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Cecil Hurt on what may be wrong with the defense this year
Posted on 10/7/18 at 11:19 am
Posted on 10/7/18 at 11:19 am
quote:
How many time in the past decade have you seen an Alabama opponent throw a bubble screen or complete a toss to a back coming out of the backfield, only to see a heat-seeking linebacker or safety zoom in and make a sure tackle? How many times have you seen that opponent, facing a third-and-long, fail to convert because of fierce pressure, perhaps even a sack? That didn’t happen much on Saturday.
So what might be the reasons?
Is it simply personnel? The players on Alabama’s first-team defense are very good, but are they as good as some of the stellar defenses of the recent past? Even more tellingly, are there as many of those good players to go around? If there were enough in the preseason, is that still the case without Terrell Lewis (especially), Chris Allen and Daniel Wright? The absence of Lewis and Allen as outside pass rushers seems glaring.
quote:
One wonders, though, just how much Alabama’s new offensive prowess — as popular and wonderful as it is — takes a toll on the defense. A couple of years ago, the common animal kingdom metaphor for Alabama was a python, wrapping around hapless victims and squeezing and kneading them into submission.
That, in large part, meant a time-consuming offense, allowing the defense to rest as all that crushing and kneading was going on. Now, the offense is more like some fierce pack of velociraptors — Hawaiian ones, if you prefer — that hits you so hard and so fast that by the time that you see them coming, they’ve removed your left lung and are coming back for your solar plexus.
It’s great entertainment, and highly effective, but allows little time for oxygen on the defensive sideline. Arkansas ran 71 plays and had almost 33 minutes of possession time. They still couldn’t keep pace, but perhaps a more dangerous offensive opponent could. Arkansas was a play or two away, not from winning, but from at least making things interesting.
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Posted on 10/7/18 at 11:36 am to jatebe
I was gonna post this same theory in a thread last week.
The offense is scoring so quickly that the defense that used to rely on the a ball controlling offense is just on the field a lot more than past years and opposing teams are thus getting more opportunities to get yards and plays.
If my math is right, thru the 1st 5 games compared to last years first 5 games, teams are getting about 12 more plays a game this year.
The offense is scoring so quickly that the defense that used to rely on the a ball controlling offense is just on the field a lot more than past years and opposing teams are thus getting more opportunities to get yards and plays.
If my math is right, thru the 1st 5 games compared to last years first 5 games, teams are getting about 12 more plays a game this year.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 11:36 am to jatebe
Well with all things considered, we have shown how quickly one can adapt/ become a big 12 team. ??
Posted on 10/7/18 at 11:46 am to Gj4Bama
quote:
how quickly one can adapt/ become a big 12 team
that's ridiculous. Some of you guys are totally impatient.
In any event, as I noted on the score board...
That's where the rules and tendencies of the game have taken us. It's also the kind of offenses the elite skill position kids want, or at least the qbs and wrs. Saban railed against it for a good long time. Tried to dissuade the rules like linemen blocking 3 yards downfield, which makes it hard to call on RPO pop passes. Eventually, he knew it wasn't going to change, so he changed. You have to give credit to the guy. He'll adapt to whatever is working for whatever reasons, and he nearly always makes it to his own advantage. Now he has perhaps the best quarterback college football has seen in the RPO offense. Advantages and disadvantages to any scheme.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:00 pm to John Milner
Yes it is ridiculous and I wasn’t saying that as being serious or a good thing. Lol
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:11 pm to Gj4Bama
oh, got you
We're not a great defense right now, but we'll get better by the end of the year. I am convinced of that.
We're not a great defense right now, but we'll get better by the end of the year. I am convinced of that.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:12 pm to jatebe
So Cecil Hurts is trying to convince us that running 71 plays a game is too much to ask for our defense?
Maybe if some of the DBs kept their concentration and our ILBs knew what they were doing there would be less?
Maybe someone should remind Cecil that our starters havent played a full game yet.. wven on defense.
Maybe if some of the DBs kept their concentration and our ILBs knew what they were doing there would be less?
Maybe someone should remind Cecil that our starters havent played a full game yet.. wven on defense.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:13 pm to Gj4Bama
quote:
Well with all things considered, we have shown how quickly one can adapt/ become a big 12 team. ??
We aren't a Big 12 team. Yesterday's game was 58-17 with 12 minutes to go in the game. Arky got an additional 14 points and 100 yards- including 1/3rd of their rushing total for the game - in those last 12 minutes.
It doesn't make anyone happy that they got those points & yards, but perspective matters. We aren't playing B12 shootouts. The defense is still getting stops, they're just giving up more than we're used to in the past.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:13 pm to jatebe
quote:
That, in large part, meant a time-consuming offense, allowing the defense to rest as all that crushing and kneading was going on.
A 3-and-out offense is not a time-consuming one. That's what led to Clemson running 99 plays and gassing the 2016 defense.
