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ACL Surgery

Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:22 am
Posted by Cobb Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
9804 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:22 am
Seems that, once a player has ACL surgery, they don’t usually have problems with that knee again (ie: Edwards, Gurley, Chubb). Should ZW’s knees be stronger than ever after ACL surgery?
Posted by Broncothor
Member since Jul 2014
3050 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:38 am to
We can rebuild them. Better than they were before, better, faster, stronger.
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:41 am to
quote:

Seems that, once a player has ACL surgery, they don’t usually have problems with that knee again (ie: Edwards, Gurley, Chubb). Should ZW’s knees be stronger than ever after ACL surgery?


All comes down to the rehab/recovery... NC52 likely has some thoughts to share here, but yes, ACL surgery has gotten better over the years, and the repaired/reconstructed area is often stronger than what was there originally. In theory, ZW's legs should be in better shape once fully recovered, but keep in mind there are a myriad of other things you can do to frick up your knee, so let's not start tempting fate here.

Also, temper expectations for what you would see out of ZW in 2019... Fortunately, we shouldn't need him to carry a heavy load this season... just get back to form and then ball out in 2020.
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
25876 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:02 am to
I basically expect White to be good to go week 1 unless some other injury happens. ACL injuries were a much bigger deal 10 years ago. He might be a bit rusty, but I don’t see any reason his knees would be an issue structurally.
Posted by Porter Osborne Jr
Member since Sep 2012
39994 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:13 am to
It will come down to his trust in his knee. Seems like guys play well their first year back but get back to 100% the next year.
Posted by DawgRff
Snellville Ga
Member since Jul 2012
6309 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:17 am to
quote:

Fortunately, we shouldn't need him to carry a heavy load this season... just get back to form and then ball out in 2020.


I don't agree. Last year Swift was not 100% to start the first half of the season. Anything could happen as it has in the past and we need quality dept at running back. The schedule is setup nicely for Zeus to get a few carries to knock off the rust before the Notre Dame game.
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44830 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:18 am to
quote:

Seems like guys play well their first year back but get back to 100% the next year.


Unless you're from another planet like Adrian Peterson, this is usually how it goes.
Posted by NCDawg52
Atlanta, GA
Member since Dec 2014
3151 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:22 am to
Often times more myth than fact when it comes to Knee Injury, specifically ACL rupture.

Per current literature, general retear rates for the same ACL in an affected athlete are between 6-13%, while contralateral (read: the other one) tear rates vary much more between 2-24%. Median results, especially when giving more weight to more recent studies, show reinjury rate to consistently be in the single digits. Notably, the literature is clear that ACL, and the frequently associated meniscus injuries, are a very strong indicator of future knee arthritis problems, with the prevalence being well over 50% in nearly all reviews.

As far as the surgical techniques themselves, improvements have certainly been made over the last few decades. The biggest changes were brought on by the rise of arthroscopic as opposed to open techniques. Take a look at the knee of someone who had ACL reconstruction in the 80's, and they will have a long scar from their distal thigh, across the kneecap, and down to the shin bone. Examine the knee of Zamir White or any other person who has had surgery recently, and you will find no more than two small puncture scars and perhaps a ~1in incision.

There are lots of variations in technique in terms of sourcing the ligament graft, preparation of the graft, nature and angle of the fixation within the joint, etc. Every surgeon, and every med device company ( ) will have their own preferences, but the literature suggests that results are good with a variety of techniques, and that while small pros and cons exist, outcomes are largely consistent across the spectrum of accepted technical nuances.

The biggest recent developments in terms of accelerated return to play for athletes has been increased understanding of rehabilitation protocols. There are hundreds if not thousands of orthopedic surgeons in the US who can perform an excellent ACL reconstruction, but the long term successful return to play of the patient hinges on the safety, quality, and rigor of the rehab. When it comes to that, we should all feel proud to have Ron Courson at UGA, as he is one of the best in the world in this department.

To address your initial question as to whether a surgically reconstructed knee is stronger than ever after ACL surgery, it depends on what you mean. If you are referring strictly to the tensile strength of the ligament, then yes, it is plausible that a fully incorporated and grown ligament graft could be stronger. But, if you are referring to the overall mechanics and integrity of the knee, it is much harder to say. Often times, the lengthy prehab and rehab processes help athletes develop and balance their musculature surrounding the joint, which helps address bio-mechanical issues that may have predisposed them to injury in the first place.

Notably, the ACLs that (most) people are born with contain nerve fibers that trigger hamstring contraction during the most critical portions of the gait cycle. At this point in time, no one has figured out a reliable way to regrow these nerves or restore this neuro-muscular mechanism. Much of the current research is around the use of stem cells, PRP, and other biologics to try and regrow/augment native tissue. Here is a good abstract outlining some of the current issues in the space.

TL;DR: sorry for the novel. The answer to your question is "kind of"
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 10:33 am
Posted by Porter Osborne Jr
Member since Sep 2012
39994 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:22 am to
quote:

Unless you're from another planet like Adrian Peterson, this is usually how it goes.


Hell, I thought Chubb was from another planet but he didn't seem like his self until his senior year.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17476 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:39 am to
quote:

Hell, I thought Chubb was from another planet but he didn't seem like his self until his senior year.


I wonder how much of that was mental
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
25876 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:49 am to
quote:

Hell, I thought Chubb was from another planet but he didn't seem like his self until his senior year.

That was a different and more significant injury though.

ETA: it also occurred about two months deeper into the previous season than White’s most recent injury.
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 10:50 am
Posted by NCDawg52
Atlanta, GA
Member since Dec 2014
3151 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 11:04 am to
Chubb's injury was primarily to his PCL with far more collateral damage than either of White's have been reported to have.

PCL is far less common, and is typically a longer recovery time. ACL RTP timeline usually 7-9 months. PCL usually 9-11 months.
Posted by Whiznot
Albany, GA
Member since Oct 2013
7003 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 11:13 am to
I didn't think that Chubb was 100% back senior year either. Maybe it was mental but senior year Nick didn't seem to have the great jump cut that he used last year with the Browns. Nick's highlights with the Browns were amazing.
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

TL;DR: sorry for the novel. The answer to your question is "kind of"


I figured you'd come in and drop some more specific knowledge than I would have been able to without spending some time researching.
Posted by BigDaddyDawg
Washington D.C.
Member since Sep 2017
1328 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:04 pm to
speaking strictly from personal experience. (i've had 3 acl reconstructions)

as NC52 stated, the technology has come a long way.

my first acl was a 15 month recovery , my last i was playing again in 3 months.

that being said, i think you need to be two years out before you feel like 'you' again. Some of that is mental, heck alot of it...but if you are thinking about cutting instead of instinctively cutting you are slower, all i can add.
Posted by BoogerSykes
Buckeye, AZ
Member since Sep 2012
1413 posts
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:26 pm to
A repaired ACL can't stop the arthritis from sitting in though
Posted by lambertdawg
South Forsyth County
Member since Sep 2012
912 posts
Posted on 7/19/19 at 5:53 am to
quote:

my last i was playing again in 3 months.


Then you’re not very smart.
Posted by BigDaddyDawg
Washington D.C.
Member since Sep 2017
1328 posts
Posted on 7/19/19 at 6:49 am to
quote:

Then you’re not very smart


probably should have read 'active again'... running straight lines and walking curves.

but thanks for your insight
Posted by BoozeDawg
ATLANNUH
Member since Sep 2018
1465 posts
Posted on 7/19/19 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Unless you're from another planet like Adrian Peterson, this is usually how it goes.


yeah that was insane!!
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