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re: Georgia's Name, Image, and Likeness bill signed into law by Brian Kemp
Posted on 5/11/21 at 10:29 am to tylerdurden24
Posted on 5/11/21 at 10:29 am to tylerdurden24
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Nowadays, you also have mandatory weight lifting and team related activities with compliance, nutrition, personal development (financial literacy, professionalism, etc), media training and then mandatory tutoring/study hall that takes up the whole evening after practice. The time commitment to not only stay on the team but to remain eligible and game ready well exceeds 40 hours. If you want to count tutoring as academics, you’re talking about 4 hours of class time each day from 8-Noon and about 3 hours of tutoring each evening. Sunday-Friday, that’s about 38 hours a week.
Sleep deprivation is a bitch, too.
No offense.
But it is college.
There are millions of students attending class, study sessions, keeping up with classes.
And none of that pays the students a dime. It actually costs $50+k plus living expenses in order to do that.
So millions of kids either work 1 or 2 jobs while doing their studies or take the burden of loans that they may be paying on for a decade or both.
Being a college athlete is hard as shite.
Like the military, they are told what, when, where, etc.. but like the military, their needs are met. Bills arent piling up. Their "struggles" are foreign to real life (paying rent, foos on the table, transporting to work).
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Posted on 5/11/21 at 11:14 am to meansonny
No other student has to attend tutoring on a mandatory basis and risk being suspended from their team and/or losing their scholarship because they want a break or don’t feel like it.
No other student is all but required to be awake from 5AM to 11PM every single day with a heavily regimented schedule and rigorous physical activity occupying most of the day inbetween.
There are comparisons to be made between athletes and non-athletes but most anyone can look at the two and say which is a more cumbersome college experience. Again, the only argument is does the compensation they receive match their time and labor? You can make a fair point in both directions.
Except for the guys from single family homes, from poor socioeconomic backgrounds, and/or are parents themselves which make up a notable portion of football and basketball populations specifically. Then there are the athletes who are on partial or no scholarship who have to either keep their grades up for HOPE/Zell or pay out of pocket themselves by taking out loans. Athletes don’t just exist in a vacuum and disconnect from their families because they have a support structure provided in Athens. Same as people in the military usually still have dependents and aren’t all just enlisted orphans looking to make a new life for themselves.
No other student is all but required to be awake from 5AM to 11PM every single day with a heavily regimented schedule and rigorous physical activity occupying most of the day inbetween.
There are comparisons to be made between athletes and non-athletes but most anyone can look at the two and say which is a more cumbersome college experience. Again, the only argument is does the compensation they receive match their time and labor? You can make a fair point in both directions.
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Like the military, they are told what, when, where, etc.. but like the military, their needs are met. Bills arent piling up.
Except for the guys from single family homes, from poor socioeconomic backgrounds, and/or are parents themselves which make up a notable portion of football and basketball populations specifically. Then there are the athletes who are on partial or no scholarship who have to either keep their grades up for HOPE/Zell or pay out of pocket themselves by taking out loans. Athletes don’t just exist in a vacuum and disconnect from their families because they have a support structure provided in Athens. Same as people in the military usually still have dependents and aren’t all just enlisted orphans looking to make a new life for themselves.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 11:42 am to tylerdurden24
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No other student has to attend tutoring on a mandatory basis and risk being suspended from their team and/or losing their scholarship because they want a break or don’t feel like it.
Lose the scholarship... lose money. Are you saying that genpop students are not required to study to stay on academic scholarship or to avoid academic probation? This isnt high school. This is college. Classes are fast paced and the university wont play a violin for any student who doesnt put in the work.
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No other student is all but required to be awake from 5AM to 11PM every single day with a heavily regimented schedule and rigorous physical activity occupying most of the day inbetween
You seem to miss the part about
1) having to pay money to attend college. Lots of it.
2) having to pay money for housing/food/transportation.
Genpop students would take the athletic schedule/offer 9 times out of 10.
Why do you think athletic scholarships are so in demand? Because it is worse than worrying about not enrolling in another semester because you dont have an extra $5k in the savings account of a 19 year old? Because it is worse than worrying about an eviction for rent? Because it is worse than trying to figure out how to stretch $20 to feed oneself for every meal over the next 7 days? Because it is worse than the fear of losing a job because reliable transportation is no longer reliable or affordable?
