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re: Aaron Murray breaks down Milroe vs USF
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:08 pm to Ten Bears
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:08 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
Now you’re just making stuff up to justify your narrative. A qb throwing to a spot where he is anticipating the WR to be is the ultimate form of precision.
Yes. In fact the precision and timing it takes at the NFL level is nothing short of miraculous. Everything from the amount of steps the QB drops then climbs, to the exact spot the WR makes his break all have to be absolutely perfect to complete a pass at that level. It truly is remarkable the amount of precision involved. NFL QB's rarely ever get to throw to an "open" receiver when the ball is let go.
I think YStar means well, and I should have just smiled and kept my mouth shut yesterday, (I apologize YStar) but I am truly frustrated with Bama (the premiere program in the country) having this tendency to sign project QB's, and then watching the offense be handcuffed by limited play at QB. There is simply no reason especially in the era of transfers to ever have a title contending team fall short because the QB can't do enough to move the chains or protect the football. Even the great Jalen Hurts who probably became the most improved player I've ever seen over the course of his career was so limited in college he cost Bama almost two titles and not even the greatest defense of my lifetime could save him.
For every Tua and Bryce there is an AJ or Mac, or Coker. Tua and Bryce won 1 title combined. AJ, Mac, and Coker won 4
Carlton youre up for nicest guy on the board this year. Sending you a Christmas card in the mail.
Santa, you were further out of line than me, and your painting me a troll for stating facts, and saying I post nothing but negativity for 10 years is flat out false and unwarranted. You can look my post up for any Championship or Heisman winner the past ten years, and you will find nothing but rainbows and sunshine. If you want someone to bury their head in the sand because the team wins when the clock hits 00:00 I'm not your guy. CNS taught me that- take it up with him.
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Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:08 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
Murray also doesn't think Thorne played that poorly. Take what he says with a huge grain of salt. He always sides with the QB.
Couple things Murray fails to mention:
A: Milroe NEVER climbs the pocket. He stands directly in the bullseye of the rush lanes, and the OT's can not use that lane to direct traffic harmlessly out of the way because Milroe stands dead center of it ! What can the OT's do if the QB will not climb the pocket ? Hold them, pancake them, or perfectly stonewall them for 5 seconds ? Step up in the pocket, or move the pocket, but you absolutely can not stand in the bullseye all game long and expect to not come away with grass stains.
B: The offense is running 4 verts because CKD has "built the offense for Milroes strengths." He says point blank even in this weeks presser "we ask Jalen what he's comfortable doing and what he's not comfortable doing." 4 Verts is Jalens perfect dumbed down easy read easy throw offense. It doesn't take long for a professional D Coordinator sitting opposite side to know he's got time to bring the house.
C: About WR separation - The wide receivers are running those routes over and over and how often do they catch a ball ? Does anyone remember seeing how pissed off the WR's were during Hurts time ? Openly frustrated in the middle of games. When the DB's are protecting against the simplest of routes over and over how exactly would they get separation ? Who runs a homerun route every down at any level of football and successfully sustains an offense that way ? Somebody playing Madden ?
D: We know DeBoer runs a much more complicated system with very creative route trees, but we are not seeing those - this offense is built around Milroe. CKD said that was what he was going to do from day 1 and here we are. Those WR's better just love them some track because it's gonna be a long season of streaking down field and hoping to see the ball one day. At this level of ball the scheme has to help get separation. You cant expect a WR to just run past a D1 scholarship CB.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:12 pm to UltimaParadox
quote:
As expected watching it again some obvious issues
1. O-line gets whipped badly in the passing game a lot
2. WRs dont get a lot of separation
3. Probably due to down and distance but basically offense is 4 verts
4. Jalen missed a few throws, but it really was not as bad as it seemed
If the O-line plays this bad every week, we will not win much with whoever is playing QB. Obviously things will change with the starters back in
After four pages of bickering, it all comes back to this original post. Jalen, when he had the opportunity, did not always make the play he should have. However, success was going to be very hard to come by given some of the conditions he was playing under.
Everything else is just noise. Let's see what happens at Wisconsin on Saturday.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:16 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
Now you’re just making stuff up to justify your narrative. A qb throwing to a spot where he is anticipating the WR to be is the ultimate form of precision.
Again some if you are just showing me what you understand.
Precision is throwing to an exact place. When you are throwing a WR open you are throwing the ball in an AREA and need to believe the WR will make a play on the ball.
