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College Football Blue Bloods
Posted on 5/30/21 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/30/21 at 11:34 am
The general coast to coast consensus is that there are 8 College Football Bluebloods.
Bama
Ohio State
USC
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Michigan
Texas
Nebraska
By every reasonable measure, Bama leads in National Titles.
Bama also leads in weeks ranked #1, as well as average ending rank (#4). We are likely to lead in all time winning % within the next few years, having virtually tied OSU and Notre Dame.
The only measure that we will not lead in will be total wins, largely due to the fact that 29 wins were forfeited. Otherwise we would be within a couple of years of being #1 in that category.
One other category that we can reasonably claim to lead in is national championship winning head coaches, with five ... Saban, Stallings, Bryant, Thomas and Wade.
So by most every parameter, Bama is the most dominant team in the history of the sport.
Given our lofty status, it might take 50 or 100 years of mismanagement for the Tide to fall from the ranks of the best of the best.
But... It has happened. Minnesota comes to mind. Once considered a Blueblood, they are now not even an afterthought, recognized only by football historians as having any place in football lore.
And some suggest that Nebraska is on the precipice of falling from the group. And most certainly some others remain more on the strength of reputation alone.
My question is, how does Bama remain in that group for as long as the game is played? How do we avoid becoming a Minnesota or possibly, Nebraska.
And I'm talking about the next 50 years, not five or ten.
Bama
Ohio State
USC
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Michigan
Texas
Nebraska
By every reasonable measure, Bama leads in National Titles.
Bama also leads in weeks ranked #1, as well as average ending rank (#4). We are likely to lead in all time winning % within the next few years, having virtually tied OSU and Notre Dame.
The only measure that we will not lead in will be total wins, largely due to the fact that 29 wins were forfeited. Otherwise we would be within a couple of years of being #1 in that category.
One other category that we can reasonably claim to lead in is national championship winning head coaches, with five ... Saban, Stallings, Bryant, Thomas and Wade.
So by most every parameter, Bama is the most dominant team in the history of the sport.
Given our lofty status, it might take 50 or 100 years of mismanagement for the Tide to fall from the ranks of the best of the best.
But... It has happened. Minnesota comes to mind. Once considered a Blueblood, they are now not even an afterthought, recognized only by football historians as having any place in football lore.
And some suggest that Nebraska is on the precipice of falling from the group. And most certainly some others remain more on the strength of reputation alone.
My question is, how does Bama remain in that group for as long as the game is played? How do we avoid becoming a Minnesota or possibly, Nebraska.
And I'm talking about the next 50 years, not five or ten.
This post was edited on 5/30/21 at 11:36 am
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Posted on 5/30/21 at 11:55 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
My question is, how does Bama remain in that group for as long as the game is played? How do we avoid becoming a Minnesota or possibly, Nebraska.
And I'm talking about the next 50 years, not five or ten.
I mean some of this is outside the University’s control. Certainly demographic changes hurt Minnesota. The rules changing to shift football from a violent trenches game to a basketball on turf game has hurt Nebraska.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 12:21 pm to TomRollTideRitter
As far as rule changes we should support to stay on top:
Any playoff expansion helps us. I think a large reason you don’t see lots of basketball programs vanish is that good basketball programs are insulated from missing the tournament. Now that the media and some players and fans have deemed bowl games unimportant, you can lose the spotlight quickly even going 10-2. See Florida State.
We should probably be fine with the on-field rules the way they are. The lessening of the importance of good lineman and gritty linebackers in favor of track stars generally benefits southern teams over Midwest teams.
We should protect the SEC and fight against the nationalization of conferences. I think at some point we’ll see an attempt to form a true super conference. I.e., Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, etc. in one conference. All that does is give schools outside the south easier access to our talent.
The reason the SEC is so dominant is because if you grow up in the south, where the most talent is, you have to play in the SEC to play in the south. We don’t want to give other programs access to that. See how terrible Syracuse, UConn, St. John’s, Georgetown have all gotten at basketball since the Big East fell.
Also, being in a southern conference gives us more power. Nebraska wouldn’t be in the state they’re in if they were still a top dog in a Great Plains league instead of being a second tier program in the Ohio State conference.
Any playoff expansion helps us. I think a large reason you don’t see lots of basketball programs vanish is that good basketball programs are insulated from missing the tournament. Now that the media and some players and fans have deemed bowl games unimportant, you can lose the spotlight quickly even going 10-2. See Florida State.
We should probably be fine with the on-field rules the way they are. The lessening of the importance of good lineman and gritty linebackers in favor of track stars generally benefits southern teams over Midwest teams.
We should protect the SEC and fight against the nationalization of conferences. I think at some point we’ll see an attempt to form a true super conference. I.e., Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, etc. in one conference. All that does is give schools outside the south easier access to our talent.