Life is hard. It is hard on student athletes. But genpop wishes they had it that way. You dont see 18 year olds voluntarily turning down the athletic scholarship and opting to pay the tuition/room/board themselves very often.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 11:54 am to tylerdurden24
quote:
Except for the guys from single family homes, from poor socioeconomic backgrounds, and/or are parents themselves which make up a notable portion of football and basketball populations specifically. Then there are the athletes who are on partial or no scholarship who have to either keep their grades up for HOPE/Zell or pay out of pocket themselves by taking out loans. Athletes don’t just exist in a vacuum and disconnect from their families because they have a support structure provided in Athens. Same as people in the military usually still have dependents and aren’t all just enlisted orphans looking to make a new life for themselves.
Because 18/19 years old have kids, they are being taken advantage of by the athletic scholarship system?
Is that your argument?
As for difficult home lives, that is exactly my point. Tuition, room, board, and spending cash is a blessing. Not a curse. It is winning the lottery.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 11:57 am to meansonny
quote:is it advisable? Sure. Are they going to lose HOPE if they go downtown instead of attending tutoring for a week? Nope.
Are you saying that genpop students are not required to study to stay on academic scholarship or to avoid academic probation?
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This isnt high school. This is college. Classes are fast paced and the university wont play a violin for any student who doesnt put in the work.
Yeah, I know. I went. Twice.
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Genpop students would take the athletic schedule/offer 9 times out of 10.
No they wouldn’t
they would take the perks, sure, but the actual work that has to be put in and the lack of personal freedom makes guys who are conditioned to it quit, let alone a random student. quote:
Why do you think athletic scholarships are so in demand?
Because it relaxes admissions standards, offers an opportunity for higher education to students who may not otherwise have the opportunity, and creates a pathway for some sports toward professional competition.
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But genpop wishes they had it that way. You dont see 18 year olds voluntarily turning down the athletic scholarship and opting to pay the tuition/room/board themselves very often.
You’re creating a false equivalence here. It’s not be an athlete and prosper or be a genpop student and suffer. Many (if not most) college students do just fine making rent, eating well, and paying for school. Are there homeless genpop students or students struggling to get by? Of course. But it’s a decided minority. If you want to poll the houses on Milledge Ave or any of the dozen or so new off campus mega housing complexes around Athens if they’d like to give up their current situation to be held to all the same standards as a college athlete in exchange for their tuition to be paid and a housing stipend then let me know how they respond.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 12:02 pm to meansonny
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Because 18/19 years old have kids, they are being taken advantage of by the athletic scholarship system?
Is that your argument?
Yep, that’s it. You fricking nailed it and are in no way being obtuse.
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As for difficult home lives, that is exactly my point. Tuition, room, board, and spending cash is a blessing. Not a curse. It is winning the lottery.
it’s better than sitting at home in a bad situation but it’s hardly the lottery. The lottery means you spent a dollar on a ticket and got lucky. These people work their asses off in high school to get recruited so they can keep working their arse off to ge through college. Stop making it out to be a dream existence just because some of the perks are nice and exclusive to this population. It’s a great opportunity but it hardly guarantees anything in the way of personal or familial comfort or success longtermPosted on 5/11/21 at 12:22 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
You’re creating a false equivalence here. It’s not be an athlete and prosper or be a genpop student and suffer. Many (if not most) college students do just fine making rent, eating well, and paying for school.
The equivalency is still there.
I can say that student athletes do just fine.
What you cannot say is that student athletes regularly walk away from their obligations/perks in exchange for the opportunity as a 19 year old to pay his/her own way.
What i can say is that a student offered a scholarship will almost never turn it down. Even with the obligations tied to the scholarship. Hell... even families with expectations of paying a child's school years does not turn down said scholarships.
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If you want to poll the houses on Milledge Ave or any of the dozen or so new off campus mega housing complexes around Athens if they’d like to give up their current situation to be held to all the same standards as a college athlete in exchange for their tuition to be paid and a housing stipend then let me know how they respond.
You know a lot of students who turn down tuition, room, board, and spending money?
Posted on 5/11/21 at 12:30 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
it’s better than sitting at home in a bad situation but it’s hardly the lottery. The lottery means you spent a dollar on a ticket and got lucky. These people work their asses off in high school to get recruited so they can keep working their arse off to ge through college. Stop making it out to be a dream existence just because some of the perks are nice and exclusive to this population. It’s a great opportunity but it hardly guarantees anything in the way of personal or familial comfort or success longterm
The "lottery" analogy is twofold.
1) it is genetic. Plenty of nongifted athletes have the drive and work ethic. But there is an aspect very much outside of their control. Especially when you get to D1 levels.
2) it is a probability analogy. You have 180,000 D1 athletes on scholarship. You have 20M students enrolled in college.
