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re: OT: Corona Panic 2020
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:06 pm to fibonaccisquared
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:06 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Just for a bit of clarity, the average life expectancy in 1917 (the year prior to the Spanis Flu) was only ~51. I think less than 5% of the total population was over the age of 65. Many of them were actually socially distancing before it was cool...
That is a good point re: lower life expectancy at that time. Nonetheless, the fact that the virus was especially deadly - especially in the second wave - in the healthy 20 to 40 age group is significant. It's now thought that it basically killed those with the strongest immune responses (because of the cytokine storm).
There's a famous case study of St. Louis (shut down social gatherings very early on) versus Philadelphia (which was resistant to shutting down).
"Philadelphia, for instance, hosted a 200,000-person parade about 10 days after they saw their first deadly case of the “Spanish flu” in September 1918. St. Louis was also scheduled to hold a parade around this time, but they canceled the event due to the pandemic. Unsurprisingly, Philadelphia would wind up with a death rate more than twice that of St. Louis: The deaths due to the virus were estimated to be about 385 people per 100,000 in St Louis, compared to 807 per 100,000 in Philadelphia during the first six months — the deadliest period — of the pandemic."
1
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:12 pm to Lucius Clay
quote:Nobody knew what this thing was early on. The Dems were downplaying it even worse, but you don't criticize them for it.
Where did I say Trump caused deaths? There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike Trump that have nothing to do with COVID-19.
It is true that he minimized the outbreak and made moronic statements when it was first brought to the national attention, and these statements are well documented. Just as "liberals" might have their own agendas, we can be fairly sure that Trump and "conservatives" have agendas as well.
Cuomo ignored the travel ban, but nothing from you about that.
The WHO was telling the world this thing wasn't that bad, but Trump is the focus of your ire.
And more than anything, you know damn well that Trump was smack in the middle of a bullshite impeachment trial, so if he had played the virus up and made a whole bunch of social distancing and quarantine mandates early on, he would have been crucified 10x worse.
But you ignore all that just to take jabs at him. How do you not see the double-standards and hypocrisy? How do you not acknowledge he'd have been fried if he had acted early?
They were already lambasting him over the travel ban, while they promoted going to parades and festivals, but you're suggesting Trump is THE derelict in this?
quote:Prior to this, the economy was smoking.
One could argue that Trump is only interested in the economy as it relates to his reelection, not because he's so interested in how the average person is doing.
What solutions was anyone else suggesting that would have made things better than what Trump did?
Can you name anything he's done that's made him more wealthy since he became President? How is he taking advantage of this at our expense? Aside from national debt going up (which is vastly out of his control), please explain where we are all worse off, and where we'd be better off if he weren't re-elected.
quote:False.
By the way, don't want to surprise you but a solid 50% of the population of this country hates Trump. Sounds like you are living in a bubble or have an intolerance problem.
If you are still believing the media and their polls, I can't help you, because you're just a fool.
I showed you one easy instance of the media lying to you and everyone trying to fabricate a false narrative about something as simple as Koi fish. But somehow you believe them about everything else.
And that's the problem. There's tens of millions of people just like you who have beliefs and opinions that were influenced by exaggerated or purely bullshite false narratives manufactured by the media.
Aside from identity/intersectional politics, surface-level ideological differences, accusations of bullshite like racism/sexism/xenophobia/etc, etc, and dozens of other irrelevant asinine attempts to shame and demean the guy, the fact remains that damn near everything in this country was on an upward trajectory of improvement as a direct result of Trump's policies.
And you'd have to be an absolute braindead buffoon to think that half this country didn't like it or him for creating that trajectory.
Think, man. Use your head. Wake... the... frick... up.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:24 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
And you'd have to be an absolute braindead buffoon to think that half this country didn't like it or him for creating that trajectory.
So by your logic, he would have gotten -- or certainly WILL in the next election -- get what, about 75% of the popular vote?
Trump is amoral and pathologically dishonest. His track record as a con artist back dates back to the 70's. Spend an hour watching this guy at one of his rallies and actually listening to him. He's marvelous at catering to the angry and those who think the "deep state" and various minority groups have screwed them. His main method is spewing insults, lies, and self-aggrandizing statements.
But I don't want to get off-track, since I've been told that this thread is only about COVID-19.
This post was edited on 4/21/20 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:28 pm to Buzz Killington
quote:I'm not arguing with that at all. I agree 1000%.