The reason the SEC is so dominant is because if you grow up in the south, where the most talent is, you have to play in the SEC to play in the south. We don’t want to give other programs access to that. See how terrible Syracuse, UConn, St. John’s, Georgetown have all gotten at basketball since the Big East fell.
Also, being in a southern conference gives us more power. Nebraska wouldn’t be in the state they’re in if they were still a top dog in a Great Plains league instead of being a second tier program in the Ohio State conference.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 1:20 pm to RiverCityTider
Army and Yale say, "Hai"
Posted on 5/30/21 at 1:36 pm to Pastor Mike
I hope we learned our lesson during the 80's and 90's of
1) having and keeping an admin/president that recognizes the importance and benefits of having an elite athletics program, and that football pays the bills for said athletic program plus some academic ones too. No more presidents like Joab Thomas or Andrew Sorenson's and no more AD's like Bob Bockrath.
2) Hiring the best coach available for the job and not narrowing the search to be only for an "Alabama man" or one of "Bear's Baws." How did that work out for us before? Where would we be now if Mal Moore had kept that philosophy? When the time comes, I don't want us to go searching for a coach with any requirements beforehand, other than they be the best man or woman for the job.
1) having and keeping an admin/president that recognizes the importance and benefits of having an elite athletics program, and that football pays the bills for said athletic program plus some academic ones too. No more presidents like Joab Thomas or Andrew Sorenson's and no more AD's like Bob Bockrath.
2) Hiring the best coach available for the job and not narrowing the search to be only for an "Alabama man" or one of "Bear's Baws." How did that work out for us before? Where would we be now if Mal Moore had kept that philosophy? When the time comes, I don't want us to go searching for a coach with any requirements beforehand, other than they be the best man or woman for the job.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 1:44 pm to RiverCityTider
Bama is fortunate in that we're located in a talent region of the country, where the disparity will be even greater over time due to black flight from places like Michigan and Cali.
Now that doesn't factor in economic crisis, climate change and the possibility of America splitting up due to an inefficient political structure.
Now that doesn't factor in economic crisis, climate change and the possibility of America splitting up due to an inefficient political structure.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 2:00 pm to phil4bama
Yes, let's not forget how academia sometimes is resentful of big time college athletics. Joab was an example, with his stupid committee and his odd ball choice of Mr. Clean, Bill Curry.
And Michigan and to a lesser degree Texas have been harmed by the anti-sports crowd, harping about coach's salaries and inequality between male and female sports. The faculty was one reason why Texas would never have been able to do what it took to pull Saban.
And Michigan and to a lesser degree Texas have been harmed by the anti-sports crowd, harping about coach's salaries and inequality between male and female sports. The faculty was one reason why Texas would never have been able to do what it took to pull Saban.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 3:11 pm to RiverCityTider
Alabama
Everyone else
Everyone else
Posted on 5/30/21 at 3:26 pm to RiverCityTider
We just cannot expect what we have been blessed with the last 15 years, but we should be able to contend and win titles in the future if the commitment remains.
And to echo what has already been said, we will compete for titles as long leadership continues to understand the overwhelming net positive the program's success means for the entire university.
And to echo what has already been said, we will compete for titles as long leadership continues to understand the overwhelming net positive the program's success means for the entire university.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 4:14 pm to RiverCityTider
Meeechigan also started playing 14 years before we did.
All of those other teams started playing before us as well except for Texas and OU.
All of those other teams started playing before us as well except for Texas and OU.
Posted on 5/30/21 at 8:21 pm to RiverCityTider
Why do I want to add Pederass State University to this list?
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:00 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Nebraska
We should play them in place of one of the other cupcake games. At least that would be a beating worth watching.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 2:45 pm to PowHound
Always have the most wonder about the Non-Hiring of Bobby Bowden and the Hiring of Bill Curry...
(Yes, the Mike Years were terrible; but there were Circumstances....)
As far as remaining on the list... (remember Bama suffered thru the Mike Years)
(Yes, the Mike Years were terrible; but there were Circumstances....)
As far as remaining on the list... (remember Bama suffered thru the Mike Years)
Posted on 5/31/21 at 8:18 pm to RollTide66
Here is my view on the post Bryant, pre Saban period.
I think Perkins would have eventually won a title at Bama, had Tampa Bay not thrown the bank at him. Ironically, Perkins spoke of expecting and waiting on a Bama counter offer that never came. Apparently, Bama wasn't sold on him as the answer, or felt they were approaching financial territory that wasn't justifiable at the college level.
Regardless, Coach Bryant, due to illness, left Bama in a very depleted condition that Perkins had to recruit his way out of. Thus, no championships.
Curry never did anything noteworthy at Georgia Tech, with the exceptions of a couple of impressive upsets... one against Bama and one against Notre Dame. But he talked a good game, particularly regarding academics, and his polished image won over Joab, who wanted to shed the "football factory" rep.