You are absolutely correct that 1) the scholarship is earned 2) the requirements after enrolling are extremely difficult. Both mentally and physically. 3) it doesnt guarantee long term success
But 1)it guarantees tuition for the semester 2)it guarantees a roof/bed 3) guarantees food 4)guarantees someone else looking out for accountability (tutors, grad assistants, academic classes most often completed by athletes).
Doing that for oneself as a 19 year old is impressive. Scholarship or no scholarship.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 12:30 pm to meansonny
You do know most students at UGA are on Hope or Zell or some sort of academic scholarship, right? They have a better or equal opportunity for financial aid on the table.
Now if you want to make that argument on behalf of all the genpop students at Georgia State or a DII then be my guest but you’d also have to acknowledge that the perks of being an athlete at those schools are greatly diminished relative to the perks of playing at UGA
Now if you want to make that argument on behalf of all the genpop students at Georgia State or a DII then be my guest but you’d also have to acknowledge that the perks of being an athlete at those schools are greatly diminished relative to the perks of playing at UGA
Posted on 5/11/21 at 12:40 pm to tylerdurden24
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You do know most students at UGA are on Hope or Zell or some sort of academic scholarship, right? They have a better or equal opportunity for financial aid on the table.
How is the hope scholarship a better financial aid opportunity than a football player?
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Georgia State
Georgia State is D1. What are you expecting different at State than UGA?
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DII
Yeah. Benefits at DII and DIII are diminished. Are they more or less abused by the system and requirements?
Posted on 5/11/21 at 1:11 pm to meansonny
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How is the hope scholarship a better financial aid opportunity than a football player?
You mean how is having 85% of your tuition covered and not having to do any of the same stuff as an athlete a better opportunity? And students who receive Zell covers 100% of tuition FWIW.
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Georgia State is D1. What are you expecting different at State than UGA?
Well for starters, State is an easier academic school than UGA and there is far less pressure to succeed athletically, let alone less day to day, hour by hour expectations on the part of the athletic department due to diminished resources. Revenues and fanbases for both programs aren’t comparable and therefore that pressure to achieve athletically isn’t being placed equally on coaches and players at both schools.
There’s a tangible difference between the athlete experience of students at a P5 program versus G5; rendering it all down to DI isn’t a realistic approach.
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Yeah. Benefits at DII and DIII are diminished. Are they more or less abused by the system and requirements?
DIII has no benefits for playing so we can leave them out entirely. DII (Valdosta State, for example) is held to a far lower standard academically (literally the NCAA rules aren’t as stringent for DII) nevermind that the revenue outcomes for DII aren’t in the same ballpark as DI. So, to use your wording, DII athletes are “less abused by the system” and may present a more reasonable opportunity for a genpop student to switch over
This post was edited on 5/11/21 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 5/11/21 at 2:06 pm to meansonny
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What about the other 38 weeks of the year /s
Where do you get this number?
Posted on 5/11/21 at 3:56 pm to tylerdurden24
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quote:
How is the hope scholarship a better financial aid opportunity than a football player?
You mean how is having 85% of your tuition covered and not having to do any of the same stuff as an athlete a better opportunity? And students who receive Zell covers 100% of tuition FWIW.
Tuition is not the majority expense in the cost of attendance number for instate. Rent, food, transportation is a bigger number. It is as if you assume "everything is fine" on paying ones bills without understanding how hard someone has to work to pay ones bills (take home pay).
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State is an easier academic school than UGA
I had a class that i needed full at UGA and i took it at State. Agree to disagree that rigor is different. Rigor is dependent upon the major and courses required.
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pressure to achieve athletically isn’t being placed equally on coaches and players at both schools.
This is extremely subjective and i dont think i am qualified to comment. However (and this is true for academics as well as athletics), if you need external motivation to do your best then you are living wrong.
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DIII has no benefits for playing so we can leave them out entirely.
So someone who has the same morning workouts, classes, study sessions, film reviews, practices, away games, etc.. but does it because he/she loves the sport and doesnt get any financial compensation does not sway you at all that athletic scholarships are a great asset for athletes?
Posted on 5/11/21 at 4:41 pm to Peter Buck
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quote:
What about the other 38 weeks of the year /s
Where do you get this number?
It was sarcasm.
But 52 weeks minus 14 gamedays.
A lot of your "time" was built around travel/game requirements.
I could add more sarcasm about all of the guys and gals at the gym before work (and paying money to do so).
Posted on 5/11/21 at 5:49 pm to meansonny
quote:
Tuition is not the majority expense in the cost of attendance number for instate. Rent, food, transportation is a bigger number. It is as if you assume "everything is fine" on paying ones bills without understanding how hard someone has to work to pay ones bills (take home pay).
