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re: Comparing Alabama offensive coordinators, Sark, Locks, Dabol, Kiffin
Posted on 9/20/19 at 12:00 pm to BamaGradinTn
Posted on 9/20/19 at 12:00 pm to BamaGradinTn
It's 100% a numbers game, especially if you have QBs and WRs you totally trust.
It is absolutely negligent to run 8-10 run plays a game into outnumbered fronts just for the sake of balance when you are even outside and have guys like we have with a QB who can get it them accurately and in stride every time.
It is absolutely negligent to run 8-10 run plays a game into outnumbered fronts just for the sake of balance when you are even outside and have guys like we have with a QB who can get it them accurately and in stride every time.
This post was edited on 9/20/19 at 12:02 pm
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Posted on 9/20/19 at 12:02 pm to Tider95
quote:
Thank you for not reading the article. I appreciate your old-school feelings based input.
You didn't answer the question.
You said: "run success has no correlation with success of play action"
And my question is why does a quarterback even fake a handoff on a play action pass if the run game has no impact (what you are calling correlation) to the passing game?
What you want is for that split second for the linebackers and defensive secondary to play run, which gives your receivers that split second to make a move on a route that will get behind or evade those linebackers and defensive backs.
After all, a faked hand off, if not serving a purpose, is just one more thing that might cause a fumble. If there is no decent running game, or more to your point, if there is no "correlation" to the run game and the passing game, then it's pointless to fake that hand off and take a chance on the fumble, not to mention that the quarterback takes his eyes off the receivers running their route.
So you didn't answer the question.
Why fake the handoff if the running game has no impact on the passing game?
This post was edited on 9/20/19 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 9/20/19 at 1:24 pm to John Milner
quote:
What you want is for that split second for the linebackers and defensive secondary to play run, which gives your receivers that split second to make a move on a route that will get behind or evade those linebackers and defensive backs.
I think you hit on the entire concept of offensive football. That split second. When defenses are off-balance, or on their heels it's because they are a step behind and a step behind will get you beat.
Our first TD Saturday, the SC safety (#21) is playing about 10 yards back and when the ball is snapped he flies up to the OLBer spot in the box and bites on the Najee Harris fake in the backfield. Tua rolls a little to his left and Najee keeps running on a wheel route. The safety is still watching the ball and totally forgets about Najee in the pass pattern and he ran right by him. Najee wasn't touched until he got to the endzone. All that required enough play-action to get the safety to bite. I mean, after all it was his man.
Posted on 9/20/19 at 4:18 pm to John Milner
So not to jump in on your discussion let me pose this:
A fake is a fake regardless if the opposition believes it. Would a strong run game make it more believable or not? Or does it freeze everyone for a flash? Maybe both, maybe one. However, I think everyone or most everyone is going to freeze and wait to see. Even Clemson, if you watch their games do it, that’s almost natural. So to answer the question, a fake is a fake and still has the effect give or take experience on the defense, success in the game etc. just my .10 cents.
A fake is a fake regardless if the opposition believes it. Would a strong run game make it more believable or not? Or does it freeze everyone for a flash? Maybe both, maybe one. However, I think everyone or most everyone is going to freeze and wait to see. Even Clemson, if you watch their games do it, that’s almost natural. So to answer the question, a fake is a fake and still has the effect give or take experience on the defense, success in the game etc. just my .10 cents.
Posted on 9/20/19 at 5:38 pm to CrimsonBoz
and play fake is just an indicator that the run game keeps the defense honest. How many times have you heard commentators and coaches talk about keeping the defense honest? So a threat of a run obviously impacts the passing game at least to a degree, and the better the running game is, the more the defense will have to respect that. Likewise, a good passing game will help the running game. It's really a no brainer. Kind of hard to believe we're even debating this.
but as to the earlier, related point about the UA passing game, I agree that it's our best option. That too is kind of a no brainer with Tua and the best wide receiving corps in the nation.
but as to the earlier, related point about the UA passing game, I agree that it's our best option. That too is kind of a no brainer with Tua and the best wide receiving corps in the nation.
This post was edited on 9/20/19 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 9/20/19 at 6:02 pm to John Milner
Well it’s a fun discussion either way. Digging deep into football is a good time.
Posted on 9/20/19 at 6:43 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Kiffin also had a true freshman QB who was not anywhere near ready to be a passing QB and a bunch of studs at RB (and a stud runner at QB).
Daboll came in with the same QB, PLUs the best trio of freshman receivers Alabama has ever signed and couldn't come close to what Kiffin did. The guy was garbage.