It wasn't so much that Curry was a terrible coach. He wasn't. He fielded decent teams and was at least competitive against the highest level competition. He's offenses were somewhat innovative, with Homer Smith being a major influence. But he never won over the fan base and his teams were soft by Bama standards.
But the biggest problem with Curry was he was never a qualified candidate for such a prestige position in the first place. Bobby Bowden was the logical choice. And they really didn't belong in the same breath.
His selection over Bowden was a very arrogant and irresponsible move, exceeded only by the time Notre Dame thought they could win by hiring a high school coach.
Then can Stallings and Bama' first title in 13 years. In retrospect, I think Stallings was a mistake. He was a career NFL defensive assistant with a losing stint as HC at Texas A&M. His primary qualification was that he had been Bryant's choice. Bryant has thought Perkins was too abrasive and unlikely to leave the NFL
Stallings was a solid defensive coach and with Bill Oliver, fielded great defenses. But, his offenses were throwbacks and somewhat embarrassing compared the Spurrier offenses and the explosiveness of Miami and FSU We really were schematically disadvantaged throughout the 90s, with many wondering what might have been if Bowden hadn't been shunned
To this day, I credit the great Miami win to Bill Oliver, a defensive genius, who moved the Giants Curry and Copeland to the same side of the line and basically discombobulated Miami's offense.
Even with the victory, Bama threw for like 17 yards and basically played like the 26 rose bowl team on offense
So that was 30 years with one championship, and it was not necessary. It was the result of a) Coach Bryant's declining health in his last few years resulting in a talent deficit, b) imo a terrible hire in Bill Curry and c) the hiring of Stallings in an era when the passing game was becoming predominant, something he knew nothing about.
I think Perkins would have eventually won a title at Bama, had Tampa Bay not thrown the bank at him. Ironically, Perkins spoke of expecting and waiting on a Bama counter offer that never came. Apparently, Bama wasn't sold on him as the answer, or felt they were approaching financial territory that wasn't justifiable at the college level.
Regardless, Coach Bryant, due to illness, left Bama in a very depleted condition that Perkins had to recruit his way out of. Thus, no championships.
Curry never did anything noteworthy at Georgia Tech, with the exceptions of a couple of impressive upsets... one against Bama and one against Notre Dame. But he talked a good game, particularly regarding academics, and his polished image won over Joab, who wanted to shed the "football factory" rep.
It wasn't so much that Curry was a terrible coach. He wasn't. He fielded decent teams and was at least competitive against the highest level competition. He's offenses were somewhat innovative, with Homer Smith being a major influence. But he never won over the fan base and his teams were soft by Bama standards.
But the biggest problem with Curry was he was never a qualified candidate for such a prestige position in the first place. Bobby Bowden was the logical choice. And they really didn't belong in the same breath.
His selection over Bowden was a very arrogant and irresponsible move, exceeded only by the time Notre Dame thought they could win by hiring a high school coach.
Then can Stallings and Bama' first title in 13 years. In retrospect, I think Stallings was a mistake. He was a career NFL defensive assistant with a losing stint as HC at Texas A&M. His primary qualification was that he had been Bryant's choice. Bryant has thought Perkins was too abrasive and unlikely to leave the NFL
Stallings was a solid defensive coach and with Bill Oliver, fielded great defenses. But, his offenses were throwbacks and somewhat embarrassing compared the Spurrier offenses and the explosiveness of Miami and FSU We really were schematically disadvantaged throughout the 90s, with many wondering what might have been if Bowden hadn't been shunned
To this day, I credit the great Miami win to Bill Oliver, a defensive genius, who moved the Giants Curry and Copeland to the same side of the line and basically discombobulated Miami's offense.
Even with the victory, Bama threw for like 17 yards and basically played like the 26 rose bowl team on offense
So that was 30 years with one championship, and it was not necessary. It was the result of a) Coach Bryant's declining health in his last few years resulting in a talent deficit, b) imo a terrible hire in Bill Curry and c) the hiring of Stallings in an era when the passing game was becoming predominant, something he knew nothing about.
This post was edited on 5/31/21 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 5/31/21 at 10:20 pm to RiverCityTider
Good assessment - thanks.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 11:16 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
But the biggest problem with Curry was he was never a qualified candidate for such a prestige position in the first place. Bobby Bowden was the logical choice. And they really didn't belong in the same breath.
His selection over Bowden was a very arrogant and irresponsible move, exceeded only by the time Notre Dame thought they could win by hiring a high school coach.
Bowden at the end of ‘86 wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire. UF had a pretty long winning streak running against him, and they weren’t competitive with Miami either.
Had Perkins left just a year later, Bowden probably would have been the guy.