The offense the two previous years has been completely feast -or-famine, so it is bizarre that Hurt is acting like it was a methodical offense that allowed the defense to rest.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:18 pm to JustGetItRight
I think most fans are a little jarred by that because they're used to the back-ups on defense giving up maybe 3-7 points when they're on the field in the second half. However, you can tell there is a SIGNIFICANT drop off between the first team defense and the second team defense. We all started to notice it last week against Louisiana-Lafayette and we noticed it against yesterday against Arkansas.
Obviously work needs to be done and obviously the defense isn't as good as it was in years past, which frightens some of us because we aren't used to being dominate on the offensive side of the ball while being merely Top 15-20 on the defensive side. It's just a little disconcerting giving up so many points and yards late in the game.
Obviously work needs to be done and obviously the defense isn't as good as it was in years past, which frightens some of us because we aren't used to being dominate on the offensive side of the ball while being merely Top 15-20 on the defensive side. It's just a little disconcerting giving up so many points and yards late in the game.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:20 pm to MrBiriwa
quote:
If my math is right, thru the 1st 5 games compared to last years first 5 games, teams are getting about 12 more plays a game this year.
It is hard to draw any meaningful data from the games so far since the opponents have been so over-matched and football is a such a situational game.
The only meaningful data will be gleaned against teams like LSU, MSU, Auburn, UGA etc.
So far things are looking very promising as an offense that can distribute the ball to blue chip athletes will work against anyone while the offense we ran the two previous years was built on one player being able to "out athlete" an entire defense.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:21 pm to JeffAtlanta
quote:
A 3-and-out offense is not a time-consuming one. That's what led to Clemson running 99 plays and gassing the 2016 defense.
A to the Men on that point
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:21 pm to jatebe
quote:
The players on Alabama’s first-team defense are very good, but are they as good as some of the stellar defenses of the recent past?
In terms of production ready talent, this defense is probably in the bottom end of depth / talent during Saban's tenure.
quote:
So Cecil Hurts is trying to convince us that running 71 plays a game is too much to ask for our defense?
I think the better take is that it is "too much for this defense"
quote:
They still couldn’t keep pace, but perhaps a more dangerous offensive opponent could.
Usain Bolt lost races in his career too, but I'd never bet against him
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:21 pm to JeffAtlanta
quote:
A 3-and-out offense is not a time-consuming one.
Neither is an offense that scores in three or four plays. The result is virtually the same.
quote:
The offense the two previous years has been completely feast -or-famine, so it is bizarre that Hurt is acting like it was a methodical offense that allowed the defense to rest.
We were much more ball control in 2016 and 2017 than we are in 2018. In just about every game in those seasons, we dominated time of possession.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:24 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
A 3-and-out offense is not a time-consuming one.
Neither is an offense that scores in three or four plays. The result is virtually the same.
what? Since a quick touchdown scores 7 points and immediately impacts the other team, and 3 and out means a punt and giving the ball to the other team, it isn't at all the same.
"We were much more ball control in 2016 and 2017 than we are in 2018. In just about every game in those seasons, we dominated time of possession."
So you'd prefer the offense of 2016 and 2017 to this offense because we score too quickly?
Well hell. You can't argue with that. Or at least, it's pointless to do it.
This post was edited on 10/7/18 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:26 pm to MrBiriwa
I did post this theory last week.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:28 pm to YStar
quote:
So Cecil Hurts is trying to convince us that running 71 plays a game is too much to ask for our defense?
Yeah, if it was 85 or 90 and they looked good for the first 70 of them that'd be one thing, but they looked like total shite from the start against Arkansas.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:29 pm to John Milner
Tua will be around only another year and a half, and scoring these many points this quickly will probably not be something to worry about.
geeze us chreest
geeze us chreest
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:29 pm to John Milner
No. I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that there's a trade off. When you, as an offense, are scoring a touchdown every 90-120 seconds, it's giving your defense less time to rest on the sidelines. That could (potentially) lead to an opponent scoring more points due to defensive fatigue.
However, as someone brought up in a previous post, the score was 58-17 at the start of the fourth quarter when the back-ups came in to play. The first team defense, while they gave up some yards, did their job holding Arkansas's offense out of the end zone for the most part. The final two touchdowns came when the scrubs were in the game.
However, as someone brought up in a previous post, the score was 58-17 at the start of the fourth quarter when the back-ups came in to play. The first team defense, while they gave up some yards, did their job holding Arkansas's offense out of the end zone for the most part. The final two touchdowns came when the scrubs were in the game.
Posted on 10/7/18 at 12:31 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Neither is an offense that scores in three or four plays. The result is virtually the same.
One results in 6 points, a scoring review timeout, an extra point attempt and a TV timeout.
A 3-and-out leads to zero points and only occasionally to any sort of time-out.
Regardless, let's not pretend that the offenses of the past two years were "ball control" as they had absolutely no real control of anything against a good defense.
Time of Possession is such a silly stat anyway - a 3-and-out with 3 inbounds QB runs could consume more "game clock" than a 10 play methodical scoring drive that resulted in clock stoppage after every play. Which do would tire out the oppositions defense more? Which would give Alabama's defense more rest?
The stats that really matter (but are rarely reported) are "average points per possession" and "average plays per possession".
This post was edited on 10/7/18 at 12:45 pm
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