Posted on 9/20/19 at 7:03 pm to Evolved Simian
quote:
Daboll came in with the same QB, PLUs the best trio of freshman receivers Alabama has ever signed and couldn't come close to what Kiffin did. The guy was garbage.
I don't think he was garbage, but he was not suited to work with a kid like Hurts.
He'd spent his whole career in the NFL drawing plays and coaching around the edges. He wasn't used to dealing with a guy as limited as Hurts was and developing him.
I think he would have been really good last year and this year.
Posted on 9/20/19 at 7:04 pm to CrimsonBoz
in any event, I'm not as apprehensive about the offense as I am the defense, especially with the injuries and having to depend on 4 true freshmen in the front 7.
Still, I do think we can win it all with this team. Lot of games to be played but I think by the end of the year, barring more injury depletion, we'll have as good a chance as any other team and better than most.
Still, I do think we can win it all with this team. Lot of games to be played but I think by the end of the year, barring more injury depletion, we'll have as good a chance as any other team and better than most.
This post was edited on 9/20/19 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 9/20/19 at 7:56 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
He'd spent his whole career in the NFL drawing plays and coaching around the edges. He wasn't used to dealing with a guy as limited as Hurts was and developing him.
True, but that's part of the job in college. He literally caused a quarterback to regress. The guy that sucked so bad in 2017 is currently #2 in the Heisman odds playing for a guy who knows how to teach QB's.
Garbage was probably an overstatement, and he might have been better with Tua, but Daboll was clearly not cut out to be a college coach
Posted on 9/20/19 at 8:11 pm to Evolved Simian
quote:
The guy that sucked so bad in 2017 is currently #2 in the Heisman odds playing for a guy who knows how to teach QB's.
Riley is obviously a very good quarterback coach, but it is also a factor that OU plays in a conference that has really bad defenses. I don't think OU has even gotten into that schedule yet, but I bet it's a good guess that the defenses they have played so far aren't much better than The Big 12. That aside, the only (part of) OU game I watched, most of Jalen's passes were within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. He could do that fairly well even in his freshman year.
I don't think that Daboll caused Jalen to regress. He just didn't develop him to get better as Dan Enos did last year, and Riley has this year. I think Daboll wanted to play Tua earlier even than the Auburn game. Daboll didn't look bad at all the 2nd half of the national title game.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 8:22 am to John Milner
The moment Tua came into a ball game in Daboll's offense he was a highlight machine. We went from prodding along with brut force under Jalen and Tua came in firing all over the field.
Daboll never had a QB that fit the system he was trying to run. In short, I doubt seriously if he had the authority to put the guy in that he knew could run his system. The NC game in the second half also gave us an idea of what could have happened down of the Plains in 2017. Daboll had receivers open, Jalen just couldn't put the ball on them.
A power run team with New England type spread concepts with Tua and the best receiver group in football? Yeah, give me 3 years of that. Instead, we got a half of a game against Georgia to remind us of what things could have looked like.
Daboll never had a QB that fit the system he was trying to run. In short, I doubt seriously if he had the authority to put the guy in that he knew could run his system. The NC game in the second half also gave us an idea of what could have happened down of the Plains in 2017. Daboll had receivers open, Jalen just couldn't put the ball on them.
A power run team with New England type spread concepts with Tua and the best receiver group in football? Yeah, give me 3 years of that. Instead, we got a half of a game against Georgia to remind us of what things could have looked like.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 6:47 pm to Evolved Simian
quote:
Kiffin also had a true freshman QB who was not anywhere near ready to be a passing QB and a bunch of studs at RB (and a stud runner at QB).
Daboll came in with the same QB, PLUs the best trio of freshman receivers Alabama has ever signed and couldn't come close to what Kiffin did. The guy was garbage.
This is bogus. As soon as Daboll had Tua at his disposal, you saw what he could do.
Posted on 9/21/19 at 7:10 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
It is absolutely negligent to run 8-10 run plays a game into outnumbered fronts just for the sake of balance when you are even outside and have guys like we have with a QB who can get it them accurately and in stride every time.
It is not negligent if you are trying to develop another part of your offense. Runnning against outnumbered fronts isn't a fait accompli - we've seen the 2012 OL do it and even Stanford teams do it.
What has kept recent Alabama teams from realizing their potential has been the reliance on "taking what the defense gives you".
I remember when Blake Sims was looking down Amari Cooper since he was always 5 yards open at the detriment of building other parts of the offense. When the offense ran into a team where Cooper wasn't 5 yards open (OSU), we didn't have anything in the passing game to fall back on.
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