel truth. Is it because the staff is incompetent at calling plays, or is it because they are stuck with probably the 999,999th quarterback DeBoer would choose to run his stuff, which basically has to have smart QB play, but they have seen the alternatives and have judged that he’s still their only decent option, and they’re just trying to do the best they can with him until they can get someone in who’s capable of running the stuff? The problem of course is that our fan base hasn’t had to deal with such a predicament in two decades and the fact that it’s biting us in the arse now is not computing in their brains.
I suppose we’re going to find out over the next few seasons the truth of it.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 5:07 pm to bamacj1999
quote:
The OP is ABSOLUTELY correct. I said it when we hired Deboer that you cannot go get a guy from the PAC12 and expect him to be successful in the SEC. He has NO clue what he is doing and it's clear. Is Milroe a problem? Absolutely. But DeBoer isn't the guy.
You know this how?
Every great coach we had struggled their first year. Bryant, Stallings, Saban all had bad first years
Posted on 10/20/24 at 5:09 pm to 14&Counting
They were all hired to do rebuilds.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 5:48 pm to RiverCityTider
DeBoer is a good enough coach to turn things around. The bottom line is he has to adjust his style. He’s way too loose with these players. If he doesn’t start running a tighter ship, he won’t succeed here. If he does, he still could. That’s the bottom line.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 6:31 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
I was confident he would develop the QB. He has not.
Dude, even Steve Sarkisian wouldn't be able to develop Milroe.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 6:39 pm to panhandlebama
I believe that we should give the new staff some time guys dang
Posted on 10/20/24 at 6:44 pm to RiverCityTider
I refer y'all to a Twitter exchange shared in the "Milroe killed the program" thread involving someone identified as a journalist and someone identified as a former Tide player, in which the former Tide player said the following: "If people knew what CKD is having to deal with and balance right now within that locker room, they would totally understand. I would never publicly say it but that coaching staff is having to tow the line for the long term success of this program."
That could be total, unadulterated BS, but maybe there is caca going down right now in that locker room and rot in that locker room, amid all the "talent," that we don't know about, and maybe it's time to put the pitchforks and the torches down and consider whether the whole frickin' thing might need to be blown up and fumigated in the short term and we start over for the greater good of the program.
That could be total, unadulterated BS, but maybe there is caca going down right now in that locker room and rot in that locker room, amid all the "talent," that we don't know about, and maybe it's time to put the pitchforks and the torches down and consider whether the whole frickin' thing might need to be blown up and fumigated in the short term and we start over for the greater good of the program.
This post was edited on 10/20/24 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 10/20/24 at 7:51 pm to InkStainedWretch
If that were true, then Byrne would be involved as well has the BOT. We're talking big money if the HC is being blackmailed over a pathetic QB.
Hard to believe.
Hard to believe.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 8:07 pm to JoseyWalesTheOutlaw
Maybe so. Maybe it’s not outright blackmail but the whole “If Milroe doesn’t play, we don’t put out” deal. Which I guess would be actual blackmail …
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