Neither the Republicans or Democrats are on your side. Both high ranking members of their parties will do anything to enrich themselves. Look no further than Dick Cheney and the "War on Terror". His oil field service company Halliburton was awarded contracts from the US military which they profited billions off of. Which of course, similar to Hillary who destabilizes Libya, suffered no consequences. If they can make a profit, they'll have no problem fricking you over. Because we, the American people, do not hold our politicians responsible for anything.
The Establishment Repubs are just as bad as the Dems.
But Constitutional Conservative/Anti-Collectivist/Free Market Capitalist/Populist/Nationalist/Anti-Interventionist ideals are still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All Progressive ideals, and even a good portion of Classic Liberal ideals (however there are definitely some damn good Liberal ideals that exist), too.
I detest every politician who doesn't agree with all of that, no matter which side they're on.
The lines are blurred these days and we're forced to vote for the least worse. Sucks, but it's either that or sit on your hands and do nothing while these assholes ruin everything faster.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 1:57 pm to Lucius Clay
quote:There's 350 million people in this country and around 220 million of them are eligible to vote, and yet only 127 million voted in 2016.
So by your logic, he would have gotten -- or certainly WILL in the next election -- get what, about 75% of the popular vote?
Trump is amoral and pathologically dishonest. His track record as a con artist back dates back to the 70's. Spend an hour watching this guy at one of his rallies and actually listening to him. He's marvelous at catering to the angry and those who think the "deep state" and various minority groups have screwed them. His main method is spewing insults, lies, and self-aggrandizing statements.
Whatever the vote turns out to be is not a full representation of the beliefs and attitudes of the actual public.
Even Harvard confirmed the media is over 92% negative to Trump, and you're suggesting this has no effect on the voting public?
You think even 1/10th of the voters out there actually do due diligence and search for objective facts rather than just accepting what the media tells them?
C'mon, man. Just look at you. You're a textbook case of zero independent thought.
And again, if Trump is such a con artist and so dishonest, please tell us what he's done since he got in office that has made things worse for us.
Something he is directly and singly responsible for. A policy he made that benefited him and hurt us. And, who on the other side proposed a solution that is unquestionably better for us while benefiting none of those evil collectivists.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:00 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
And again, if Trump is such a con artist and so dishonest, please tell us what he's done since he got in office that has made things worse for us.
Something he is directly and singly responsible for. A policy he made that benefited him and hurt us. And, who on the other side proposed a solution that is unquestionably better for us while benefiting none of those evil collectivists.
I don't know if he can supply any evidence to this or not. What I do know is you won't believe him if he does.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:02 pm to Buzz Killington
quote:
Look no further than Dick Cheney and the "War on Terror". His oil field service company Halliburton was awarded contracts from the US military which they profited billions off of
Dick Cheney owned Halliburton when 9/11 kicked off decades of war in the middle east?
No.
Dick Cheney orchestrated 9/11 so Halliburton could profit?
No.
Dick Cheney doctored UN Security Council violations by Iraq to justify lifting the ceasefire, and went in along with the UN?
No.
Let me ask you an open-ended question- who should the US have awarded the Halliburton contracts to, instead of Halliburton? How many companies in the US actually do what Halliburton does, at the scale that Halliburton does it, and could actually perform to the scope of deliverables on those contracts? Do you know the answer?
No.
They're all bad! is so intellectually lazy. There are very distinct philosophical, foundational, and operational differences between the two parties. You know this, right?
[No?]
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:05 pm to Lucius Clay
quote:
"Philadelphia, for instance, hosted a 200,000-person parade about 10 days after they saw their first deadly case of the “Spanish flu” in September 1918. St. Louis was also scheduled to hold a parade around this time, but they canceled the event due to the pandemic. Unsurprisingly, Philadelphia would wind up with a death rate more than twice that of St. Louis: The deaths due to the virus were estimated to be about 385 people per 100,000 in St Louis, compared to 807 per 100,000 in Philadelphia during the first six months — the deadliest period — of the pandemic."
Weird they would cancel a parade due to a flu pandemic when the flu wasn't even discovered until 1933.
Seems like a bullshitty story. You got a link?
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:14 pm to retooc
quote:Hyperbole.
I don't know if he can supply any evidence to this or not. What I do know is you won't believe him if he does.
If he says something like, "Healthcare!", it won't be a matter of me believing him, it'll be me being able to EASILY argue why that's a bullshite claim.
Or it'll be something like, "He tried to have G-7 at one of his resorts!", which again can be shot down with extreme ease.