I'm not going to argue these points. At this point it's obvious those who actually have knowledge about the game and just want us to win and those who don't.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:49 pm to YStar
What I think is obvious after 1 year and 2 games as a starter is that Jalen has some very definite weaknesses as QB. His issues from last year remain. Worst case scenario for Bama is that Jalen plays like he did last game and remains the starter, which means not off to the NFL and we get him for a 3rd year. Hoping like crazy he turns it around because that version of him puts Bama at a minimum of 2-3 losses.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:51 pm to YStar
quote:
Precision is throwing to an exact place. When you are throwing a WR open you are throwing the ball in an AREA and need to believe the WR will make a play on the ball.
The catch radius is the same whether it's sitting still or moving. You're using semantics to try to argue that it's more precise to shoot a target that's sitting still versus the same target that's moving. No amount of word play can win that argument for you.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 12:53 pm to Diego Ricardo
quote:
Probably due to down and distance but basically offense is 4 verts
What I don't understand - if you're getting blown-up, up front, why all of the vertical routes which take longer to setup. If the qb has no pocket and has to scramble almost immediately, shouldn't there be routes to compliment?
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:23 pm to captainFid
quote:
What I don't understand - if you're getting blown-up, up front, why all of the vertical routes which take longer to setup. If the qb has no pocket and has to scramble almost immediately, shouldn't there be routes to compliment?
There has to be a good reason. I don't know Xs and Os well enough to know what the reason is. Tw1sTeD might be able to shed light. It seems like it was a problem last year too. You could argue that the common denominator is Milroe, but its hard to believe that Milroe can't execute a quick throw or hot read to beat the blitz, or that he is so bad at it they won't even let him attempt it. Its seems like if that were the case then there is no way he'd be starting. Maybe he can't read the pre-snap D, but again, hard to believe that he wouldn't be able to comprehend the coaches telling him "if Mike does this at the line then do this."
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:16 pm to PowHound
Yeah, Milroe started off with some poor decision-making and seemed to be having some technique issues.
But . . .
1. His OL was shite - I mean really next-level bad (for whatever reason the coaches made this happen). The culmination was having his brilliant long run called back. So, in my opinion, we was trying to make plays by holding the ball too long, taking bad sacks, not throwing the ball away, etc.
2. He took coaching well during the game. Period. He didn’t jump up and down on the sideline - he did what the coaches want - go to the next play. He started throwing the ball away. He found some shorter routes open and let play-makers start making plays.
And . . . the kid is a helluva leader - and a great ambassador to the school. I like him just for that AND I don’t think we have anyone else who is anywhere as talented or can lead this team the way he does.
But . . .
1. His OL was shite - I mean really next-level bad (for whatever reason the coaches made this happen). The culmination was having his brilliant long run called back. So, in my opinion, we was trying to make plays by holding the ball too long, taking bad sacks, not throwing the ball away, etc.
2. He took coaching well during the game. Period. He didn’t jump up and down on the sideline - he did what the coaches want - go to the next play. He started throwing the ball away. He found some shorter routes open and let play-makers start making plays.
And . . . the kid is a helluva leader - and a great ambassador to the school. I like him just for that AND I don’t think we have anyone else who is anywhere as talented or can lead this team the way he does.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:51 pm to Teague
quote:
The catch radius is the same whether it's sitting still or moving. You're using semantics to try to argue that it's more precise to shoot a target that's sitting still versus the same target that's moving. No amount of word play can win that argument for you.
When you throw to an area in man-coverage you aren't throwing to the specific players range, you are throwing in the range of the area in hopes the WR makes the adjustments out of his break and makes a play.
This isn't precision.
Precision is throwing through zone-coverage and needing to hit a specific point to avoid an pass breakup or interception.
You have to be precise throwing to a WR in zone and WR don't run their full routes that aren't posts and clearouts. WR sit in soft spots in the zone and the QB needs to be precise in his throws to beat the zone.
This isn't what happened against USF.
They were mainly in man-coverage and our QB didn't need to be precise, he just needed to put an accurate enough ball in the area and trust his WR to make the plays.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 4:15 pm to YStar
quote:
he just needed to put an accurate enough ball in the area and trust his WR to make the plays
Therein lies part of the problem. Our big time playmaker is 17 years old & Prentice & Law show flashes but don't get open consistently. I was excited about Bernard after spring, but if you watch OP again, almost every time AM is talking about not getting separation, he's talking about Bernard. He was out there running routes every single pass play & has 4 catches for 50 yds to show for it. We need more out of our #1 WR.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 4:21 pm to AlterDWI
Yeah all that is true. We honestly shouldn't expect Ryan Williams to easily beat very physical DBs but #5 is a vet he has to get separation.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 4:27 pm to YStar
quote:
When you throw to an area in man-coverage you aren't throwing to the specific players range, you are throwing in the range of the area in hopes the WR makes the adjustments out of his break and makes a play.