Posted on 6/1/21 at 12:53 pm to TomRollTideRitter
Go back and relook at the Miami results. He was about 500 against them up to that point.
And in 87, Curry's first year, Bowden went 11-1 and Finished #2 to Miami. He lost to Miami by 1 point that year.
You have to remember that FSU was a basket case before Bowden.
I remember when we played them in the mid seventies they had the nations longest loosing streak.
Bowden was building a powerhouse from 0. It was pretty obvious at the time.
He had to take that team on the road and play at places like An Arbour and South Bend because they wouldn't go to Tallahassee.
I was excited as hell at the prospect of getting him, as were many. Curry was a huge letdown.
"The year was 1981, and the Seminoles’ head coach Bobby Bowden decided to further build Florida State’s brand by challenging 5 of the greatest college football powers in history- in 5 consecutive road games. Even though they only finished with a 6-5 record on the year, FSU turned heads when they went 3-2 at Nebraska, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, and LSU."
By the way, he turned down the LSU job in 1980 when Charlie Mac retired.
And in 87, Curry's first year, Bowden went 11-1 and Finished #2 to Miami. He lost to Miami by 1 point that year.
You have to remember that FSU was a basket case before Bowden.
I remember when we played them in the mid seventies they had the nations longest loosing streak.
Bowden was building a powerhouse from 0. It was pretty obvious at the time.
He had to take that team on the road and play at places like An Arbour and South Bend because they wouldn't go to Tallahassee.
I was excited as hell at the prospect of getting him, as were many. Curry was a huge letdown.
"The year was 1981, and the Seminoles’ head coach Bobby Bowden decided to further build Florida State’s brand by challenging 5 of the greatest college football powers in history- in 5 consecutive road games. Even though they only finished with a 6-5 record on the year, FSU turned heads when they went 3-2 at Nebraska, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, and LSU."
By the way, he turned down the LSU job in 1980 when Charlie Mac retired.
This post was edited on 6/1/21 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 6/1/21 at 1:18 pm to RiverCityTider
Through the 1986 season Bobby Bowden was 4-7 against both Florida and Miami and FSU. He had lost 5 straight to Florida and 3 out of 4 to Miami through the 1986.
While Bobby insists he was insulted he was asked to interview he was not the big time coach he became. Even if he was, can you imagine telling someone "I will NOT interview for the job, just give it to me." At a PUBLIC University no less.
Plus there have been some reports over the years that he did in fact interview for the job, but he bombed it and knew he bombed it to he made up the story about refusing to interview to save face.
While Bobby insists he was insulted he was asked to interview he was not the big time coach he became. Even if he was, can you imagine telling someone "I will NOT interview for the job, just give it to me." At a PUBLIC University no less.
Plus there have been some reports over the years that he did in fact interview for the job, but he bombed it and knew he bombed it to he made up the story about refusing to interview to save face.
Posted on 6/1/21 at 6:23 pm to BamaDude06
He probably figured he had the best team in the country in FSU for the upcoming season, vs a rebuild in Tuscaloosa.
So he's like, don't make me beg when I'm giving up a great position to come home and start over.
Bowden knew what he had and he knew what he was recruiting and what was coming. He didn't need to be grilled by Walter Lewis and compared to 2nd rate coaches with no resume.
What your showing is the same arrogance that cause the 30 year drought. By your reasoning, we should have made Saban interview.
Bowden wasn't Saban. But he was elite, and knowledgeable football people knew it. Curry was nothing but a PR stunt.
So he's like, don't make me beg when I'm giving up a great position to come home and start over.
Bowden knew what he had and he knew what he was recruiting and what was coming. He didn't need to be grilled by Walter Lewis and compared to 2nd rate coaches with no resume.
What your showing is the same arrogance that cause the 30 year drought. By your reasoning, we should have made Saban interview.
Bowden wasn't Saban. But he was elite, and knowledgeable football people knew it. Curry was nothing but a PR stunt.
Posted on 6/1/21 at 9:42 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
By your reasoning, we should have made Saban interview.
Absolutely there should be some form of interview for any position, if anything to make sure you are a cultural fit for a university. Nick Saban I think can fit in at most schools. Dabo Swiney...not so much.
quote:
Bowden wasn't Saban. But he was elite, and knowledgeable football people knew it.
Bobby Bowden was a great coach. He was not elite at the time. The fact he was 8-14 against his biggest in state rivals through 1986 is proof of that. Yes FSU had issues when he took over, but so did Miami. Miami was even on the verge of shutting down their football program in the 1970s and they STILL beat Bowden to a title several times over.
It's all a moot point anyway. If Bowden is hired in 1987 he likely wins a couple of titles at Alabama and Nick Saban doesn't get hired in 2007. It all worked out in the end.
PS I didn't realize this, but did you know Bowden had losing record to both Miami (14-21) and Florida (17-18-1) at FSU
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