The only reason people mention shite like that is because they are ignorant to the details, and this would actually be proof the only place they get their information is from certain big name media.
But again, this is a guy that he insists is a dishonest crook who is so bad... at something... that he needs ousted from the Presidency.
I'd like to know what that something is, precisely what he's supposedly done, and how exactly it's supposedly benefited Trump while hurting us or our future.
I mean there should be dozens of examples, right? They should just flow off the tongue without hardly thinking, right?
Meanwhile, Hillary pays for a bullshite dossier full of lies designed to get a duly elected President impeached, and this guy is calling me crazy for suggesting Hillary was corrupt and dirty.
But you go on defending him.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:20 pm to deeprig9
Cheney said we would be in Iraq for weeks...at most for months.
The administration said that Iraqi oil would pay for the war. US taxpayers paid for it.
The administration said that Iraqi oil would pay for rebuilding Iraqi. US taxpayers paid for it.
Iraq wasn't rebuilt. The oil money was stolen. The money that taxpayers provided was stolen.
The Iraq war was a massive theft. The Iraqis and the US citizens were fleeced at the cost of 900,000 lives minimum.
Before the war the Iraqis were selling barrels of oil for $27. Bush and Cheney sold Iraqi oil for $90 per barrel.
The administration said that Iraqi oil would pay for the war. US taxpayers paid for it.
The administration said that Iraqi oil would pay for rebuilding Iraqi. US taxpayers paid for it.
Iraq wasn't rebuilt. The oil money was stolen. The money that taxpayers provided was stolen.
The Iraq war was a massive theft. The Iraqis and the US citizens were fleeced at the cost of 900,000 lives minimum.
Before the war the Iraqis were selling barrels of oil for $27. Bush and Cheney sold Iraqi oil for $90 per barrel.
This post was edited on 4/21/20 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:26 pm to Whiznot
quote:
Bush and Cheney sold Iraqi oil for $90 per barrel.
Bush and Cheney set the price? Did you hear this in a Rage Against The Machine lyric?
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:29 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
And again, if Trump is such a con artist and so dishonest, please tell us what he's done since he got in office that has made things worse for us.
He gets to play golf on the taxpayer's dime and I don't!!!! Also traffic in Atlanta sucked a couple times in the last 6 months when he came to town...while he got to cruise 85MPH down the interstate. Bastard!!!!
Went right by me off 400/Lenox too
This post was edited on 4/21/20 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 4/21/20 at 2:50 pm to Whiznot
Let me stop you right there chief. The Iraqis wasn’t fleeced by Americans, they fleeced the Americans. We did ops around a pipeline 2 whole days out of the 2 years I spent there. Stop acting like we had ships leaving that country full of their oil because it’s simply not true. With all the redevelopment money and construction money we poured into that country it could have been completely rebuilt by now but between incompetence and corruption they can’t seems to do anything to help themselves. I’m just glad we left before we got suckered into rebuilding the Mosul Dam.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:15 pm to Lucius Clay
quote:
One could argue that Trump is only interested in the economy as it relates to his reelection, not because he's so interested in how the average person is doing.
One could argue that, but would they have to be exclusive? I mean, couldn't Trump be happy that the economy is doing fine so people are working and so he can be reelected?
On the other hand, why would the Dems want a bad economy other than to sink Trumps ability to use the economy to be reelected?
quote:Based upon what?
By the way, don't want to surprise you but a solid 50% of the population of this country hates Trump.
quote:
Sounds like you are living in a bubble or have an intolerance problem.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:22 pm to Whiznot
quote:
Bush and Cheney sold Iraqi oil for $90 per barrel.
What were the hell did you get this?
You really want to talk about curroption from the highest levels? How bout the blanent bribes and pay for play from the
Clinton foundation
LINK
How bout the fortune Al Gore made after his VP days were over $2 million in '02 to $500 million in '18 LINK
Obama his wife and Biden are all just getting started and Hunter Biden as already made a fortune from Ukraine and China.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:26 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Weird they would cancel a parade due to a flu pandemic when the flu wasn't even discovered until 1933.
Lolwut... You do realize that you can observe a pandemic without having the ability to attribute it to an identified virus or bacteria, right?
Rather lengthy read on the topic: LINK
There's probably a better link for the difference between Philly and St Louis, but this one should do: LINK
This post was edited on 4/21/20 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:28 pm to retooc
quote:
I don't know if he can supply any evidence to this or not. What I do know is you won't believe him if he does.