Lol, no. You're just leading the receiver, the same as wing shooting with a shotgun.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 4:43 pm to Teague
I think the difference there is you have to anticipate the bird who likely is not trying to catch your bullet
When you are leading a receiver and hitting them in stride I believe that is percision just like the wing shooting because you are gauging a lot of things to get that shot/throw right.
When you are throwing to a predetermined area after a certain number of seconds and your receiver is suppose to be there around that time where they can catch in their frame I don't think that is percision passing or at least you don't need to be as precise.
To put it a different way, when you throw to a crossing route or a post the QB has to be the more precise person because he has to put it on a moving target and gauge everything.
When you run a timing route the receiver is the one who needs to be more precise cause he has to run the right yardage, the right route, beat the defender, get to the spot and catch the ball within his frame all on time.
When you are leading a receiver and hitting them in stride I believe that is percision just like the wing shooting because you are gauging a lot of things to get that shot/throw right.
When you are throwing to a predetermined area after a certain number of seconds and your receiver is suppose to be there around that time where they can catch in their frame I don't think that is percision passing or at least you don't need to be as precise.
To put it a different way, when you throw to a crossing route or a post the QB has to be the more precise person because he has to put it on a moving target and gauge everything.
When you run a timing route the receiver is the one who needs to be more precise cause he has to run the right yardage, the right route, beat the defender, get to the spot and catch the ball within his frame all on time.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 5:14 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 6:28 pm to Milticket
quote:
USF is a good team
Yes
quote:
and will beat Miami.
Probably not.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 7:00 pm to PowHound
quote:
A: Milroe NEVER climbs the pocket.
Agree.
quote:
B: The offense is running 4 verts because CKD has "built the offense for Milroes strengths." He says point blank even in this weeks presser "we ask Jalen what he's comfortable doing and what he's not comfortable doing." 4 Verts is Jalens perfect dumbed down easy read easy throw offense. It doesn't take long for a professional D Coordinator sitting opposite side to know he's got time to bring the house.
Tommy Rees did a much better job of mixing things up from Tennessee on than I’ve seen from our playcaller YTD.
Now I’d argue that the OL is operating at an 1H 2023 level as opposed to where it was for the 2H of the season.
With an OL as bad as we’ve had at times it’s almost impossible to scheme around the deficiencies. But when Proctor gets back we damn sure need to see more out of both the OC as well as the QB position.
quote:
C: About WR separation - The wide receivers are running those routes over and over and how often do they catch a ball ? Does anyone remember seeing how pissed off the WR's were during Hurts time ?
The WRs playing with Hurts were pissed because they were open and not getting the ball. I agree the scheme is horrific right now and USF was holding all night outside, but you can’t complain if you can’t separate. We have one guy getting open consistently right now and he’s 17.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 7:56 pm to UltimaParadox
There are times Milroe needs to speed up. There are far more times where the play develops way too slow. And this has nothing to do with Milroe. This has been a persistent thing since Jamo tore his knee up against Georgia. Remember that game? The Heisman winner could find no place to go with the football. Remember the following year? Bryce had to dance and twist and contort on seemingly every dropback just to get the ball out. Milroe had to do the same thing for the same reason, only far less gracefully last year.
I don't know the answer. Scheme? Players? Both? Something else? This Saturday is probably the last weekend where we have 40 of the 50 best athletes on the field. Somebody is going to have to create separation. Kendrick Law has 1 catch on 3 targets. I think he's the most complete receiver of the bunch (short, intermediate, deep, speed, experience, you can throw it to him or hand it to him). Curious what his role will be this week and next especially since Prentice and Bernard are essentially the same player. We know what #2 is. Law needs to be a somebody.
I don't know the answer. Scheme? Players? Both? Something else? This Saturday is probably the last weekend where we have 40 of the 50 best athletes on the field. Somebody is going to have to create separation. Kendrick Law has 1 catch on 3 targets. I think he's the most complete receiver of the bunch (short, intermediate, deep, speed, experience, you can throw it to him or hand it to him). Curious what his role will be this week and next especially since Prentice and Bernard are essentially the same player. We know what #2 is. Law needs to be a somebody.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 10:23 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
why all of the vertical routes
I have to think our playbook was on vanilla mode. There was basically nothing creative and when Pritchett came in, that took over. We will see I guess.
Posted on 9/11/24 at 3:05 am to CrimsonBoz
The vanilla offense excuse doesn't really work here. 13-14 in the fourth and significant offensive struggles, you open the playbook for that to some degree.
The reality is we just run a vanilla offense with Milroe. Same reason we moved to flood concepts last season (simplified reads by cutting the field in half) and taking read options out of the equation.
The reality is we just run a vanilla offense with Milroe. Same reason we moved to flood concepts last season (simplified reads by cutting the field in half) and taking read options out of the equation.
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