It’s as if you assume the modern traditional college student at a school like UGA all have to work 1 or 2 jobs to survive a 4 year degree pursuance when the vast majority have their living expenses subsidized by their parents, loans, or need-based scholarships. Some work jobs but a lot don’t.
For athletes, those living expenses are subsidized in full during their first year living on campus via an athletic scholarship (assuming they have one) but turn into housing stipends that may only cover partial rent depending on if/where they live off campus. There is no transportation coverage so car and gas is their own to deal with. Most cover the difference through family, Pell grant, or Hope scholarship money.
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I had a class that i needed full at UGA and i took it at State. Agree to disagree that rigor is different. Rigor is dependent upon the major and courses required
Which can be true in certain circumstances. But in general, classes at State are considered to be far and away easier than at UGA and not just based on anecdotal evidence.
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So someone who has the same morning workouts, classes, study sessions, film reviews, practices, away games, etc.. but does it because he/she loves the sport and doesnt get any financial compensation does not sway you at all that athletic scholarships are a great asset for athletes?
I don’t think I ever said it wasn’t a great asset? My entire argument has been whether or not it’s enough compensation for the labor and time required and, somehow, whether or not an average student would drop everything to become an athlete in exchange for those benefits (which is a bizarre hypothetical). Truthfully I’m not even sure how it got here from the initial NIL discussion of the thread.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 7:15 pm to tylerdurden24
I know I am "old" but I knew very few people who didn't work through UGA. It was kind of a stigma to not have some kind of job.
Sure there are rich kids that don't, but I don't think that's a fair brush to paint the gen-pops with.
It's like you are writing a shitty Tyler Perry movie in your mind where all the genpops are driving brand new cars and living in luxury penthouses (they do exist) vs the poor lowly "socioeconomic" student athlete that has to work ten times harder for the same "privilege".
It's not that your point is wrong, it's that your point is based on a faulty foundation of fact.
Sure there are rich kids that don't, but I don't think that's a fair brush to paint the gen-pops with.
It's like you are writing a shitty Tyler Perry movie in your mind where all the genpops are driving brand new cars and living in luxury penthouses (they do exist) vs the poor lowly "socioeconomic" student athlete that has to work ten times harder for the same "privilege".
It's not that your point is wrong, it's that your point is based on a faulty foundation of fact.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 7:28 pm to deeprig9
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It's not that your point is wrong, it's that your point is based on a faulty foundation of fact.
Except it’s not. I don’t think y’all realize how much the typical college experience has changed at UGA from 2000-2010, let alone since the 90s. A lot of current students work jobs but relatively few do so because it’s their only means of surviving while getting through school. Now a lot of students would probably be better off actually working their way through school instead of incurring crazy debt postgrad but that’s not what they do because many don’t necessarily need to.
quote:
According to a 2017 analysis by The New York Times, the median family income of a UGA student is $129,800. This ranks fifth out of 27 highly selective public colleges in the country. Georgia Tech comes in slightly higher at the fourth spot — $130,000 — while the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor tops the rankings. Just 3.8% of UGA students came from the bottom 20% of households by family income. The study also dives into UGA’s overall mobility index, which evaluates the possibility of a UGA student rising up two or more income quintiles. UGA’s index was 10%.
The majority of students come from wealthy households — 59% of students from the top 20% of families by household income. At 5.1%, UGA has the third highest percentage of students whose families come from the top 1% when compared to the 26 other colleges. 59% of students come from the top 20%.
This post was edited on 5/11/21 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 5/11/21 at 9:35 pm to meansonny
quote:
It was sarcasm.
But 52 weeks minus 14 gamedays.
A lot of your "time" was built around travel/game requirements.
I could add more sarcasm about all of the guys and gals at the gym before work (and paying money to do so).
Well, pre season (late July through August) was a lot more than 40 hours. It was all day..starting at 6am and going into the evening. Making it through 3 a days was mentally and physically brutal. You had to prepare all Summer to survive it.
After regular season, you went home for a few days and then spent most of Christmas break practicing. After the bowl game, you went pretty much into Winter workouts, which was 6:00 am weight lifting and afternoon running. Then you go into Spring Ball, then exams, then Summer School and Summer workouts, then you go home for a week and then 3 a days. All this shite was mandatory. To compare it to being a clerk at Kroger and recreationally lifting means you don’t understand.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 9:40 pm to Peter Buck
If it's too hard then quit.
Posted on 5/11/21 at 9:44 pm to deeprig9
Aftco sent me a catalog and a sticker in the mail btw. Wondering where to place the sticker
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