Well, he is asking for an opinion, which is always dangerous. However, I did not vote for Trump....or Hillary.
But I probably will vote for Trump in the coming election. Other than being confrontational, and tweeting way too much (which has actually been beneficial for him) I like a lot of the things he has done. He rolled back bad policies and trade agreements previous administrations got us into, which is a plus. The economy, as a result was exploding until Corona Virus set in, and that certainly wasn't his fault. I would be willing to bet he can right the economy, too.
All, in all I have been much happier with what he has done than I thought I would be. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. Have we ever had a perfect President? Absolutely not. But from what I can see, he has been better than anybody we have had in a long, long time.
And yes....I think our country has gotten stronger since he has been in office.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:32 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Dick Cheney owned Halliburton when 9/11 kicked off decades of war in the middle east?
No.
No, but he had stocks in the company during the war that were worth up to 8 million. You are fool if you believe he wasn't profiting off this.
quote:
Dick Cheney orchestrated 9/11 so Halliburton could profit?
No.
Did I say this? Do you have reading comprehension skills?
No
quote:
Let me ask you an open-ended question- who should the US have awarded the Halliburton contracts to, instead of Halliburton? How many companies in the US actually do what Halliburton does, at the scale that Halliburton does it, and could actually perform to the scope of deliverables on those contracts? Do you know the answer?
No.
Let me ask you an open-ended question? Is it suspicious to you that the only company capable of doing what Halliburton does (most likely untrue) is run by former CEO and current VP of the US. This VP also happens to be pushing for a war that will make Halliburton billions. Do you see something strange here?
quote:
Dick Cheney doctored UN Security Council violations by Iraq to justify lifting the ceasefire, and went in along with the UN?
No.
I'm not sure why you posted this. But, Cheney did lie to the American public about Iraq having Weapons of Mass Destruction. There's no other way to put it, he and Bush lied to Americans. Does it upset you that his lies killed thousands of Iraqis and American soldiers.?
quote:
They're all bad! is so intellectually lazy. There are very distinct philosophical, foundational, and operational differences between the two parties. You know this, right?
[No?]
Yes, they are both terrible parties that on average do not represent the interests of the American people, rather the corporations who buy them.
Also the post about intellectual laziness is interesting coming from someone who said that the Democrats want to destroy the country in an earlier post. How nuanced you are!
By the I voted for Trump, because I realized how horrible and corrupt Hillary was. So please don't don't reply to be about the evil Clinton Foundation or some other thing like that. Are political alignments are probably similar.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:36 pm to Buzz Killington
I am about to make you look real dumb when I get back to my computer. You have until then to edit.
Tick tock.
Tick tock.
Posted on 4/21/20 at 3:39 pm to RedFive
quote:
Stop acting like we had ships leaving that country full of their oil because it’s simply not true. With all the redevelopment money and construction money we poured into that country it could have been completely rebuilt by now but between incompetence and corruption they can’t seems to do anything to help themselves. I’m just glad we left before we got suckered into rebuilding the Mosul Dam.
A lot of people think we get most of our oil from OPEC Countries. Fact is, outside of oil that is domestically drilled, we get more from Canada than anywhere else.
I never understood people who argued the Iraq War was a play for us to control their oil fields when we really don't need them.
About Half of U.S. Petroleum Imports Come from the Western Hemisphere
Some may be surprised to learn that almost 50% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum products imports came from the Western Hemisphere (North, South, and Central America and the Caribbean including U.S. territories) during 2006. We imported only 16% of our crude oil and petroleum products from the Persian Gulf countries of Bahrain, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates. During 2007, our five biggest suppliers of crude oil and petroleum products were:
Canada (18.2%)
Mexico (11.4%)
Saudi Arabia (11.0%)
Venezuela (10.1%)
Nigeria (8.4%)
Where The US Gets Its Oil From
Another story about it from NPR
Today, the U.S. actually gets most of its imported oil from Canada and Latin America.
And many Americans might be surprised to learn that the U.S. now imports roughly the same amount of oil from Africa as it does from the Persian Gulf. African imports were a bit higher in 2010, while Persian Gulf oil accounted for a bit more last year.
Where The U.S. Gets Its Oil
Where The U.S. Gets Its Oil
Source: Energy Information Administration
Credit: Nelson Hsu / NPR
America is one of the world's largest oil producers, and close to 40 percent of U.S. oil needs are met at home. Most of the imports currently come from five countries: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela and Nigeria.
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